What do you feel is wrong with Islam?

[Sunstone]

My point is simple a taliban,syrian,iranian etc etc is no less a muslim than any other and to say they are not REAL muslims is nonsense ,icall a dog a dog i will not call it a daffodil.

So far as I can understand what you're saying here, EML.... It seems to me true there are Muslims who do evil, just as there are Christians who do evil. But to condemn all Muslims for the actions of those who do evil is just as foolish as condemning all Christians for the actions of those who do evil.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

My point is simple a taliban,syrian,iranian etc etc is no less a muslim than any other and to say they are not REAL muslims is nonsense ,icall a dog a dog i will not call it a daffodil.

Actually the action of killing unjustly does cast a serious light on the condition of the iman of a muslim. This hadith of the prophet comes to mind:


Narrated Jarir: The Prophet said to me during Hajjat-al-Wida': Let the people keep quiet and listen. Then he said (addressing the people), "Do not (become infidels) revert to disbelief after me by striking the necks (cutting the throats) of one another (killing each other)."



Here rasulullah (saw) turns to the people as a whole where he was at, and addressed them with the above messege. He linked the killing unjustly of people with kufr. So in fact the iman of a muslim becomes suspect when they engage in such dreadful behaviour as killing. Islam defines defensive acts of war as legitimate, as well as other forms of self-defense that may turn lethal. Islam defines killing when there is no legitimate provocation, and it is the intentional murder of an individual or group without ISLAMIC validity. The valid reasons for the use of lethal force are unambiguous and clear. Islam promotes peace but it does not promote pacifism.....at all. Those are two totally different ideologies.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

The "silence" (which you exaggerate) of Muslims on terrorism is no greater than the silence of Americans on the Dominionist and Reconstructionist Movements within Christianity. You don't see large numbers of Americans turn out to protest those movements, despite their evil nature, nor do you see large numbers of Muslims turn out to protest terrorism, despite its evil nature. That's not because large numbers of Americans or Muslims accept and approve of those evils. It's because their leaders have not yet mobilized them against those evils.

Very well said!

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Bismillah-hir-Rehman-ir-Rahim (In the name of Allah, most gracious, most merciful)
Please post your questions or misconceptions you have about Islam. I will Inshallah (which means hopefully) try to clarify. You can also try to prove to me a single thing in Islam which is bad. A single thing. I am just asking for one.

You want one thing that is bad in Islam, that's easy. Political factions. It's the same thing that is bad in any religion. When religion is used as a tool or weapon by people who wish to impose their views, either political or moral, on a population, it's a bad thing. Now if you had asked for a single thing that makes Islam a bad religion I would have said none, there are no bad religions but all religions have bad in them. Can't have good without bad, at least not if human beings are involved.

 

[England my lionheart]

So far as I can understand what you're saying here, EML.... It seems to me true there are Muslims who do evil, just as there are Christians who do evil. But to condemn all Muslims for the actions of those who do evil is just as foolish as condemning all Christians for the actions of those who do evil.

Of course there are good muslims,i know i have met many,and yes there are good people from all religions,but the qur'an an its interpretation by muslims is the problem.
Shria law for example and there is the abuse of women and the right to choose your sexuality,religion,free speech and new ideas,i don't want to list everything as it would take too long but i think you will get the gist of it.

 

[DarkSun]

Of course there are good muslims,i know i have met many,and yes there are good people from all religions,but the qur'an an its interpretation by muslims is the problem.
Shria law for example and there is the abuse of women and the right to choose your sexuality,religion,free speech and new ideas,i don't want to list everything as it would take too long but i think you will get the gist of it.

Quran starts with a capital, and Sharia law contains two a's.

The few Islamic woman I've spoken to do not feel abused by the doctrine of Islam. Why is this an issue?

The rest I'm inclined to agree with. Although a society against freedom of religion, speech and ideas might have more to do with the people and culture, composing the society, and not of the religion itself.

 

[England my lionheart]

Quran starts with a capital, and Sharia law contains two a's.

The few Islamic woman I've spoken to do not feel abused by the doctrine of Islam. Why is this an issue?

The rest I'm inclined to agree with. Although a society against freedom of religion, speech and ideas might have more to do with the people and culture, composing the society, and not of the religion itself.

I think you understood it,i am not writing an essay so i think the odd capital missing shoud'nt be a problem

 

[England my lionheart]

EMLH, you seem to be a narrow-minded. You see the actions of 3% out of 100% of muslims, and judge the remaining 97% on their actions. The fact is, maybe the Qu'ran does say to kill non-believers, but in todays society, i really would not expect a human to do that, i mean if you belonged to a religion and it said that, would you do it? Most musims are good people. And it seems you are becoming like a lot of idiotic brits, they are stupid and racist, they call me paki and dont realise i am not muslim or pakistani. I for one am trying to help the people around me to not become one of them.

Man... i need to learn how to spell. ON the keyboard that is, otherswise, im a really really good speller/

Penguino,if i were to post a thread "whats wrong with race relations in England" i bt your fingers would be like Beethovens on the keyboard.
I am fed up with having to pussyfoot around,everytime someone makes a criticism about islam its "oh,all muslims are'nt bad" true not all are but after all the thread is'nt about the people its about the religion.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Penguino,if i were to post a thread "whats wrong with race relations in England" i bt your fingers would be like Beethovens on the keyboard.
I am fed up with having to pussyfoot around,everytime someone makes a criticism about islam its "oh,all muslims are'nt bad" true not all are but after all the thread is'nt about the people its about the religion.

Your right they would, because England is a messed up country.
If your so fed up then whats the point of posting here? But muslims and Islam is one package, its not seperate. By saying islam has faults, it says islam has faults as well, since a muslim would justify their actions from the Qu'ran.

 

[Popeyesays]

I think you understood it,i am not writing an essay so i think the odd capital missing shoud'nt be a problem

I think that an occasional missing capital letter is probably forgiveable. As best I can remember you NEVER capitalize Qur'an and usually use Koran for that matter. I don't think you habitually capitalize Muslim either or Islam.

WHe n you write instead of talk, you cannot depend on nonverbal communication aids--faciaql expression, body language, etc.. It's just bald words on a page. Perhapsw you should approach them as essays instead, both your communication and the consequences of your communication would seem less outalndish, boorish and rude.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Sahar]

I don't think the capital letter is an issue. Let him type Qur'an, Muslims, Islam or anything else in the way he is comfortable with.

 

[vandervalley]

Your right they would, because England is a messed up country.
If your so fed up then whats the point of posting here? But muslims and Islam is one package, its not seperate. By saying islam has faults, it says islam has faults as well, since a muslim would justify their actions from the Qu'ran.

If England is a messed up country then one wouldn't be able to practice Hinduism or other Dharmic religions in the country.

I mean you can go to Saudi Arabia and try practice a Dharmic religion there; I'd hate to see how you would end up.

 

[Popeyesays]

If England is a messed up country then one wouldn't be able to practice Hinduism or other Dharmic religions in the country.

I mean you can go to Saudi Arabia and try practice a Dharmic religion there; I'd hate to see how you would end up.

Actually in Saudi Arabia how yuou pray is in fact your own business. If you enter the country with a prayer book or a holy book by itself for your own use, they won't say much. If you come with four dozen New Testaments, they will confiscate because it is assumed they are for distribution.

Regards,

Scott

 

[vandervalley]

Actually in Saudi Arabia how yuou pray is in fact your own business. If you enter the country with a prayer book or a holy book by itself for your own use, they won't say much. If you come with four dozen New Testaments, they will confiscate because it is assumed they are for distribution.

Regards,

Scott

So what would happen to a person entering Saudi Arabia if he/she is found to bring in Hindu scriptures or Buddhist Sutras?

 

[Popeyesays]

So what would happen to a person entering Saudi Arabia if he/she is found to bring in Hindu scriptures or Buddhist Sutras?

For personal prayer? Probably nothing.
Most foreign visitors in Saudi Arabia are European or Middle Eastern. Worker populations are predominantly Middle Eastern.

The most serious flaw in current Saudi culture is their tendency to think they have so much money there is no need for the subjects of the king to develop the technical and modern skills required. They can afford to bring in foreigners and pay them

I find that a particularly bad long term solution.

As a Baha`i. I would tend to take a lap top and load whatever I needed onto the laptop and carry a CD-ROM disk. Or download Ocean from the internet.

If I were a Hindu and wanted figures of the gods for prayer, I'd take digital pictures and use those.

If I travelled to Saudi Arabia I would confer with the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States and find out what the current guidance is for Baha`i's travelling to that kind of place were.

I am deciding whether I want to take a year and teach in China. If I go there there will be restrictions on how I deport myself religiously in China. It's up to me to obey the Chinese Laws and I would seek advice on how to behave from Baha`i institutions.

Regards,
Scott

 

[kai]

popeyesays you are aware that Saudis strictly filter iinternet content and Baha'i sites are one of the resticted areas, i must commend you on your defence of a religion (Islam) which interpreted in some countries would put your life in peril, i think you would be safer in China than you would be in Saudi Arabia

 

[maro]

Excerpt K 2:190-191
Set 2, Count 3+4 [2.190] ...fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you...[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

[190] Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress ; for Allah loveth not transgressors.


[191] And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.


[192] But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Excerpt K 4:074-077
Set 15, Count 38-41 [4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward. [4.75] ...fight in the way of Allah... [4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Satan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Satan... [4.77] ...when fighting is prescribed for them...Our Lord! why hast Thou ordained fighting for us?...

74] Let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter, To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah - whether he is slain or gets victory - soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).


[75] And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)? Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!

Excerpt K 4:089-091
Set 17, Count 43-45 [4.89] ...take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back [to their homes], then seize them and kill them wherever you find them... [4.90] Allah has not given you a way against them [Allah supposedly does not allow Muslims to fight people friendly to Muslims]. [4.91]...seize them and kill them wherever you find them...

90] Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (Of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then Allah hath opened no way for you (to war against them).

Excerpt K 8:015-017
Set 29, Count 63-65 [8.15] ...when you meet those who disbelieve marching for war, then turn not your backs to them. [8.16] ...for the sake of fighting... [8.17] So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them, and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy), but it was Allah Who smote [Allah gets the credit for Jihad]...

15] O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them..........

NB: "when you meet them" ,doesn't mean we are allowed to start the fight

2:216

Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.

NB:Fighting is prescribed on us,in defense of ourselves, our lands and our Religion , as understood from other verses , and from the whole quranic context......there is no order to transgress here

4:74

Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.

Why post the same verse twice ? , see above !

9:5

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush.

4]But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided anyone against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.


[5] But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

[6] If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

NB:From the context of the verse, it's clear that this is not an order to transgress ,but the fight was meant to protect "Islam" from the brutal war started by the pagans of mecca to eradicate the faith and it's followers, ...
but if they showed peace , we show peace in return

9:111

Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah ? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.

Again, To ( Fight in the way of Allah ) , doesn't mean to transgress, but to fight in defence of our Religion....
It doesn't only means to fight "literally " in a battle field , but all means of Struggle for the sake of Allah...

28:58

And how many a community have We destroyed that was thankless for its means of livelihood! And yonder are their dwellings, which have not been inhabited after them save a little. And We, even We, were the inheritors.

58] And how many populations We destroyed, which exulted in their life (of ease and plenty)! Now those habitations of theirs, after them, are deserted, all but a (miserable) few! And We are their heirs!

[59] Nor was thy Lord the one to destroy a population until He had sent to its centre a Messenger, rehearsing to them Our Signs: nor are We going to destroy a population except when its members practise iniquity

NB: i hope it's clear that Allah is the one who talks here , "WE " refer to God...not muslims ..., ARE we going to be blamed for that too or what ? :sarcastic

33:60

If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbours in it but a little while. 33:61 Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter.

The hypocrites are those who betrayed the islamic community, spyed on it , Aided the enemy for its destroying...., What is the Penalty for betrayal nowadays ?!

 

[Popeyesays]

popeyesays you are aware that Saudis strictly filter iinternet content and Baha'i sites are one of the resticted areas, i must commend you on your defence of a religion (Islam) which interpreted in some countries would put your life in peril, i think you would be safer in China than you would be in Saudi Arabia

I checked it out they are missing major Bahai writing sites in their blockage. I won' mention which ones specifically.
You can find a list of which ones they block at:
Documentation of Internet Filtering in Saudi Arabia

Regards,
Scott

 

[credance]

Actually the action of killing unjustly does cast a serious light on the condition of the iman of a muslim. This hadith of the prophet comes to mind:


Narrated Jarir: The Prophet said to me during Hajjat-al-Wida': Let the people keep quiet and listen. Then he said (addressing the people), "Do not (become infidels) revert to disbelief after me by striking the necks (cutting the throats) of one another (killing each other)."



Here rasulullah (saw) turns to the people as a whole where he was at, and addressed them with the above messege. He linked the killing unjustly of people with kufr. So in fact the iman of a muslim becomes suspect when they engage in such dreadful behaviour as killing. Islam defines defensive acts of war as legitimate, as well as other forms of self-defense that may turn lethal. Islam defines killing when there is no legitimate provocation, and it is the intentional murder of an individual or group without ISLAMIC validity. The valid reasons for the use of lethal force are unambiguous and clear. Islam promotes peace but it does not promote pacifism.....at all. Those are two totally different ideologies.

When is acceptable for a small faction to decide when it is time for killing? Who decides when an act of war is legitimized.
Islam has no need to be at odds with the world.
The results of Al-queda and Taliban are apparent in Pakistan.
Just like the KKK in America. They try to use the power of ones faith by burning a cross. But their message rings false. Their true goals and doctrine are designed to fit an agenda of their own choosing.
Muslims are speaking out against this.
Are we listening?
Is Al-queda listening?

 

[kai]

maro what was the point of your post its too long to quote and doesnt get your point across

Credance islam is at odds with itself with sunni on shia violence and vice versa