What do you feel is wrong with Islam?

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Define Islam.

Do I need to define Islam in orer for you to understand the logic of what I wrote? Do you agree or disagree that things have criteria?


Islam is the belief that there is nothing worthy of worship besides Allah and that Muhammad is His messenger. To believe in the books, the angels, the day of judgment, destiny. To accept Islam is not limited to the utterance of words but its acceptance in the mind and heart, and to a large degree its action. A person who claims followinf Islam is obliged to not only acknowledge it with his/her tongue, but to acknowlege it with the mind and heart, this leads to acting out the precepts of Islam as it was revealed. Since this knowledge is with us, it is not difficult to judge whether or not the actions taken by a muslim is Islamic. Islam has a set criteria that is unambiguous. For instance to believe in the oneness of Allah is a main criteria. If a person says they are muslim, but believes that Jesus is the literal son of Allah, then they have effectively breached the criteria of belief of muslims. If this peron does not bring that belief into accordance with Islam, then they are not muslim. This goes for actions as well. A muslim may commit an act of disbelief without becomming a disbeliever. For example to rape someone is as act of disbelief, because it goes outside of the clear teachings of Islam that rape is not permissible. The person can remian muslim, but this does not excuse the act. The act of rape is wholly unislamic. When a muslim says something is unislamic, we mean that it has not been ordained nor declared permissible in the religion. A muslim can be very islamic in their daily lives, and others can be unislamic in their daily lives as well. Being a muslim does not by default make them faultless in their application of Islamic principles and rules.

 

[YmirGF]

Baha`i's are shown that the ungodly acts of the clergy will eventually destroy Islam, and only the Prophet and the Book will be left behind

I, for one, would be very interested to read up on this Scott. Can you supply a link or three? (I am serious, btw.)

PS: Thanks for your reply to my questions. It is appreciated. Oddly, his explanation mirrors my own experiences in many ways. Interestingly put, to say the least. No, not quite how I would put it, as I have a different world view and a different understanding, but I certainly know precisely what he is attempting to describe. It is most certainly a fascinating view, I assure you, and I freely admit he expresses that view very nicely.

 

[Captain Civic]

Sorry, the Taliban is a political party composed of the extremist factions who overthrew the government left behind after the Soviets pulled out. They play the religion card to garner support among the ignorant mobs.

:yes:

Which is why religions get a bad name. It's hard to claim Bush is Christian.

 

[kai]

Do I need to define Islam in Ore for you to understand the logic of what I wrote? Do you agree or disagree that things have criteria?


Islam is the belief that there is nothing worthy of worship besides Allah and that Muhammad is His messenger. To believe in the books, the angels, the day of judgment, destiny. To accept Islam is not limited to the utterance of words but its acceptance in the mind and heart, and to a large degree its action. A person who claims follow inf Islam is obliged to not only acknowledge it with his/her tongue, but to acknowledge it with the mind and heart, this leads to acting out the precepts of Islam as it was revealed. Since this knowledge is with us, it is not difficult to judge whether or not the actions taken by a Muslim is Islamic. Islam has a set criteria that is unambiguous. For instance to believe in the oneness of Allah is a main criteria. If a person says they are muslim, but believes that Jesus is the literal son of Allah, then they have effectively breached the criteria of belief of Muslims. If this Peron does not bring that belief into accordance with Islam, then they are not muslim. This goes for actions as well. A muslim may commit an act of disbelief without becomming a disbeliever. For example to rape someone is as act of disbelief, because it goes outside of the clear teachings of Islam that rape is not permissible. The person can remian muslim, but this does not excuse the act. The act of rape is wholly unislamic. When a Muslim says something is unislamic, we mean that it has not been ordained nor declared permissible in the religion. A muslim can be very islamic in their daily lives, and others can be unislamic in their daily lives as well. Being a muslim does not by default make them faultless in their application of Islamic principles and rules.

a very impressive get out clause, it doesn't matter what any one claims they are doing , or any action that a government takes they are still Muslims but have acted outside of Islam. brilliant in its simplicity , it answers all criticism, it answers all accusations the perfect parry, you have to admire it

 

[Popeyesays]

a very impressive get out clause, it doesn't matter what any one claims they are doing , or any action that a government takes they are still Muslims but have acted outside of Islam. brilliant in its simplicity , it answers all criticism, it answers all accusations the perfect parry, you have to admire it

Its a very human thing, after all. Hypocrisy was not invented by the Islamic culture, nor ordained by Muhammed.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

I, for one, would be very interested to read up on this Scott. Can you supply a link or three? (I am serious, btw.)

PS: Thanks for your reply to my questions. It is appreciated. Oddly, his explanation mirrors my own experiences in many ways. Interestingly put, to say the least. No, not quite how I would put it, as I have a different world view and a different understanding, but I certainly know precisely what he is attempting to describe. It is most certainly a fascinating view, I assure you, and I freely admit he expresses that view very nicely.

.

I would suggest The Promised Day is Come and The World Order of Baha`u'llah both written by Shoghi Effendi.

This horde of degraded priests, stigmatized by Bahá'u'lláh as "doctors of doubt," as the "abject manifestations of the Prince of Darkness," as "wolves" and "pharaohs," as "focal centers of hellish fire," as "voracious beasts preying upon the carrion of the souls of men," and, as testified by their own traditions, as both the sources and victims of mischief, have joined the various swarms of shah-zadihs, of emirs, and princelings of fallen dynasties -- a witness and a warning unto all nations of what must, sooner or later, befall those wielders of earthly dominion, be it royal or ecclesiastic, who might dare to challenge or persecute the appointed Channels and Embodiments of Divine authority and power.

Islam, at once the progenitor and persecutor of the Faith of Bahá'u'lláh, is, if we read aright the signs of the times, only beginning to sustain the impact of this invincible and triumphant Faith. We need only recall the nineteen hundred years of abject misery and dispersion which they, who only for the short space of three years persecuted the Son of God, have had to endure, and are still enduring. We may well ask ourselves, with mingled feelings of dread and awe, how severe must 100 be the tribulations of those who, during no less than fifty years, have, "at every moment tormented with a fresh torment" Him Who is the Father, and who have, in addition, made His Herald -- Himself a Manifestation of God -- to quaff, in such tragic circumstances, the cup of martyrdom.

(Shoghi Effendi, The Promised Day is Come, p. 99)

Regards,

Scott

 

[doppelganger]

.

I would suggest The Promised Day is Come and The World Order of Baha`u'llah both written by Shoghi Effendi.

Except disrespect for people and mock righteousness has crept in amongst his followers just as it does with everyone else. I would suggest the Promised Day has come and gone already, unless one has the courage to revive it daily.

 

[Popeyesays]

Except disrespect for people and mock righteousness has crept in amongst his followers just as it does with everyone else. I would suggest the Promised Day has come and gone already, unless one has the courage to revive it daily.

Shoghi Effendi was not a Prophet and was only explaining Baha`u'llah's words regarding the subject.

And I completely agree that the Promised day is something that must be renewed within one's self every day. When it is not, then we experience exactly what Shoghi Effendi was describing--either as victim or perpetrator.

Transformation is not a unique event, but a continuous process of successes and failures.

Regards,
Scott

 

[kai]

Its a very human thing, after all. Hypocrisy was not invented by the Islamic culture, nor ordained by Muhammed.

Regards,
Scott

just perfected

 

[doppelganger]

Transformation is not a unique event, but a continuous process of successes and failures.

Well put, Scott.

 

[Popeyesays]

just perfected

Yeah, how do you explain that it is a Greek word, not Arabic?

Regards,

Scott

 

[doppelganger]

Yeah, how do you explain that it is a Greek word, not Arabic?

Muslim scholars were very interested in Greek. Much of the West's rediscovery of Greek philosophy was the result of the Muslim world's continued fascination with it while Europe was in the "Dark Ages."

 

[kai]

Yeah, how do you explain that it is a Greek word, not Arabic?

Regards,

Scott

give me a clue , i have no idea what you are talking about ?:sorry1:

 

[Autodidact]

Actually those who orchestrated it were very cynical, seeing Baha`i's as a threat to their livlihoods and a useful scapegoat to misdirect the wrath of the people away from themselves. That is politics, not religion. The relatively ignorant mobs who did the deeds were just as much patsies as the victims of the aggression.

Regards,
Scott

I see. You know what is True Islam better than actual Muslims. I'll be sure to let them know.

 

[doppelganger]

give me a clue , i have no idea what you are talking about ?:sorry1:

He's playing word games with you; the word in play is your use of the word "hypocrisy" which he used to set up a joke. If "hypocrisy" is a Greek word not an Arabic one, Muslims could not have "perfected it." Though the joke is a little off, because neither "hypocrisy" nor its commonly-accepted modern meaning is Greek. It is based on the Greek word hypokrisis which means to portray a character or play a role like in a staged play. That in turn, interestingly, is derived from hypo and kreinen, the former roughly being equivalent to "under" and the latter meaning something like "to decide."

 

[kai]

He's playing word games with you; the word in play is your use of the word "hypocrisy" which he used to set up a joke. If "hypocrisy" is a Greek word not an Arabic one, Muslims could not have "perfected it." Though the joke is a little off, because neither "hypocrisy" nor its commonly-accepted modern meaning is Greek. It is based on the Greek word hypokrisis which means to portray a character or play a role like in a staged play. That in turn, interestingly, is derived from hypo and kreinen, the former roughly being equivalent to "under" and the latter meaning something like "to decide."

thanks, i did think thats what he meant but i wasn't sure, i suppose it deflects attention from the statement i made ,but its a good joke, a little too intellectual for the mundane but OK

 

[Popeyesays]

I see. You know what is True Islam better than actual Muslims. I'll be sure to let them know.

Well, dear lady, I have never made a secret of that--so I'm sure they know already. I've been cursed frequently, but no bodily harm has been offered by muslims.

Oddly it was racist holocaust deniers that came closer to doing anything about my opinions as to the reality of the holocaust than any muslim ever has about my opinions on muslim clergy and rulers.

Fortunately holocaust denial has been pretty well debunked and I only had a microscopic contribution to doing that.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

Muslim scholars were very interested in Greek. Much of the West's rediscovery of Greek philosophy was the result of the Muslim world's continued fascination with it while Europe was in the "Dark Ages."

Absolutely true. And another evidence of how tolerant Islam was when it was closer to Muhammed and the institutions of the faith was not suffering from isolation, senescence and politicization.

Regards,
Scott

 

[England my lionheart]

Absolutely true. And another evidence of how tolerant Islam was when it was closer to Muhammed and the institutions of the faith was not suffering from isolation, senescence and politicization.

Regards,
Scott

Very tollerant indeed especially the police when they cane the women which is more tollerable than being beaten or shot with an ak47,sorry sorry these are only pretend muslims so it matters not

 

[Popeyesays]

Very tollerant indeed especially the police when they cane the women which is more tollerable than being beaten or shot with an ak47,sorry sorry these are only pretend muslims so it matters not

Don't you realize we are speaking of the 7th-14th century AD?

Shooting people with an AK 47 was not a possibility until 1947 AD when Kalashnikov re-design the German SG-44.

Besides the AK 47 is becoming rarer and rarer around the world as the weapons just wear out and have long been replaced with the AK 74 and AKM which are mostly chambered with the 5.45mm round instead of the 7.62mm Soviet short.

By the way, both The Bab and Baha`u'llah were bastinadoed, which is caning the bottoms of the feet until they are bleeding and broken. Baha`u'llah was bastinadoed twice actually. Neither of them were women.

Regards,
Scott