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What do I need to be saved from?

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
A Buddhist might say "ignorance."
Four Bodhisattva Vows:

Sentient beings are numberless; I vow to save them all.

Anxiety and Hate, Delusive Desires are inexhaustible; I vow to put an end to them.

The dharmas are boundless; I vow to master them.

The Buddha's Way is unsurpassable; I vow to attain it.




Just as all the previous Sugatas, the Buddhas
Generated the mind of enlightenment
And accomplished all the stages
Of the Bodhisattva training,
So will I too, for the sake of all beings,
Generate the mind of enlightenment
And accomplish all the stages
Of the Bodhisattva training.

You help save others by working on yourself as an example.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Why are christians so often selfish, then? And what is "sinfulness"?
I would say sin or sinfulness is anything short of God's perfect.
Christians are so often selfish because there is a battle going on between their new spiritual life in Christ and their sinful old nature of the flesh. It is a daily choice and challenge to submit one's will to God which all Christians must deal with, even the apostle Paul...

For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans 7:15-25
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
Have you read "God against the Gods," The Ragin Pagan?
I have not; book or thread?

I would say sin or sinfulness is anything short of God's perfect.
Okay, so human nature. How to beat that, eh?

Christians are so often selfish because there is a battle going on between their new spiritual life in Christ and their sinful old nature of the flesh.
And when the two meet? Say, for instance, refusing others their right to worship gods aside from yours?
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Well, waaay back when, Christianity actually used to play with others quite nicely. Temples in Rome offered depictions that served as that of Jesus, Orpheus, and Apollo, and everyone got along fine.

Then Christianity became the state religion. And then the only religion.

But how do you enforce monotheism? People seem to have a tendency towards polytheism (if they have a theistic inclination,) so it's quite hard to insist that there's only one god. Amenhotep tried introducing punishments and outlawing, but Christianity took it one step further. Fear.

Those other gods that you feel an inclination towards? They're not really gods, they're demons and devils; agents of Satan trying to turn you from the One True Path. They're out for your soul, which is the part of you that lives forever, and if they get it... well, you'll suffer forever. Turn to this god, because he can stop this from happening.

But why go through all that trouble? Simply put, because monotheism is a theological aberration. It requires constant verification and affirmation. And we truly see this not just in America, but the world over whenever the stage is broadened. Every time non-christians gain a little bit of ground, we see a flood of movies and plays and politicians touting christianity, reminding us of those things that we need to fear. "The Devil's out to get you, godless nations assault us in their anger and sin; God will save you and God bless America." We even see it here, when there's new of Paganism gaining social ground. Even though it's decades away from anything that christianity enjoys.

So that's what you need saved from; christianity's social insecurity and tentative grip on society. It's not your soul being saved, but their illusion of legitimacy.

Reading history it looks as if Christians were among the first atheists. That is to say, the first group to start denying the existence of other people's gods. Prior to this others might have ridiculed your god as being weak or ineffectual, but they rarely if ever completely denied that your god(s) even existed. I find it rather ironic in that many Christians tend to be the first to take offense if you suggest that their god isn't real.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Christians are so often selfish because there is a battle going on between their new spiritual life in Christ and their sinful old nature of the flesh.
This "selfish old nature of the flesh", where does that come from if not Almighty God? We are all born with it, innocent as a newborn baby is. Nobody can do anything about it either, except to try and teach young people not to behave the way God made them. Rather, we try to teach them why less natural behavior is better.
Tom
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
From the blazing fire.

Again the no-brain thing. If Allah really wanted to save us from the fire he's going to throw us into forever if we don't face-plant the ground and praise him at least once in this world then why doesn't he just do it? It's not like a lack of consent has stopped him doing other stuff before.
 
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Daisies4me

Active Member
I've occasionally been informed by members of certain religious traditions that I need to be saved from something. What is it that I need to be saved from?
(quote)

That is the question I have often asked those imagining themselves to be 'saved'---- I would like to hear the answers, also.....
good question
 

ClearPath

Member
Premium Member
"it is an individualistic journey"

Ya I don't buy that nonsense either, there are herds of Christians all yammering the same things over and over. It is far more individualistic to break away from the herd.
I agree, however that is for that person to decide.
How they interpret the Word of God shapes their journey - I do not believe in a set path.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
This "selfish old nature of the flesh", where does that come from if not Almighty God? We are all born with it, innocent as a newborn baby is. Nobody can do anything about it either, except to try and teach young people not to behave the way God made them. Rather, we try to teach them why less natural behavior is better.
Tom
That is not my perspective, nor do I think that is what the scriptures indicate. In the Genesis account, God in the beginning, created humans good and innocent...until they trusted self instead of their Creator and fell into disobedience and sin...thus the sinful nature came to exist. And according to the scriptures, there is no remedy, such as teaching young people better behavior. That is what religions and laws have been doing for centuries and while it may produce outward change temporarily it does not change one's heart or nature. The scriptures reveal that God's way is to put to death the sinful self and give new life in Christ, A process which begins here on earth when one places their trust in Jesus as their Savior, but is not completed until one leaves the flesh and enters the heavenly eternal realm.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Okay, so human nature. How to beat that, eh?


And when the two meet? Say, for instance, refusing others their right to worship gods aside from yours?

I don't get the exact meaning of your first question. As to the second, others certainly have the freedom to worship any gods they choose, at least in this country and around here. I can't and don't want to refuse anyone that right.
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
I don't get the exact meaning of your first question.
What you call "sinfulness" is human nature. Unavoidable. Which, also, backs up my assessment of fear and adds the secondary imposition of guilt as a means to control the masses and ensure the validity of your views.

others certainly have the freedom to worship any gods they choose, at least in this country and around here. I can't and don't want to refuse anyone that right.
You might not, but many other christians do, and will. Is it spirituality or selfishness when they use the bible as justification for denying others their right to worship?
 
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