What do you feel is wrong with Islam?

[Popeyesays]

it takes religion to make a good man do bad things

Utter nonsense! Painting everybody with one brush stroke is the worst form of propaganda.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

On a local level we have The Interfaith Alliance which meets twice a month and representatives from several Christian denominations, the Edmond Mosque, the city's Gujawara (Sikh center), and the Buddhist and Hindu temples--and the Baha`i local spiritual assemblies.

We sponsor several events each year targeting adults and youth.

Regards,
Scott

 

[kai]

Utter nonsense! Painting everybody with one brush stroke is the worst form of propaganda.

Regards,
Scott

well we will have to dissagree then , i must respect you faith and your patience with me though

 

[kai]

On a local level we have The Interfaith Alliance which meets twice a month and representatives from several Christian denominations, the Edmond Mosque, the city's Gujawara (Sikh center), and the Buddhist and Hindu temples--and the Baha`i local spiritual assemblies.

We sponsor several events each year targeting adults and youth.

Regards,
Scott

and what is your common ground here, your purpose

 

[Popeyesays]

and what is your common ground here, your purpose

To promote respect for one another, and try to educate the public that religion does not have to mean conflict.

Baha`i's have this as a command:

"Consort with all religions with amity and concord,
that they may inhale from you the sweet fragrance of
God. Beware lest amidst men the flame of foolish
ignorance overpower you. All things proceed from God
and unto Him they return. He is the source of all
things and in Him all things are ended."

(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 71)

Regards,
Scott

 

[kai]

To promote respect for one another, and try to educate the public that religion does not have to mean conflict.

Baha`i's have this as a command:

"Consort with all religions with amity and concord,
that they may inhale from you the sweet fragrance of
God. Beware lest amidst men the flame of foolish
ignorance overpower you. All things proceed from God
and unto Him they return. He is the source of all
things and in Him all things are ended."

(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 71)

Regards,
Scott

then i commend your work and your religion is fascinating i must learn more.

 

[Popeyesays]

then i commend your work and your religion is fascinating i must learn more.

Try The Bahá'ís for basic easy-to find info.

Regards,

Scott

 

[England my lionheart]

I have been visiting a wiccan forum and although i am not a follower of it they seem a very nice bunch and there are Christian wiccans.
Now there are no wars caused by wiccan or the old religion which pre dates the Bible and Qur'an ,Torah ,indeed they have suffered as badly as the Jews when it comes to persecution.
Wiccan does'nt preach "there is only one way" pagans are very diverse in their beliefs but still come together as one,what i feel is wrong with islam is the fact that there are shias,sunni etc cannot come together as one and this cannot be right and just shows how ambiguos the Qur'an is.

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

I have been visiting a wiccan forum and although i am not a follower of it they seem a very nice bunch and there are Christian wiccans.
Now there are no wars caused by wiccan or the old religion which pre dates the Bible and Qur'an ,Torah ,indeed they have suffered as badly as the Jews when it comes to persecution.
Wiccan does'nt preach "there is only one way" pagans are very diverse in their beliefs but still come together as one,what i feel is wrong with islam is the fact that there are shias,sunni etc cannot come together as one and this cannot be right and just shows how ambiguos the Qur'an is.

The different sects of Islam are there due to difference in opinion concerning Hadith. We know that it is mans work. Where as there are no conflicts about Quranic teachings (at least I do not know of them, perhaps some other muslim can point them out).

 

[YmirGF]

Do you have any proof of this, or are you just making assumptions that only serve to aggrivate people?

I'd personally go for the latter.

Heaven forbid that you actually study the life of the illustious "Prophet". It is rather clear that he was suffering from depression and was therefore suicidal. That condition "miraculously" precipitated a visit from non other than "Archangel" Gabriel himself. There is also documentation that the "Prophet" had seizures prior to speaking the latest ayats of the Qur'an. To me, that is sort of an obvious clue that something was not "quite right". Aside from this a good case could be made that the "Prophet" was bi-polar (manic depressive) as that would nicely explain his visions of Hellfire and Paradise. Last, but not least, it is quite possible that the poor chap was also paranoid. Tell me, what would you think of a man who claimed to see palm trees out for a walk at night or perhaps heard the rocks themselves calling his name? I breathlessly await your reply.

People do think for themselves the very moment they decide to commit to a religion.

Yes, and their motives could be construed as being egotistical. See Pascal's Wagner for what it is worth.

Just as you're choosing to think for yourself by insulting another person's faith.

Sorry, people's alleged faith in their invisible friend does not impress me -- in the slightest. To quote Neil Young, "It doesn't mean that much to me, to mean that much to you."

Who's the better person?

"Better" is simply a value judgment that I care little for. I don't think any group is better than any other group. I don't think a banker is better than a junkie. I don't think a Christian is better than a Muslim. I don't think an environmentalist is better than an oil company executive. That is because I see all people as being equal. I do, however, perceive a great deal of what can be termed ignorance. My chief bug-a-boo is "willful ignorance".

This is just a failed attampt at humour. I really don't need to reply.

That is a nice try, but I assure you, I am deadly serious on that small point. It is all in how one perceives. Personally, I think it is a quite valid comparrison, regardless how that may upset Muslims, as Muslim's themselves are the ones who have essentially deified their "Prophet".

There are far more than that.

Yes, and the similarities are the parts that were hijacked from Christianity and Judaism. No wonder, they have similarities, lol.

I suggest that before you make such bold claims, you actually know what you're talking about.

Since you are an authority on Islam I would gladly have a One on One debate with you on the topic, if you dare.

No offense intended. It's just that your post annoyed me, so I responded to it.

~ DarkSun

Hehe. None taken, DarkSun. It would seem that I am very good at annoying people on RF, One might call me terribly rude, but then perhaps my thinking strikes too close to the bone for comfort. In all fairness, I can argue against virtually any religion of man, including my beloved Buddhism and Hinduism.

 

[Sahar]

Heaven forbid that you actually study the life of the illustious "Prophet". It is rather clear that he was suffering from depression and was therefore suicidal. That condition "miraculously" precipitated a visit from non other than "Archangel" Gabriel himself. There is also documentation that the "Prophet" had seizures prior to speaking the latest ayats of the Qur'an. To me, that is sort of an obvious clue that something was not "quite right". Aside from this a good case could be made that the "Prophet" was bi-polar (manic depressive) as that would nicely explain his visions of Hellfire and Paradise. Last, but not least, it is quite possible that the poor chap was also paranoid. Tell me, what would you think of a man who claimed to see palm trees out for a walk at night or perhaps heard the rocks themselves calling his name? I breathlessly await your reply.

No wonder that the above rubbish comes from a person like you.

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

Heaven forbid that you actually study the life of the illustious "Prophet". It is rather clear that he was suffering from depression and was therefore suicidal. That condition "miraculously" precipitated a visit from non other than "Archangel" Gabriel himself. There is also documentation that the "Prophet" had seizures prior to speaking the latest ayats of the Qur'an. To me, that is sort of an obvious clue that something was not "quite right". Aside from this a good case could be made that the "Prophet" was bi-polar (manic depressive) as that would nicely explain his visions of Hellfire and Paradise. Last, but not least, it is quite possible that the poor chap was also paranoid. Tell me, what would you think of a man who claimed to see palm trees out for a walk at night or perhaps heard the rocks themselves calling his name? I breathlessly await your reply.

Yes, and their motives could be construed as being egotistical. See Pascal's Wagner for what it is worth.

Sorry, people's alleged faith in their invisible friend does not impress me -- in the slightest. To quote Neil Young, "It doesn't mean that much to me, to mean that much to you."

"Better" is simply a value judgment that I care little for. I don't think any group is better than any other group. I don't think a banker is better than a junkie. I don't think a Christian is better than a Muslim. I don't think an environmentalist is better than an oil company executive. That is because I see all people as being equal. I do, however, perceive a great deal of what can be termed ignorance. My chief bug-a-boo is "willful ignorance".

That is a nice try, but I assure you, I am deadly serious on that small point. It is all in how one perceives. Personally, I think it is a quite valid comparrison, regardless how that may upset Muslims, as Muslim's themselves are the ones who have essentially deified their "Prophet".

Yes, and the similarities are the parts that were hijacked from Christianity and Judaism. No wonder, they have similarities, lol.

Since you are an authority on Islam I would gladly have a One on One debate with you on the topic, if you dare.

Hehe. None taken, DarkSun. It would seem that I am very good at annoying people on RF, One might call me terribly rude, but then perhaps my thinking strikes too close to the bone for comfort. In all fairness, I can argue against virtually any religion of man, including my beloved Buddhism and Hinduism.

Well, first of all I would like to check those documentations you are speaking about. And, if even if he really had those seizures that does not imply that he was "suicidal". I would certainly like to hear that from where did you get the "suicidal" impression. Alas, many of your comments are assumptions. In fact, if we follow this tactic many of us can argue about anything ( as you have claimed later, that you can bash any religion).

I believe that you mis-interpreted Darksuns message. When he was talking about who is a better person, he was comparing you : a guy who treats other religions with disrespect with a person who is converting to a religion. I would like to add that basically, none of the religions teach bad things. All of them include certain laws, such as: tolerance, lying and theft are bad etc. . Terrorism and other such activities are not the monopoly of any religion.

Further, you say that you are not impressed by beliefs of a religion. By all means, remain unimpressed. I am not forcing you to accept Islam, no person can force you to turn your heart towards a religion ( be it any religion). Further, I would ask that do your opinions really matter? In fact do the opinions of any individual actually matter? In the end, it is just a person and what he chooses to believe in. No matter what your opinions are or my opinions are we cannot influence anyone.

You even compared muslim belief in Allah, Muhammad (P.B.U.H) and Quran, with trinity. Well, what can I say except that this statement is wrong. Prophet Muhammad is loved dearly by muslims, however he is not considered an authority equal to or greater than God. The proof of this is that, Muslims turn to Quran for any laws or matters. They even turn to Hadith but only those which are not in conflict with Quran. Even a Hadith is not to be followed, if it disagrees with what Quran says ( though I doubt that you will find such a Hadith).

Your post does strike closer to the bone. Not because of the facts presented but because of the way in which words are used.

You have even claimed that Islam has hijacked many things from Christianity and Judaism. Once again, a mere statement and no proof.

 

[Popeyesays]

I have been visiting a wiccan forum and although i am not a follower of it they seem a very nice bunch and there are Christian wiccans.
Now there are no wars caused by wiccan or the old religion which pre dates the Bible and Qur'an ,Torah ,indeed they have suffered as badly as the Jews when it comes to persecution.
Wiccan does'nt preach "there is only one way" pagans are very diverse in their beliefs but still come together as one,what i feel is wrong with islam is the fact that there are shias,sunni etc cannot come together as one and this cannot be right and just shows how ambiguos the Qur'an is.

What you are describing is "Wicca" as it exists today. As it exists today it is only a fond re-creation of what somebody THINKS the old pagan traditions might be.

Wikipedia:
"
Wicca (IPA: /ˈwɪkə/) is a nature-based religion popularised in 1954 by Gerald Gardner, a retired British civil servant.[1] He said that the religion, of which he was an initiate, was a modern survival of an old witchcraft religion which had existed in secret for hundreds of years, originating in the pre-Christian paganism of Europe.[1][2] The veracity of Gardner's statements cannot be independently proven, however, and it is a widely held belief that Wiccan theology began to be compiled no earlier than the 1920s.
Various Wiccan traditions have since evolved from that established by Gardner, which came to be called Gardnerian Wicca. These other traditions have distinctive beliefs, rituals, and practices. Many traditions of Wicca remain secretive and require that members be initiated. There is also a movement of Eclectic Wiccans who do not believe that any doctrine or traditional initiation is necessary in order to practice Wicca.[3]"

Never started wars? Nonsense. The whole Celtic migration from somewhere far to the east that lapped over Europe right to the shores of Ireland was full of wars against the people who already lived there. Volkswanderung is not a peaceful process.

Regards,
Scott

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Heaven forbid that you actually study the life of the illustious "Prophet". It is rather clear that he was suffering from depression and was therefore suicidal. That condition "miraculously" precipitated a visit from non other than "Archangel" Gabriel himself. There is also documentation that the "Prophet" had seizures prior to speaking the latest ayats of the Qur'an. To me, that is sort of an obvious clue that something was not "quite right". Aside from this a good case could be made that the "Prophet" was bi-polar (manic depressive) as that would nicely explain his visions of Hellfire and Paradise. Last, but not least, it is quite possible that the poor chap was also paranoid. Tell me, what would you think of a man who claimed to see palm trees out for a walk at night or perhaps heard the rocks themselves calling his name? I breathlessly await your reply.

What was that again?..
Well, so you are deducing that the prophet was bi-polar to explain "his" visions about hell and paradise?
The concept of hell and paradise is one of the most wise things ever if you didnt notice, and BTW, it's logical..
Having nothing perfect in this world, and then having the most two perfect extremes in the after life...Seems fair to me..

Yes, and their motives could be construed as being egotistical. See Pascal's Wagner for what it is worth.

How is that you believe everyone else is wrong but you?!
Your motives could also be construed as being egotistical..

BTW, I would really like a one on one debate with you Paul...Just tell me if you agree..

 

[YmirGF]

Well, first of all I would like to check those documentations you are speaking about.

Sadly, I haven't the time or the inclination to do so. If you study enough reports about his life, including non-Muslim "white wash" accounts, I am sure you will find what I am saying.

And, if even if he really had those seizures that does not imply that he was "suicidal".

You might want to re-read what I wrote, as I made no link between the two. I note that you stategically decided to ignore the part out hearing the rocks calling his name and observing palm trees out for a stroll.

I would certainly like to hear that from where did you get the "suicidal" impression. Alas, many of your comments are assumptions.

I see you decide to toss them off as assumptions without showing how they are clearly wrong. Fascinating logic, that is.

In fact, if we follow this tactic many of us can argue about anything ( as you have claimed later, that you can bash any religion).

Very true and I see this all the time in dreary little threads created by Muslims, such as the perceived, but erroneous notion of scientific "miracles" found within the vague passages of the "Noble" Qur'an. Aside from this, I simply stated that I can "argue" not "bash" as you so delightfully twisted the phrase.

I believe that you mis-interpreted Darksuns message. When he was talking about who is a better person, he was comparing you : a guy who treats other religions with disrespect with a person who is converting to a religion.

*sigh* That is simply value judgment, nonetheless. Perhaps if the much vaunted religion's of man were worthy of my respect I would feel inclined to treat them so. Sadly, I perceive them as being worthy of the measure of respect that I already give them.

I would like to add that basically, none of the religions teach bad things.

Right. I keep forgetting that. Do you have any real proof of what you are saying, or is this not simply your own opinion? For example, imposing primitive moralistic values on people is seen as a "good" thing, but is it really? Religion often gives one the impression that, left alone, the human animal, will become a deranged mass murder, devoid of compassion without their ever-so-thoughtful "spiritual" guidance. Forgive me, but people, in general, don't need to be told how to behave.

All of them include certain laws, such as: tolerance, lying and theft are bad etc. . Terrorism and other such activities are not the monopoly of any religion.

I don't believe in "good" and "bad". They are both relative to the viewpoint taken. They are merely value judgments. "Terrorism" is in fact sanctioned within Islam, in that once the call to "revert" is given, and rejected any and all tactics may be employed to end the conflict. Theoretically, if that conflict/oppression originates within the minds of Muslims, there is no end to that conflict until the adversary or oppressor is vanquished. God willing, of course.

Further, you say that you are not impressed by beliefs of a religion. By all means, remain unimpressed. I am not forcing you to accept Islam, no person can force you to turn your heart towards a religion ( be it any religion).

Oddly, you make it sounds as if some religion IS the right path for all people to follow. You give me the impression that there is something "wrong" with me for not bellying up to the bar and converting to a particular religion. I might stress that this can apply both ways too, my friend. Perhaps there is, plain and simple, just something "wrong" with people who embrace religion. Perhaps it is a genetic flaw.

Further, I would ask that do your opinions really matter? In fact do the opinions of any individual actually matter? In the end, it is just a person and what he chooses to believe in. No matter what your opinions are or my opinions are we cannot influence anyone.

Wrong. WE influence others every moment of our existence. You are being terribly naive if you believe otherwise.

You even compared muslim belief in Allah, Muhammad (P.B.U.H) and Quran, with trinity. Well, what can I say except that this statement is wrong.

Try thinking about what I am saying perhaps before you just dismiss it. The comparrison is quite valid in my opinion, as it is not meant to be taken literally, ONLY symbolically.

Prophet Muhammad is loved dearly by muslims, however he is not considered an authority equal to or greater than God. The proof of this is that, Muslims turn to Quran for any laws or matters. They even turn to Hadith but only those which are not in conflict with Quran. Even a Hadith is not to be followed, if it disagrees with what Quran says ( though I doubt that you will find such a Hadith).

Let's turn to Merriam-Webster dictionary for a moment, shall we.

deify Main Entry: de·i·fy
Pronunciation: \ˈdē-ə-ˌfī, ˈdā-\ Function: transitive verb Inflected Form(s): de·i·fied; de·i·fy·ing Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French deifier, from Late Latin deificare, from Latin deus god + -ficare -fy Date: 14th century 1 a: to make a god of b: to take as an object of worship
2: to glorify as of supreme worth

You see, one does not have to worship the "Prophet" to have deified him. Muslim's DO "glorify" the example of Muhammed [pbuh] as (being) of supreme worth. If such was not the case, I rather expect that Muslim's would not love him so much and neither would they wish to emulate his every act.

Your post does strike closer to the bone. Not because of the facts presented but because of the way in which words are used.

Thank you, I do put a lot of thought into what I am writing... well... while I am writing it, at least. RF is just for fun, you ought to see what I produce when I am seriously working on something, lol.

You have even claimed that Islam has hijacked many things from Christianity and Judaism. Once again, a mere statement and no proof.

Um... look at the Qur'an. Study Muslim theology. It's all there in black and white. Oh, I keep forgetting that Islam was created by an illiterate man. They don't mention that he met with people from far and wide and eagerly listened to their stories. No, that couldn't have been where he got a lot of his ideas.

 

[YmirGF]

What was that again?..
Well, so you are deducing that the prophet was bi-polar to explain "his" visions about hell and paradise? YEP, that is exactly what I am saying.
The concept of hell and paradise is one of the most wise things ever if you didnt notice, and BTW, it's logical.. LOL.

Do share with me why "heaven" and "hell" is one of the "most wise things ever". PS: Who said it wasn't logical? LOL.

Having nothing perfect in this world, and then having the most two perfect extremes in the after life...Seems fair to me..

Tee hee. Okay. Well that settles things, doesn't it. What you fail to grasp is that your thinking is still stuck in dualistic concepts. Some of us are a rather long way from that point.

How is that you believe everyone else is wrong but you?!
Your motives could also be construed as being egotistical..

I am perhaps the only one on RF that continually says, "I could be wrong." Sheesh. Perhaps I should change my avatar, the mouse is getting a bit stale, lol.

BTW, I would really like a one on one debate with you Paul...Just tell me if you agree..

Any time, my friend. Heck, I'll even be polite... well, as possible, of course. :bow:

 

[Popeyesays]

Sadly, I haven't the time or the inclination to do so. If you study enough reports about his life, including non-Muslim "white wash" accounts, I am sure you will find what I am saying.

When making claims in public this is the usual tactic for people who don't have proof of anything.

You might want to re-read what I wrote, as I made no link between the two. I note that you stategically decided to ignore the part out hearing the rocks calling his name and observing palm trees out for a stroll.

And Moses saw a burning bush that did not consume itself, Jesus beheld a physical Satan, Abraham was willing to sacrifice His beloved son, etc., etc..

I see you decide to toss them off as assumptions without showing how they are clearly wrong. Fascinating logic, that is.

Why not? You certainly did.

Very true and I see this all the time in dreary little threads created by Muslims, such as the perceived, but erroneous notion of scientific "miracles" found within the vague passages of the "Noble" Qur'an. Aside from this, I simply stated that I can "argue" not "bash" as you so delightfully twisted the phrase.

You can't make arguments without a nod to proving the argument, otherwise it is diatribe, not argument.

*sigh* That is simply value judgment, nonetheless. Perhaps if the much vaunted religion's of man were worthy of my respect I would feel inclined to treat them so. Sadly, I perceive them as being worthy of the measure of respect that I already give them.

And give their adherents equal respect, or an equal lack of respect.

Right. I keep forgetting that. Do you have any real proof of what you are saying, or is this not simply your own opinion? For example, imposing primitive moralistic values on people is seen as a "good" thing, but is it really? Religion often gives one the impression that, left alone, the human animal, will become a deranged mass murder, devoid of compassion without their ever-so-thoughtful "spiritual" guidance. Forgive me, but people, in general, don't need to be told how to behave.

Again you made a claim without offering proof so you are hardly a good example.

I don't believe in "good" and "bad". They are both relative to the viewpoint taken. They are merely value judgments. "Terrorism" is in fact sanctioned within Islam, in that once the call to "revert" is given, and rejected any and all tactics may be employed to end the conflict. Theoretically, if that conflict/oppression originates within the minds of Muslims, there is no end to that conflict until the adversary or oppressor is vanquished. God willing, of course.

This is a very narrow and tiny-minded portion of Islam.

Oddly, you make it sounds as if some religion IS the right path for all people to follow. You give me the impression that there is something "wrong" with me for not bellying up to the bar and converting to a particular religion. I might stress that this can apply both ways too, my friend. Perhaps there is, plain and simple, just something "wrong" with people who embrace religion. Perhaps it is a genetic flaw.

Perhaps the genetic flaw is on the other side? Again assertion without argument.

Wrong. WE influence others every moment of our existence. You are being terribly naive if you believe otherwise.

If you're trying to influence with this argument, who are you trying to influence? If you are trying to influence the person to whom you respond, your tactics are very, very bad. And if you're trying to influence others, grandstanding and bombast will influence very few.

Try thinking about what I am saying perhaps before you just dismiss it. The comparrison is quite valid in my opinion, as it is not meant to be taken literally, ONLY symbolically.

It would cause more thought if it wasn't just plain bad.

That's enough for me right now.

Regards,
Scott

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

Sadly, I haven't the time or the inclination to do so. If you study enough reports about his life, including non-Muslim "white wash" accounts, I am sure you will find what I am saying.

You might want to re-read what I wrote, as I made no link between the two. I note that you stategically decided to ignore the part out hearing the rocks calling his name and observing palm trees out for a stroll.

I see you decide to toss them off as assumptions without showing how they are clearly wrong. Fascinating logic, that is.

Very true and I see this all the time in dreary little threads created by Muslims, such as the perceived, but erroneous notion of scientific "miracles" found within the vague passages of the "Noble" Qur'an. Aside from this, I simply stated that I can "argue" not "bash" as you so delightfully twisted the phrase.

*sigh* That is simply value judgment, nonetheless. Perhaps if the much vaunted religion's of man were worthy of my respect I would feel inclined to treat them so. Sadly, I perceive them as being worthy of the measure of respect that I already give them.

Right. I keep forgetting that. Do you have any real proof of what you are saying, or is this not simply your own opinion? For example, imposing primitive moralistic values on people is seen as a "good" thing, but is it really? Religion often gives one the impression that, left alone, the human animal, will become a deranged mass murder, devoid of compassion without their ever-so-thoughtful "spiritual" guidance. Forgive me, but people, in general, don't need to be told how to behave.

I don't believe in "good" and "bad". They are both relative to the viewpoint taken. They are merely value judgments. "Terrorism" is in fact sanctioned within Islam, in that once the call to "revert" is given, and rejected any and all tactics may be employed to end the conflict. Theoretically, if that conflict/oppression originates within the minds of Muslims, there is no end to that conflict until the adversary or oppressor is vanquished. God willing, of course.

Oddly, you make it sounds as if some religion IS the right path for all people to follow. You give me the impression that there is something "wrong" with me for not bellying up to the bar and converting to a particular religion. I might stress that this can apply both ways too, my friend. Perhaps there is, plain and simple, just something "wrong" with people who embrace religion. Perhaps it is a genetic flaw.

Wrong. WE influence others every moment of our existence. You are being terribly naive if you believe otherwise.

Try thinking about what I am saying perhaps before you just dismiss it. The comparrison is quite valid in my opinion, as it is not meant to be taken literally, ONLY symbolically.

Let's turn to Merriam-Webster dictionary for a moment, shall we.

deify Main Entry: de·i·fy
Pronunciation: \ˈdē-ə-ˌfī, ˈdā-\ Function: transitive verb Inflected Form(s): de·i·fied; de·i·fy·ing Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French deifier, from Late Latin deificare, from Latin deus god + -ficare -fy Date: 14th century 1 a: to make a god of b: to take as an object of worship
2: to glorify as of supreme worth

You see, one does not have to worship the "Prophet" to have deified him. Muslim's DO "glorify" the example of Muhammed [pbuh] as (being) of supreme worth. If such was not the case, I rather expect that Muslim's would not love him so much and neither would they wish to emulate his every act.



Thank you, I do put a lot of thought into what I am writing... well... while I am writing it, at least. RF is just for fun, you ought to see what I produce when I am seriously working on something, lol.


Um... look at the Qur'an. Study Muslim theology. It's all there in black and white. Oh, I keep forgetting that Islam was created by an illiterate man. They don't mention that he met with people from far and wide and eagerly listened to their stories. No, that couldn't have been where he got a lot of his ideas.

What you call "white wash" accounts will be biased for me and vice versa. Anyways, you are not willing to direct me to such accounts.
U have still not clarified the "suicidal" part. As for speaking to stones etc. why not give reference and then wait for a response.
Now here comes the logic of Athiests. When you ask a theist that why he believes in God and he replies that As there is no proof against existence of God, you treat it as a failed logic. Here, in this situation, you are willing to assume that Prophet Muhammad had suicidal tendencies because there is no proof against it? Irony..... Anyways, find me valid and accurate accounts where Prophet Muhammad tried to commit suicide.
Terrorism sanctioned in Islam? Give verses from Quran and then speak (or write).
Muslims follow Prophet Muhammad as a role model as he demonstrated, the ways of how to become a perfect Muslim. He followed commandments of Quran and if is copied, we are indirectly following actions mentioned in Quran.
Yes, he only got Ideas from Bible, that were correct and he abandoned all those which were wrong? How wise is that.
And just for the record, you were the one who abandoned discussion in Quran and science thread, not me.

 

[credance]

You even compared muslim belief in Allah, Muhammad (P.B.U.H) and Quran, with trinity. Well, what can I say except that this statement is wrong. Prophet Muhammad is loved dearly by muslims, however he is not considered an authority equal to or greater than God. The proof of this is that, Muslims turn to Quran for any laws or matters. They even turn to Hadith but only those which are not in conflict with Quran. Even a Hadith is not to be followed, if it disagrees with what Quran says ( though I doubt that you will find such a Hadith).

There is no trinity associated with Muhammed. He was strictly a one man show. It is only through blind faith in Muhammed that Islam exist. He alone saw the visions and spoke to his angels. He even had problems recognizing which angel was Satan and which was Gabriel.
What seems obvious to me is his early attempts to include everyone. Idolaters, (Allah, black stone, Kaaba). Jews, (Adam, Abraham, Moses, etc). Christianity, (Jesus Christ).
Jews and Christians had no choice but to reject him because he could not be corroborated by scripture or any of the previous prophets. The myth that the three religions are connected remains today even though Muhammed in later revelations tried to build an irreconcilable wall between them. His connections with the idolaters remains today.
There will be Muslims that point out the numerous Jews and Christians that did convert, but I ask how many of you are so faithful that if you are about to lose your head and your wife and daughters are going to be thrown to the heathens would think it was worth it? Many Muslims would think it is, but so did many Jews and Christians. They paid the ultimate price and for Muslims to say there is no compulsion in religion is one of their biggest lies. Of course for the sake of argument you could get out your bible and go to the town square in many Islamic countries and proclaim Jesus Christ to be your Lord and Savior, but I think you need to take my word for it.
Sometimes I wonder if Muslims read their own doctrine, or know who Muhammed really was. I guess I underestimate the power of the mind to be willingly deceived.
Don't take it personal Muslims. If Christians start getting really stupid again I will give them my two cents worth.:bow:

 

[Popeyesays]

The best I can find about stones acting bizzarely is a BUkhari hadit which refers to Moses chasing a stone that was stealing His clothing.

The Prophet said, 'The (people of) Bani Israel
used to take bath naked (all together) looking at
each other. The Prophet Moses used to take a
bath alone. They said, 'By Allah! Nothing
prevents Moses from taking a bath with us
except that he has a scrotal hernia.' So once
Moses went out to take a bath and put his
clothes over a stone and then that stone ran away
with his clothes. Moses followed that stone
saying, "My clothes, O stone! My clothes, O
stone! till the people of Bani Israel saw him and
said, 'By Allah, Moses has got no defect in his
body. Moses took his clothes and began to beat
the stone." Abu Huraira added, "By Allah! There
are still six or seven marks present on the stone
from that excessive beating."

(Hadith, Bukhari Vol 1)

Regards,

Scott