What do you feel is wrong with Islam?

[Popeyesays]

you missed out akhenaton and joseph smith or do you get to pick this rather excusive club, and i do want to understand but it just doesnt make sense christianity and islam are incompatible to name just two

To your eyes perhaps, but Muhammed makes it quite clear you cannot BE a Muslim if you do not revere Christ, Moses and Abraham at least.

Akhnaten? I don't know. We do not have any of his revelation to study so it cannot be said he IS a Manifestation of God. Quetzalcoatl MAY have been a Prophet of God and all real evidence of his revelation is also gone. We will not ever know.

Joseph Smith? Well, we have no comment on Joseph Smith from the Bab or Baha`u'llah and SMith NEVER made a revelation in his own name in the first place. He merely recovered the book of Revelation of someone else ostensibly. King James may have been the patron of those who translated the Bible into English, but he was not the author of the Bible in the first place, was he?

I don't get to choose. Baha`u'llah mentions several as Manifestations of God and Prophets of God (making a distinction between the two terms), but He does not mention Akhenaten, or Smith. He does not name them such, so I do not have the choice to name them as such.

Regards,
Scott

 

[kai]

To your eyes perhaps, but Muhammed makes it quite clear you cannot BE a Muslim if you do not revere Christ, Moses and Abraham at least.

Akhnaten? I don't know. We do not have any of his revelation to study so it cannot be said he IS a Manifestation of God. Quetzalcoatl MAY have been a Prophet of God and all real evidence of his revelation is also gone. We will not ever know.

Joseph Smith? Well, we have no comment on Joseph Smith from the Bab or Baha`u'llah and SMith NEVER made a revelation in his own name in the first place. He merely recovered the book of Revelation of someone else ostensibly. King James may have been the patron of those who translated the Bible into English, but he was not the author of the Bible in the first place, was he?

I don't get to choose. Baha`u'llah mentions several as Manifestations of God and Prophets of God (making a distinction between the two terms), but He does not mention Akhenaten, or Smith. He does not name them such, so I do not have the choice to name them as such.

Regards,
Scott

but as a bahai you cannot accept that the way to salvation is through jesus christ so that will always seperate you from christians,muslims do not accept the bab or baha'u'llah and say mohamed was the last of the prophets , this is what my eyes see and my ears hear

 

[Popeyesays]

but as a bahai you cannot accept that the way to salvation is through jesus christ so that will always seperate you from christians,muslims do not accept the bab or baha'u'llah and say mohamed was the last of the prophets , this is what my eyes see and my ears hear

We are not interested in salvation, that's a given. Muslims treat Baha`i as the Sanhedrin treat4ed Jesus. The Sanhedrin was wrong. Islamic attitude toward later revelation is also wrong, it is certainly not Quranic in origin.

Regards,
Scott

 

[kai]

We are not interested in salvation, that's a given. Muslims treat Baha`i as the Sanhedrin treat4ed Jesus. The Sanhedrin was wrong. Islamic attitude toward later revelation is also wrong, it is certainly not Quranic in origin.

Regards,
Scott

but you all have the same headmaster in this school, i take your point ,i cannot accept it, as i do not know enough, but thank you for a small insight into bahai

 

[TashaN]

yes thank you for pointing out my mistake

Welcome.

my point is more about worship than humanity itself its about the forms of worship given to jews and then to christians and then to muslims and then to ba hais and then to mormons ---but i may have strayed to far , i think you know what i mean

i get the "one" bit i dont understand the change in methods of worship or essentials to reach paradise

I don't think there was much differences, except for the differences which was invented by Jews and Christians in term of new kind of worships which their prophets didn't not teach.

This thread below might help you, alot.

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...-did-all-prophets-including-jesus-prayed.html

 

[TashaN]

So wouldn't it be fair to say that the muslim god sent down the message of Bahais to"set" muslims "straight" ?

And that's based on what?

Prophet Mohammed told us that he was the last Prophet and Messenger of Allah. The pervious prophets didn't claim so, period.

In other words; could it be possible that the muslim god revealed the bahai teaching because the society 1400 years ago is different from the society now?

Nope. The essential message of Islam is perfect in it's core and been desingned to fit in all times, unlike the pervious messages which was for a specfic time and for a specific people.

 

[Popeyesays]

And that's based on what?

Prophet Mohammed told us that he was the last Prophet and Messenger of Allah. The pervious prophets didn't claim so, period.



Nope. The essential message of Islam is perfect in it's core and been desingned to fit in all times, unlike the pervious messages which was for a specfic time and for a specific people.

It is not necessary for one Messenger to "set straight" another. Each is and was perfect.

Muhammed said He was the Seal of the Prophets, not the last. Seal means many things.

Regards,

Scott

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

It is not necessary for one Messenger to "set straight" another. Each is and was perfect.

Muhammed said He was the Seal of the Prophets, not the last. Seal means many things.

Regards,

Scott

Well, seal of prophets means Final Prophet here. The Arabic words used are "Khatam al Nabiyeen". Check any Arabic dictionary to what does Khatam means?(check verse in Arabic[FONT=Georgia,Times New Roman,Times,serif] The Holy Quran (33:41) to see that word Khatam has been used)[/FONT]
In fact, Prophet Muhammad also declared in his farewell sermon that no Prophets will come after him.

 

[kai]

hello abu khalid and thank you for your link it seems you must answer the same questions over the years , but i must ask again .

the one god makes a covenant with Abraham and gives the law to moses, and the Jews start their worship
he sends Isa to make a new covenant and Christianity is born
he sends a new covenant with Mohamed and a new Islam is born
this is the enigma , the one all powerful god , now has three distinct factions of people and the y are getting more distant ,

the Jews carry on as if nothing has happened and follow the law given to moses .
Christianity has turned Isa into god himself so is irreconcilable to Judaism and Islam
Islam developed into what it is today and believes there are no more prophets .

so either people have misunderstood and got it all wrong or its not the same god , and how would you know if god saw this and decided to send another prophet remember he is god he can do this if he wants no one would accept his words except maybe ba hai

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

hello abu khalid and thank you for your link it seems you must answer the same questions over the years , but i must ask again .

the one god makes a covenant with Abraham and gives the law to moses, and the Jews start their worship
he sends Isa to make a new covenant and Christianity is born
he sends a new covenant with Mohamed and a new Islam is born
this is the enigma , the one all powerful god , now has three distinct factions of people and the y are getting more distant ,

the Jews carry on as if nothing has happened and follow the law given to moses .
Christianity has turned Isa into god himself so is irreconcilable to Judaism and Islam
Islam developed into what it is today and believes there are no more prophets .

so either people have misunderstood and got it all wrong or its not the same god , and how would you know if god saw this and decided to send another prophet remember he is god he can do this if he wants no one would accept his words except maybe ba hai

Well, what you have said may sound good but this is not possible. God has proclaimed in Quran that Muhammad (P.B.U.H) was the last messenger and no more messengers would be sent. However, Jesus Christ (P.B.U.H.) in his second coming will clarify doubts of Christians that he is not God (according to muslim faith).

 

[vandervalley]

Well, what you have said may sound good but this is not possible. God has proclaimed in Quran that Muhammad (P.B.U.H) was the last messenger and no more messengers would be sent. However, Jesus Christ (P.B.U.H.) in his second coming will clarify doubts of Christians that he is not God (according to muslim faith).

So before Islam was born God had sent numerous prophets over time but for some reason "God" decided 1400 years ago that it will not send any more prophets?

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

So before Islam was born God had sent numerous prophets over time but for some reason "God" decided 1400 years ago that it will not send any more prophets?

Yes, because according to Islamic faith all the previous scriptures were corrupted by man ( man's word mixed with God's) but for Quran God himself has sworn to protect it and maintain it's sanctity till end of world.

 

[DarkSun]

Why? That one is abysmally simple, Abu. I see your "Prophet" as "functionally insane" much like a "functional alcoholic" person who was also most likely a "genius". He was almost the definition of an opportunist. He understood that he was surrounded by pathetic fools and played them for all it was worth.

Do you have any proof of this, or are you just making assumptions that only serve to aggrivate people?

I'd personally go for the latter.

No, why would I. I don't seek followers, lol. I simply hope to help people think for themselves.

People do think for themselves the very moment they decide to commit to a religion.

Just as you're choosing to think for yourself by insulting another person's faith.

Who's the better person?

Ah, I love it how Muslims never miss the chance to bash the concept of Trinity, meanwhile they have their own form of Trinity -- Allah, Muhammed and Qur'an... (Father, Son & Holy Spook).

This is just a failed attampt at humour. I really don't need to reply.

Just how are the two viewpoints all that different, in reality? Frankly, I believe the only similarity between Islam and Christianity is that you both agree there is but one God.

There are far more than that.

I suggest that before you make such bold claims, you actually know what you're talking about.

No offense intended. It's just that your post annoyed me, so I responded to it.

~ DarkSun

 

[DarkSun]

because it might help and give hope to the individual but all through history it has fractured the human race as a whole.

You'll find that the scriptures from which rituals come from preach peace, compassion, hope and love.

It is human fault that has "fractured the human race."

Not religion.

From what I can see around me, it looks like humanity is changing though.

 

[kai]

You'll find that the scriptures from which rituals come from preach peace, compassion, hope and love.

It is human fault that has "fractured the human race."

Not religion.

From what I can see around me, it looks like humanity is changing though.

so is it better to take out religion or take out the human race, and from what i can see of it its going to get a whole lot worse before it gets any better

 

[DarkSun]

so is it better to take out religion or take out the human race, and from what i can see of it its going to get a whole lot worse before it gets any better

I never suggested that we do either.

I suggested that human fault was to blame. Not humanity or religion itself.

Hate, anger and aggression are not preached in any religion that I know of. They stem from people, and not from the scripture itself.

If we continue to strive to be better people, then there's no reason why things can't get better.

 

[kai]

I never suggested that we do either.

I suggested that human fault was to blame. Not humanity or religion itself.
religion is humanities fault
Hate, anger and aggression are not preached in any religion that I know of. They stem from people, and not from the scripture itself. oh yeah check this out Palestinian Media Watch - Homepage

If we continue to strive to be better people, then there's no reason why things can't get better.

an admirable outlook needing a liberal dose of realism , religious people hate each other with a vengeance ,

 

[Popeyesays]

an admirable outlook needing a liberal dose of realism , religious people hate each other with a vengeance ,

That's what is known as a bald-faced assertion. Meaning an incendiary statement offered without bothering to offer any proof.

The real truth is SOME religious people hate SOME other religious people with a vengeance. SOME OTHER religious people reach across religious lines to find common ground with SOME OTHER religious people.

SOME religious people are perfectly happy to never bother OTHER religious people. SOME regartd OTHERS with suspicion for religious reasons.

In all of these cases you will find SOMEONE using religious fervor for the purpose of gaining personal power. Their actions show they have no real religious belief at all.

Regards,

Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

I never suggested that we do either.

I suggested that human fault was to blame. Not humanity or religion itself.

Hate, anger and aggression are not preached in any religion that I know of. They stem from people, and not from the scripture itself.

If we continue to strive to be better people, then there's no reason why things can't get better.

Frubals for you!

Scott

 

[kai]

That's what is known as a bald-faced assertion. Meaning an incendiary statement offered without bothering to offer any proof.
ok i should have said in my opinion
The real truth is SOME religious people hate SOME other religious people with a vengeance. SOME OTHER religious people reach across religious lines to find common ground with SOME OTHER religious people. i would like you to show me some common ground where the abrahamic religions can sit in peace with each other

SOME religious people are perfectly happy to never bother OTHER religious people. SOME regartd OTHERS with suspicion for religious reasons. i agree

In all of these cases you will find SOMEONE using religious fervor for the purpose of gaining personal power. Their actions show they have no real religious belief at all.
thats whats known as a bold-faced assertion meaning an incendiary statement offered without bothering to offer any proof
Regards,

Scott

it takes religion to make a good man do bad things