What do people think "atheist" means?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

And which ones are those? Who decides?

In the case of the word "agnostic", Thomas Henry Huxley is the person who decides.

 

[ArtieE]

And which ones are those? Who decides?

The people of course. The people have decided by mutual agreement that when a person says he's an atheist that means he doesn't believe gods exist.

 

[ArtieE]

If that is true, don't you think that it is strange that the words started to be used differently when ideological atheists started to use them for ideological reasons?

Why strange? Word meanings change for many different reasons.

Now people can't simply be agnostic any more,

Why not?

because an agnostic is actually an atheist,

No he isn't he's just a person who doesn't know whether gods exist or not. An "agnostic atheist" is also an atheist.

even if they don't want to be and consider it illogical.

Nobody forces them to be atheists.

Someone will post a chart and tell them, "see the chart tells you that you are an atheist, live with it.

Which chart?

Just so babies and rocks can be considered atheists, which is seen as some sort of tremendous validation of atheism, a new category of implicit atheism was created. The problem is claiming rocks are atheists is stupid,

So why do it?

and amongst humans, how can you tell the difference between an implicit atheist and an implicit theist?

You really don't know? You can only become a theist not be one implicitly.

Feel free to keep using the definition yourself, but don't expect everyone to adopt an ideological redefinition that clearly makes the word far less useful than it previously was.

I am using it, so do most atheists, and so do American Atheists. I don't expect everyone to adopt it.

Unfortunately, 'new' atheists ruin atheism for the rest of us.

"The rest of us" being people who use the over 2000 year old theist definition that describes them as fools, corrupt etc.? Yes, that is much better definition of some. "Psalms 53:1 The fool has said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that does good."

 

[Bunyip]

The people of course. The people have decided by mutual agreement that when a person says he's an atheist that means he doesn't believe gods exist.

I must have missed that meeting. When did this happen?

 

[ArtieE]

If that's the case, why did you choose to disregard the definition of "agnostic" that was given by the person who coined the term?

Because many people have elaborated on the meaning since then and now it's differently understood.

 

[Willamena]

The people of course. The people have decided by mutual agreement that when a person says he's an atheist that means he doesn't believe gods exist.

Nobody asked me....

 

[Bunyip]

Because many people have elaborated on the meaning since then and now it's differently understood.

Well like many words, it is understood by different people in different ways.

 

[Bunyip]

Nobody asked me....

We must be out of the loop, I didn't get the memo either.

 

[ArtieE]

I must have missed that meeting. When did this happen?

It happens over time. And maybe some person(s) argue so efficiently for why a word should have a certain meaning that most people adapt the meaning because they understand that his reasoning makes sense.

 

[ArtieE]

Nobody asked me....

So exactly how did you come to know that when a person says he's an atheist you know you're dealing with a person who doesn't believe in gods? Did somebody tell you or did you learn it at school or pick it up from a book?

 

[Bunyip]

It happens over time. And maybe some person(s) argue so efficiently for why a word should have a certain meaning that most people adapt the meaning because they understand that his reasoning makes sense.

You're kidding right?
The opposite is true - the world is a big place, word usages tend to get more diverse over time, they do not resolve into a single universal usage. Why should 'atheism' have a certain meaning just because you say so?
Why can't other people apply whatever usage they think fits their position best?

 

[ArtieE]

We must be out of the loop, I didn't get the memo either.

You didn't? So when was the first time you heard that an atheist was a person who didn't believe gods exist and how did you learn that?

 

[Bunyip]

You didn't? So when was the first time you heard that an atheist was a person who didn't believe gods exist and how did you learn that?

I don't remember when I first heard that particular usage, I think it was from you. It is not a common definition, and I don't think it is as useful or coherrent as many of the other definitions of 'atheism' that are commonly applied.

I don't think it is a very accurate definition of atheism either by the way, to many exceptions for it to apply broadly, or reflect peoples positions meaningfully.

 

[ArtieE]

You're kidding right?
The opposite is true - the world is a big place, word usages tend to get more diverse over time, they do not resolve into a single universal usage. Why should 'atheism' have a certain meaning just because you say so?

It doesn't. It has a certain meaning because most atheists say so, because American Atheists say so, because everybody knows that an atheist is a person who doesn't believe gods exist. You can scream and shout against that as much as you like but it won't help. I bet if you were the only person in the world not using that definition you would still carry on.

 

[Bunyip]

It doesn't. It has a certain meaning because most atheists say so,

That is simply a false claim. You have no such study of most atheists to support it. That is what we call a ' completely made up fact'.

Because American Atheists say so

Who cares? What authority do they have? None.

, because everybody knows that an atheist is a person who doesn't believe gods exist.

Another false claim. People interpret the word in many different ways

You can scream and shout against that as much as you like but it won't help. I bet if you were the only person in the world not using that definition you would still carry on.

People will continue to apply all manner of different definitions, just as they always have and always will.

 

[Willamena]

So exactly how did you come to know that when a person says he's an atheist you know you're dealing with a person who doesn't believe in gods? Did somebody tell you or did you learn it at school or pick it up from a book?

Any or all of those.

 

[ArtieE]

I don't think it is a very accurate definition of atheism either by the way, to many exceptions for it to apply broadly, or reflect peoples positions meaningfully.

There are no exceptions. All atheists don't believe gods exist.

 

[Bunyip]

There are no exceptions. All atheists don't believe gods exist.

What is the point of just making up pretend facts you know you can not support? You know thatbis a false claim, so why make it?

 

[ArtieE]

Any or all of those.

Oh. So this is the common understanding of what an atheist is then?

 

[Willamena]

Well like many words, it is understood by different people in different ways.

It doesn't. It has a certain meaning because most atheists say so, because American Atheists say so, because everybody knows that an atheist is a person who doesn't believe gods exist. You can scream and shout against that as much as you like but it won't help. I bet if you were the only person in the world not using that definition you would still carry on.

You are both right.