What do you feel is wrong with Islam?

[England my lionheart]

Yes, they have given up religion for the rewards of political and social influence and power.

Regards,

Scott

So are you saying that their followers are political like the gullible one who strap load of explosives to themselves blow up a lot of innocent people because they have a place in paradise waiting for them,no they are muslims they read the qur'an they pray at a mosque and they do these things in allahs name.

 

[TashaN]

Since the topic of this thread is, "What do you feel is wrong with Islam?" and since the annual pilgrimage of Hajj is only a few days away, I may state that it has always baffled me why goats, sheep and camels are sacrificed at the end of Hajj. Commemorating Abraham’s sacrifice is worthy and Allah was mighty pleased with Abraham. But fattening goats and slaughtering it as special ritual is, according to me, a mindless and uncultured act, if by culture we mean the refining of man to greater sensibilities.

What's wrong with feeding the poor?

 

[TashaN]

Please read the following threads for more information:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/islam/60176-eid-ul-adha-submission-consecration.html

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/islam/43965-hajj.html#post683089

 

[mingmty]

Its extremist followers, other than that I have no problem with Islam.

 

[K.Venugopal]

What's wrong with feeding the poor?

What if poverty is finally alleviated? Would the ritual still be continued?

 

[zenzero]

Friend Venu,
You know very well that anything when it becomes an organistion then egos/minds come into play which is true even for business/ charitable/ etc besides religious.
That way one can keep finding faults BUT the question is does that help ME grow to get down deep inside me where the source of life is waiting for me?
The question one should ask, what is wrong with ME?
Nothing is wrong with you, my friend.
Its the MIND each one has that is doing all these tricks.
Silence that very MINd and you are HOMe, you are one with everything/existence/nature/god/etc.
Love & rgds

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Friend Venu,
You know very well that anything when it becomes an organistion then egos/minds come into play which is true even for business/ charitable/ etc besides religious.
That way one can keep finding faults BUT the question is does that help ME grow to get down deep inside me where the source of life is waiting for me?
The question one should ask, what is wrong with ME?
Nothing is wrong with you, my friend.
Its the MIND each one has that is doing all these tricks.
Silence that very MINd and you are HOMe, you are one with everything/existence/nature/god/etc.
Love & rgds

Congratulations for migrating the shortest path to my ignore list ...

 

[Peace]

Since the topic of this thread is, "What do you feel is wrong with Islam?" and since the annual pilgrimage of Hajj is only a few days away, I may state that it has always baffled me why goats, sheep and camels are sacrificed at the end of Hajj. Commemorating Abraham’s sacrifice is worthy and Allah was mighty pleased with Abraham. But fattening goats and slaughtering it as special ritual is, according to me, a mindless and uncultured act, if by culture we mean the refining of man to greater sensibilities.

K.Venugopal]

What if poverty is finally alleviated? Would the ritual still be continued?

[/FONT]

The symbolism is in the attitude - a willingness to make sacrifices in our lives in order to stay on the Straight Path. Each of us makes small sacrifices, giving up things that are fun or important to us. A true Muslim, one who submits his or herself completely to the Lord, is willing to follow Allah's commands completely and obediently. It is this strength of heart, purity in faith, and willing obedience that our Lord desires from us.


During the celebration of Eid al-Adha, Muslims commemorate and remember Abraham's trials, by themselves slaughtering an animal such as a sheep, camel, or goat. The meat from the sacrifice of Eid al-Adha is mostly given away to others. One-third is eaten by immediate family and relatives, one-third is given away to friends, and one-third is donated to the poor. The act symbolizes our willingness to give up things that are of benefit to us or close to our hearts, in order to follow Allah's commands. It also symbolizes our willingness to give up some of our own bounties, in order to strengthen ties of friendship and help those who are in need. We recognize that all blessings come from Allah, and we should open our hearts and share with others.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Friend Venu,
You know very well that anything when it becomes an organistion then egos/minds come into play which is true even for business/ charitable/ etc besides religious.
That way one can keep finding faults BUT the question is does that help ME grow to get down deep inside me where the source of life is waiting for me?
The question one should ask, what is wrong with ME?
Nothing is wrong with you, my friend.
Its the MIND each one has that is doing all these tricks.
Silence that very MINd and you are HOMe, you are one with everything/existence/nature/god/etc.
Love & rgds

Fantastic. I would have offered you all the frubals in the kitty, but I've decided not to touch frubals in the virtual world as I've decided not to touch money in the real world. So I simply want to say you've put in a nutshell all the wisdom of the sages. You are indeed Sage Zenzero.

 

[K.Venugopal]

The symbolism is in the attitude - a willingness to make sacrifices in our lives in order to stay on the Straight Path. Each of us makes small sacrifices, giving up things that are fun or important to us. A true Muslim, one who submits his or herself completely to the Lord, is willing to follow Allah's commands completely and obediently. It is this strength of heart, purity in faith, and willing obedience that our Lord desires from us.


During the celebration of Eid al-Adha, Muslims commemorate and remember Abraham's trials, by themselves slaughtering an animal such as a sheep, camel, or goat. The meat from the sacrifice of Eid al-Adha is mostly given away to others. One-third is eaten by immediate family and relatives, one-third is given away to friends, and one-third is donated to the poor. The act symbolizes our willingness to give up things that are of benefit to us or close to our hearts, in order to follow Allah's commands. It also symbolizes our willingness to give up some of our own bounties, in order to strengthen ties of friendship and help those who are in need. We recognize that all blessings come from Allah, and we should open our hearts and share with others.

But why do you want to make the poor goat a scapegoat? Why don't you, like Abraham did, prepare to sacrifice your own son (or your neighbour's son!) and see if Allah will sacrifice a goat before you actually get to your sacrifice? I am sorry if my question seems rather abrupt but I am seeking to get to the truth.

 

[K.Venugopal]

mr venu gopal
i beleive tht ur not informed well.............
firstly these animals r in large proportions r given as food to the poor,the underpriviledged.....
2.if u stop slaughtering animals this would create a problem for u sir,overpopulation of cattle.
i dont get it!! u havent made it clear ..r u against slaughtering any animal or only against many animals........
if ur against any animal i could start a veg vs non veg deabte here....but even if u r against a lot of cattle being slaughtered u need to understand tht it is largest gathering of the beleivers(if i cut a goat in my backyard u dont have a problem but if i do it at hajj u have a problem:i beleive with all respects double standards...

Firstly you must thank Allah that there are poor people to absolve you of your guilt of massacre of dumb animals. Secondly, thanks for taking care of the overpopulation of cattle. What about overpopulation of humans? Hajj is not the largest gathering of believers - that credit goes to Kumbh Mela in India, only the believers are Hindus and though 80% of Hindus are meat-eaters, during Kumbh Mela not a single animal sacrifice takes place.

There are no double standards. Individuals may be at various levels of evolution and may prefer non-veg to veg. But when we are talking of religions functions, to be not only non-veg, which can be understood because congregations are made up of individuals, but to have a sacred ritual of animal slaughter at sacred Mecca is somewhat unbecoming from the sensibilities point of view.

 

[K.Venugopal]

tht is only ur supposition......obviously tht's never gonna happen...poverty is here to stay on this planet until the end of time!!!

How much you seem to be clapping your hands in glee. "Therefore I can have my animal sacrifice till the end of time!!!"

 

[K.Venugopal]

first of all poverty is a human creation....if god gives u a solution ,u blame him for creating a problem he never created!!!!! (it's like ur blaming god for global warming at this pace)

According to you, God's solution for poverty is to slaughter goats during Hajj and distribute 1/3rd of it to the poor.

'overpopulation of humans'...tht's hilarious.......the exponential rise of humans is not even close to comparison as tht of cattle(who start mating at the age of 2)

I think by linking the sacrifice of goats commemorating Abraham’s sacrifice to a method of solving the overpopulation of cattle is truly stretching the logic. Is it said in the Quran that Allah intended to do away with excess cattle by this ritual or is it your argument to justify an malevolent and uncompassionate act in the name of a benevolent and compassionate Allah?

when i say largest gathering of beleivers my reference is beleivers of islam..anyways if u say no animal sacrifice takes place ..well but tht does not deter u frm not eating vegetarian food(my dear even plants cry as they die,even they feel pain)......so it is double standards eventually whether u try to justify animal slaughter in congregations as rit or wrong(tht means i can slaughter a goat when im alone but i cant do it when there r people around me).

Again the meat eater is justifying his lack of culture (if culture means heightening of sensibilities) when compared to a vegetarian by arguing that vegetables have life. What then is wrong with cannibalism? Nothing, except we would associate such folks with a lack of culture. Though I am not a Jain, I consider their religious practices of not seeking to kill even a fly a culture that is emulation-worthy. One must have humility to accept others can be better than us at least in some ways.

with no offence it is rather bombastic to say to be holy by making the waters unholy!!!!and do very little to reapair tht problem!!

That the waters of Ganges is holy is an article of faith among many Hindus. A harmless article of faith, I would say, when compared to slaughtering cattle in the name of Allah and justifying it as a method of reducing cattle population!

 

[zenzero]

Friend Venu,
Thanks/no thanks for everything/nothing.
Must say that you are very organised and methodical in approach rather your mind is.
[eveident from the way you answer each response].
Fantastic qualities there.
Can surely vouch that the same qualities used for getting inwards will pay rich dividends.
Try it. become a sage yourself.
Though am an ordinary being [no sage] am willing to be of any assistance that would be possible in your trails and tribulations. The god in you is just waiting for you my dear friend; please respond to him.
Love & rgds

 

[angellous_evangellous]

***MOD ADVISORY***

Please refrain from personal comments and stay on topic. Several off-topic posts have been removed.

Thanks,
A_E

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

But does'nt this go back to the point that i made earlier,that all the religious texts and i am not singleing islam out i include the bible and judaism are all open to interpretation and the proof is that all these religions have a different understandings of them.

Yes and no, the difference is unlike in Judaism and christianity where the person is free to give their own personal interpretation. In islam the interpretation is given. You have to understand it the way the people who brought it understand it. and follow their way. it is clear to see who is doing what is right and wrong in the religion if you have the knowledge of what and how the Messenger and his companions

For example shiite ,sunni,sufi,protestant,catholic,orthodox jew etc,if these different books were exactly clear there would not be the afore mentioned there would be one type of muslim one type of christian and one type of jew.

there is in Islam. the Messenger peace be upon him said in a hadith about the sects. That the jews will divide themselves into 71 sects, the Christians 72 sects, and his nation the muslims will divide themselves into 73 sects only one of them is going to paradise. that is the group that follows the Quran and the rules and regulations therein and my sunnah or my way meaning. which means do, perform, understand, interpret and follow the religion the way he did. We are not allowed to interpret it the way we want. When you see major differences in the Authentic Islamic texts, the Quran and the Books of sunnah, with other groups literature. Because of the statements of Quran and the Messenger. there are many warnings against adding to the religion, taking away from, making statements without verifiable evidence, many narrations telling of us to verify all things we hear and to only do what the Messenger did. Now when you look at our text like the Quran it has not changed. The bible has constantly been changed and altered according to whatever groups interpretation they feel is correct regardless of whether they have verified the statements or whether the testimony of the witnessess is consistent. they can take out verses leave them in. Different groups having different scriptures all claiming to be from Apostles or students of them. The quran is coming from the source, the hadith is coming from the source. and it is not permissible to change it. so if you come with something different then what they come with and established and sealed as the religion then it is not questioned.

the bible is not what is narrated by Issa or his disciples. These books are a compilation of writings by people who were not there when it happened. Some are a few centuries removed, and with no eye witness accounts.

 

[England my lionheart]

Yes and no, the difference is unlike in Judaism and christianity where the person is free to give their own personal interpretation. In islam the interpretation is given. You have to understand it the way the people who brought it understand it. and follow their way. it is clear to see who is doing what is right and wrong in the religion if you have the knowledge of what and how the Messenger and his companions

there is in Islam. the Messenger peace be upon him said in a hadith about the sects. That the jews will divide themselves into 71 sects, the Christians 72 sects, and his nation the muslims will divide themselves into 73 sects only one of them is going to paradise. that is the group that follows the Quran and the rules and regulations therein and my sunnah or my way meaning. which means do, perform, understand, interpret and follow the religion the way he did. We are not allowed to interpret it the way we want. When you see major differences in the Authentic Islamic texts, the Quran and the Books of sunnah, with other groups literature. Because of the statements of Quran and the Messenger. there are many warnings against adding to the religion, taking away from, making statements without verifiable evidence, many narrations telling of us to verify all things we hear and to only do what the Messenger did. Now when you look at our text like the Quran it has not changed. The bible has constantly been changed and altered according to whatever groups interpretation they feel is correct regardless of whether they have verified the statements or whether the testimony of the witnessess is consistent. they can take out verses leave them in. Different groups having different scriptures all claiming to be from Apostles or students of them. The quran is coming from the source, the hadith is coming from the source. and it is not permissible to change it. so if you come with something different then what they come with and established and sealed as the religion then it is not questioned.

the bible is not what is narrated by Issa or his disciples. These books are a compilation of writings by people who were not there when it happened. Some are a few centuries removed, and with no eye witness accounts.

Ok i accept that it is comming from the source but it was still written by a man.
The dead sea scrolls which contain the oldest book of isiah by a thousand years includes everything in the old testament except esther but it does have psalms to david that are not in the ot.
This collection of books which is the bible written by jewish people 500 years before the qur'an ,so this leads me to think some of the bible is in the qur'an like lut=sodom and gammorah and other similaritys so i say why should i believe the qur'an n the bible?

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Ok i accept that it is comming from the source but it was still written by a man.

the Quran no, yes in a sense. for the Quran in arabic means the recitation. so it was taught to the Messenger by the angel Gabriel. But since he could not read or write he himself did not write the Quran nor did he come up with the words of Quran himself. these are Allah's words given to him. Saying it is written by man is also in a sense implying that Muhammed himself is the author of it for you say it is written by man and it came from him. Man did not write it meaning he did not author it Muhammed is not the source of the text. Man copied it. So yeah in a sense man wrote it but I think a better way to say it is they copied down the words of Quran authored by Allah through the revelation given to Muhammed through His angel Gabriel. the companions wrote down what Allah revealed to Muhammed, to preserve the recitation of the Quran they had memorized in their minds and hearts. the Prophet himself never wrote or copied any of it. Muhammed did not author the Quran, Man did not author the Quran. So they did not write it meaning they are not the source of it.

The dead sea scrolls which contain the oldest book of isiah by a thousand years includes everything in the old testament except esther but it does have psalms to david that are not in the ot.

Okay... so what is your point. Do we know if they were written by Isaiah. And why is it not used as the manuscript source in the bible since it is oldest version and because of which should be the most accurate.

This collection of books which is the bible written by jewish people 500 years before the qur'an ,so this leads me to think some of the bible is in the qur'an like lut=sodom and gammorah and other similaritys so i say why should i believe the qur'an n the bible?

Uh, yes and no. Literally no they are not the same, but since it is understood they came from the same source. Before the Jewish and Christian alterations of the text they were given. so the stories of course would be similar because of the source. but we have no way of knowing what they kept from the original scriptures and what was taken away unless we have an original copy to source from.

Let us not forget the fact that Muhammed never heard any of this before the revelation. for He could not read or right and never read the christian or jewish traditions. The words of Quran are the words of Allah, not the words of Muhammed, he is not the source of the words and did not write. He was to give this message to the world.

 

[England my lionheart]

the Quran no, yes in a sense. for the Quran in arabic means the recitation. so it was taught to the Messenger by the angel Gabriel. But since he could not read or write he himself did not write the Quran nor did he come up with the words of Quran himself. these are Allah's words given to him. Saying it is written by man is also in a sense implying that Muhammed himself is the author of it for you say it is written by man and it came from him. Man did not write it meaning he did not author it Muhammed is not the source of the text. Man copied it. So yeah in a sense man wrote it but I think a better way to say it is they copied down the words of Quran authored by Allah through the revelation given to Muhammed through His angel Gabriel. the companions wrote down what Allah revealed to Muhammed, to preserve the recitation of the Quran they had memorized in their minds and hearts. the Prophet himself never wrote or copied any of it. Muhammed did not author the Quran, Man did not author the Quran. So they did not write it meaning they are not the source of it.

Okay... so what is your point. Do we know if they were written by Isaiah. And why is it not used as the manuscript source in the bible since it is oldest version and because of which should be the most accurate.


Uh, yes and no. Literally no they are not the same, but since it is understood they came from the same source. Before the Jewish and Christian alterations of the text they were given. so the stories of course would be similar because of the source. but we have no way of knowing what they kept from the original scriptures and what was taken away unless we have an original copy to source from.

Let us not forget the fact that Muhammed never heard any of this before the revelation. for He could not read or right and never read the christian or jewish traditions. The words of Quran are the words of Allah, not the words of Muhammed, he is not the source of the words and did not write. He was to give this message to the world.

Yes i know he did'nt write it as he was illiterate but my point is that it is a leap of faith to believe the Angel Gabriel revealed to him the contents of the qur'an.
For example say my neighbour told me he had a revelation and he was visited by an Angel would i believe him,i doubt it neither would many people.
This is the biggest hurdle for all revealed religions is that they cannot be validated and especially for the qur'an as it cannot be questioned by muslims at all.

 

[England my lionheart]

I've got to say i am dissapointed in islam and the reason for that is it is too restrictive,cannot be questioned and the arguements that come from its followers somewhat rhetorical.
This is much like other religions it is arguably about control.
In politics you can control people up to a point whereas followers of islam seem controlled from birth till death beyond this point.I will use suicide bombers as an example(i am obviously not implying that all muslims are terrorists)they are led to believe that they will go to paradise once the bomb has gone off.
Islam is the only religion that produces suicide bombers,even satanists don't have suicide bombers which leads me to think back to the beauty of it,you cannot change it,question it, which is perfect for the control of these hapless fools.
I think islam is blinkered and cannot see what is around it and only looks inwards,it is restrictive especially in islamic countrys where i would be hard pressed to find somewhere to air my thoughts on the qur'an without being killed and women have few rights.
I think the alarm bells started to go when the fatuah was put on salmond rushdie for the satanic verses and religious leaders calling for holy jihad against the UK and USA .
The other problems are human rights,homosexual and lesbian acts are forbidden although there are muslims who are gay,women in some islamic countrys do not have the same rights as, for example, the women of the west.