What do you feel is wrong with Islam?

[England my lionheart]

I have been looking at islam online and the more i read the more it reinforces my opinion of Islam as a manmade religion to provide a powerbase for the use of control.
From what should be eaten to menstrual cycles its all there someone his thread said "yes we are slaves to islam" and yes i think he is right ,slaves in mind and body wearing blinkers.
Earlier in this thread we were discussing slavery in islam and i was told that"as long as you feed and clothe the slave the same as yourself" its ok,come on this is 2008 its time to stop this.
And one last point although i feel i could write a book on what i feel is wrong with islam,ambiguous to the extent of people carrying out extreme violence on innocent people but bviously not all muslims are bad and it would be very wrong to say so,but i think a large majority do not like democracy.
Democracy is such a fine word and it should be a beacon for every free thinking Human being which is where the problem for muslims because they are not free thinking.
It has also been claimed that the qur'an offers scientific knowledge,to me you would need a huge pinch of salt to swallow that one,if that were true why is the middle east so backward and why are muslims stuck in the middle ages.
In this thread it has also been claimed that people like hammas,al qieda etc are not real muslims which is absolute bull as they most certainly are but muslims will not openly condemn any muslim so it goes on.
Muslims free your minds and the rest will follow.
Regards

 

[England my lionheart]

Just one more point,muslims along with many other religions rely heavily on religious inheritance which i feel is wrong as it does'nt allow for free thought and islam is guilty of this and i think nobody should be forced or coerced into a religion until they make their own mind up.
To back up this up,i have three children,the oldest 25,all three have been given their own choice when it comes to religion and they have all been given religious education at school on all the various beliefs yet all three have chosen not to follow any.
What does this tell me ,well it tells me that given a choice and to find out that if you don't pray 5 times a day or go to church on sunday or the synogogue on saturday you will not suffer eternal damnation or make you a lesser person,indeed all three of my children are of good character and succesful in what they do.
How many of you muslims on this thread were actually given a choice? and if you were would you really have chosen islam?

 

[DarkSun]

Not quite 30% ; not all are "willing muslims" even in a muslim country.

If religious freedom is granted in "muslim" countries I am sure many will convert to Christanity or other religions.

I think you misunderstood what I said.

^_^ '

 

[Popeyesays]

Proverbs say: Raise up a child in the way that is right; and when he is old, he will not depart therefrom.

It does not say that he won't rebel when he is young.

That said, it is a responsibility of Baha`i's to investigate reality for themselves, one cannot choose to be a Baha`i until one has reached the age of maturity. Abdu'l Baha says:
"First among the great principles revealed by Him is that of the investigation of reality. The meaning is that every individual member of humankind is exhorted and commanded to set aside superstitious beliefs, traditions and blind imitation of ancestral forms in religion and investigate reality for himself. Inasmuch as the fundamental reality is one, all religions and nations of the world will become one through investigation of reality. The announcement of this principle is not found in any of the sacred Books of the past."

(Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 433)

Islam demands that there be no coercion in religion, but upbringing is not necessarily coercion.

I have two children, the oldest is 25. Both daughters have stayed active Baha`i's and in their childhood education have been introduced to all the religions. We encouraged them to make their own choices, and they have stayed Baha`i--both being active in the faith.

Your mileage may vary.

Regards,
Scott

 

[England my lionheart]

Proverbs say: Raise up a child in the way that is right; and when he is old, he will not depart therefrom.

It does not say that he won't rebel when he is young.

That said, it is a responsibility of Baha`i's to investigate reality for themselves, one cannot choose to be a Baha`i until one has reached the age of maturity. Abdu'l Baha says:
"First among the great principles revealed by Him is that of the investigation of reality. The meaning is that every individual member of humankind is exhorted and commanded to set aside superstitious beliefs, traditions and blind imitation of ancestral forms in religion and investigate reality for himself. Inasmuch as the fundamental reality is one, all religions and nations of the world will become one through investigation of reality. The announcement of this principle is not found in any of the sacred Books of the past."

(Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 433)

Islam demands that there be no coercion in religion, but upbringing is not necessarily coercion.

I have two children, the oldest is 25. Both daughters have stayed active Baha`i's and in their childhood education have been introduced to all the religions. We encouraged them to make their own choices, and they have stayed Baha`i--both being active in the faith.

Your mileage may vary.

Regards,
Scott

I am glad your children have had a choice however how many chidren get the choice,say in syria or the sudan,iran etc i would be pleasatly surprised if there were any.

 

[Evandr]

:clap Masha'Allah! May Allah bless the hands who typed this great post!
Well said and I can't say it better dear sister!
I'll frubal you once I can

Salam,
Peace

You are correct in your praise, Islam is a beautiful religion that is being severely scarred by extremist zealots who unrightfully do their heinous deeds in the name of innocence. Surly the wrath of God (or Allah) will be upon their heads in the end.

Every commandment kept will be blessed with that promised regardless of the banner under which the person resides. The difficulty comes to most in failure to understand commandment because it is burdened so very much by the endless and foolish interpretations of mankind.

Properly understanding commandment first requires a person having ears to hear and eyes to see and that requires humility before God and a personal relationship wherein the individual is willing to be taught regardless of the traditions of the fathers.

If the traditions of the fathers are correct then nothing need be a concern, it will be made manifest and the person may rejoice. If the traditions of the fathers are not correct, it too will be made manifest and that same person can still rejoice in the Lord (or Allah depending on your viewpoint) but has the added privilege of standing for the truth against family opposition because by so doing they may be the balm that heals the wounded of their own.

Keeping a commandment is one thing, understanding the depths and ramafacations of what you are doing is another.

 

[England my lionheart]

Please explain why islam is beautiful.

 

[Sunstone]

Please explain why islam is beautiful.

For one thing, it's emphasis on charity.

 

[England my lionheart]

The taliban,hammas,al quieda and the council of experts in iran are they beautiful?

 

[England my lionheart]

For one thing, it's emphasis on charity.

There are a lot of people who give to charity but follow no religion

 

[Sunstone]

There are a lot of people who give to charity but follow no religion

Yes, but what has that got to do with it?

 

[Sunstone]

The taliban,hammas,al quieda and the council of experts in iran are they beautiful?

Are you seriously suggesting that Islam has no beauty to it because of the taliban, etc.? By that token, Christianity has no beauty to it because of the Inquisition.

 

[England my lionheart]

I'm quite drawn to girls on trampolines,especially if it were Kate Beckinsale on the trampoline

 

[England my lionheart]

Are you seriously suggesting that Islam has no beauty to it because of the taliban, etc.? By that token, Christianity has no beauty to it because of the Inquisition.

I'm saying that imo religion as a whole have nothing to do with beauty

 

[Sunstone]

I'm saying that imo religion as a whole have nothing to do with beauty

I think we're skirting with a semantic argument then. I'd rather bow out than get into one.

 

[England my lionheart]

I think the only act from any religious book that i would call beautiful is the story of Jesus

 

[Popeyesays]

I am glad your children have had a choice however how many chidren get the choice,say in syria or the sudan,iran etc i would be pleasatly surprised if there were any.

It is not ILLEGAL to be Baha`i in Egypt, Syria and Iran; however, one cannot get national ID cards, work legally, receive pensions, attend institutions of higher learning. In some instances Baha`i marriages were declared illegal in Iran and the children siezed so they could be raised in muslim homes. Baha`i's are still being arrested occasionally in Iran and imprisoned. About 300 were executed or died under suspicious circumstances during the establishment of the Islamic Republic of Iran

All that said, I still do not hold Islam responsible for this. I hold hate-mongering clergy and politicians responsible, but not Islam.

If I, who know many Baha`i's who have had family imprisoned or murdered simply because they were Baha`i have no malice toward Islam; why, should I suffer your bigotry?

Regards,

Scott

 

[England my lionheart]

It is not ILLEGAL to be Baha`i in Egypt, Syria and Iran; however, one cannot get national ID cards, work legally, receive pensions, attend institutions of higher learning. In some instances Baha`i marriages were declared illegal in Iran and the children siezed so they could be raised in muslim homes. Baha`i's are still being arrested occasionally in Iran and imprisoned. About 300 were executed or died under suspicious circumstances during the establishment of the Islamic Republic of Iran

All that said, I still do not hold Islam responsible for this. I hold hate-mongering clergy and politicians responsible, but not Islam.

If I, who know many Baha`i's who have had family imprisoned or murdered simply because they were Baha`i have no malice toward Islam; why, should I suffer your bigotry?

Regards,

Scott

In what way am i being a bigot,i am expressing what i feel is wrong with islam.
Was qur'an written by a group of men= yes ,are the groups i have mentioned muslims=yes,is the qur'an ambiguous=yes and to back that up shias sunnis etc,just because i call a spade a spade and answer this post as honestly as i can and even researching does not make me a bigot.
Regards

 

[England my lionheart]

And by the way i have no malice towards islam either or any religion but it is religion that causes many conflicts

 

[Popeyesays]

In what way am i being a bigot,i am expressing what i feel is wrong with islam.
Was qur'an written by a grop of men= yes ,are the groups i have mentioned muslims=yes,is the qur'an ambiguous=yes and to back that up shias sunnis etc,just because i call a spade a spade and answer this post as honestly as i can and even researching does not make me a bigot.
Rgards

Actually, the Qur'an was recited by ONLY Muhammed. Stenographers took down the recitation, and memorized the verses, reciting them to each other and Muhammed to make sure they had the Surahs right.

The Qur'an was not written by a group of men at all. In fact in its original form it was not written at all. Muslims will tell you patiently that Muhammed did not originate the Qur'an, it is the word of God conducted by the Angel Gabriel directly to Muhammed's ear.

The hadith are a different matter. The hadith are "SAYINGS" from Muhammed that were NOT directly from God. They are conversations, stories, commentaries from Muhammed to various of His companions. In order to make the compilation of hadith, they had to be repeated by several different companions in essentially the same form.

But the hadith are not scripture.

THe reason the SUnni and the SHi'ih differ is because of discord over the succession of Muhammed. Sunni follow the Caliphate, and the Shi'ih consider the Caliphate to be an invention of men. The schism became set when the grandson of Muhammed, Husayn was assassinated.

So the major schism in Islam is not over ANYTHING in the Qur'an.

I have the impression that your research is all fresh, and limited to the internet.

Research requires rumination and thought. THe internet has many good things but also large bucketloads of horse manure masquerading as information. Pick up a bloody book from time to time, books that challenge your preconceptions and don't feed a growing prejudice.

I recommend for a start Muhammed and the Course of Islam, by H. M. Balyuzi. Mr. Balyuzi was not a muslim, and his books is symapthetic to Muhammed but is not blinded by being a religious follower of Islam.

Amazon.com: Muhammad and the Course of Islam: Books: H.M. Balyuzi

Also An Introduction to Shi`i Islam: The History and Doctrines of Twelver Shi`ism (Paperback), Moojan Momen.
Amazon.com: An Introduction to Shi`i Islam: The History and Doctrines of Twelver Shi`ism: Books: Moojan Momen

Also: Islam a SHort History, by Karen Armstrong.
Amazon.com: Islam: A Short History (Modern Library Chronicles): Books: Karen Armstrong

After you've done some research in even-handed sources, visit a Mosque, talk to the local Imam. But visit several so you get some rounded experience.

Regards,

Scott