What do you feel is wrong with Islam?

[Aasimar]

The Prophet Mohamed slept with a little girl as I recall, that's kinda not cool. I'm just saying.

I'm sorry, I was going to put a long post addressing points, but this thread wore me out. Islam is not for me, I don't believe in God, or Allah, or prophets, or magic, or djinn, and I never will unless some verifiable proof is offered. What I feel is wrong with Islam is it's yet another uncompromising world view that claims to be absolute, when you hold what you feel is the absolute irrevocable truth in your hand, dialogue becomes meaningless. As the saying goes, those who believe absurdities commit atrocities.

 

[K.Venugopal]

So are you implying that Islam permits this. So if Islam does not allow something and people do it can that be considered something in islam. So if Muslims worship Jesus as God is this also Islam? How can something that is not allowed in Islam be considered something wrong with it? Are you saying Islam should allow this injustice?

I understand what you are saying and agree with you. But as a non-Muslim, unless I am given to scholarly studies of Islam, I would naturally see Islam through the actions of its practitioners. Maybe it is unfair to judge a tree by its spoilt fruits but unfortunately it is such fruits (fruitcakes?) that tend to be in the news and catch our attention and make an impression.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

But as a non-Muslim, unless I am given to scholarly studies of Islam, I would naturally see Islam through the actions of its practitioners.

selection bias ...

 

[K.Venugopal]

selection bias ...

See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil...

 

[England my lionheart]

And the salman rushdie fatwah was'nt a bid for the popularity stakes either.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Is it true that some musilms force their women to wear the hajib,my point about stoneage is that along with some other religions,belongs in the past.

Some muslims may do this. but you cannot force them, for one of the conditions for a deed to be accepted is that it is done for Allah. so if they do it for their husbands then their intention is incorrect and runs the chance of not being accepted. As I said some muslims may do this, but this is not what Islam teaches. for you must understand the truth is one thing and what the people are doing is something else.

Sheeplike,well thats easy just look at suicide bombers or the different muslim factions in iraq or iran and its council of exerts and silly PM

Again islam does not permit this. So what are the people doing. something they themselves created. They are doing something other then islam. It is easy and clear to see what is Islam. You just need the knowledge of the Quran and sunnah. Factions are never islam. Islam is not al Qaeda, or the Khawarij, or any of the Sunni, shiites, or sufis groups living today.. Islam is what the Messenger and the Companions of the Prophet of Allah, Muhammed, who was sent by Allah as a guide, a messenger and a warner to mankind. and they are the ones defined as muslims. They are the example of what a muslims is supposed to be. They are the ones who are the example. so to use people living today is crazy.

 

[YmirGF]

They are the ones who are the example. so to use people living today is crazy.

So, are you saying that we cannot even look at you as being an example of what Islam is, as you are alive today.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

I understand what you are saying and agree with you. But as a non-Muslim, unless I am given to scholarly studies of Islam, I would naturally see Islam through the actions of its practitioners.

What kind of sense does that make? so I guess Adolf Hitler is the criterion for measuring christians. Or maybe the actions of this government, Bush, and the UN.

To get the scholarly studies, you need to read to start. Our books and scholarly information is available. You want to talk to a scholar or get the scholarly studies as you say. Here you go. An online islamic university you can attend to learn the religion from scholarly. Arees Institute

this is my teacher, contact him if you want to know. The second thing is when someone tells you something then why don't you try accepting it as their truth instead of mixing your own interpretation of the religion. .

Maybe it is unfair to judge a tree by its spoilt fruits but unfortunately it is such fruits (fruitcakes?) that tend to be in the news and catch our attention and make an impression.

You are not even looking at the fruit. Are you looking at the Messenger of Allah as the example, His companions or those that Allah said got His religion correct. this is who we as muslims look at as the tree and they are the fruits. For they are what happens when people submit. for they are doing Islam. I am not sure what these suicide bombers and kidnappers are doing, but this is not what Muhammed did.

You want a scholarly source yet you always reference the news. I didn't know Bill O'reily and others were scholars on our religion.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

So, are you saying that we cannot even look at you as being an example of what Islam is, as you are alive today.

Exactly. they are the example of isalm

you remember the hadith i gave you by Abdullah ibn Masa'ood when he was talking to a Tabi'een(second best generation) if you want to follow a path, follow the way of those who are dead. for the living among you may fail in their test.

so they are the criterion on how to deal with the tests, people today fail them.

 

[England my lionheart]

Some muslims may do this. but you cannot force them, for one of the conditions for a deed to be accepted is that it is done for Allah. so if they do it for their husbands then their intention is incorrect and runs the chance of not being accepted. As I said some muslims may do this, but this is not what Islam teaches. for you must understand the truth is one thing and what the people are doing is something else.

Again islam does not permit this. So what are the people doing. something they themselves created. They are doing something other then islam. It is easy and clear to see what is Islam. You just need the knowledge of the Quran and sunnah. Factions are never islam. Islam is not al Qaeda, or the Khawarij, or any of the Sunni, shiites, or sufis groups living today.. Islam is what the Messenger and the Companions of the Prophet of Allah, Muhammed, who was sent by Allah as a guide, a messenger and a warner to mankind. and they are the ones defined as muslims. They are the example of what a muslims is supposed to be. They are the ones who are the example. so to use people living today is crazy.

But does'nt this go back to the point that i made earlier,that all the religious texts and i am not singleing islam out i include the bible and judaism are all open to interpretation and the proof is that all these religions have a different understandings of them.
For example shiite ,sunni,sufi,protestant,catholic,orthodox jew etc,if these different books were exactly clear there would not be the afore mentioned there would be one type of muslim one type of christian and one type of jew.

 

[K.Venugopal]

What kind of sense does that make? so I guess Adolf Hitler is the criterion for measuring christians. Or maybe the actions of this government, Bush, and the UN.

Adolf Hitler did not commit his crimes in the name of Christianity. He was more on to race consciousness and conjured a pure Aryan race and all that. But Osama Bin Laden is doing everything in the name of Islam. He and his Taliban buddies want to create Islamic states with Shariat as the constitution.

To get the scholarly studies, you need to read to start. Our books and scholarly information is available. You want to talk to a scholar or get the scholarly studies as you say. Here you go. An online islamic university you can attend to learn the religion from scholarly. Arees Institute this is my teacher, contact him if you want to know.

I will take your advice and look up Arees Institute.

The second thing is when someone tells you something then why don't you try accepting it as their truth instead of mixing your own interpretation of the religion.

You are saying we should not be prejudiced. I entirely agree with you. Nevertheless, if we have doubts, wouldn't we continue questioning?

You are not even looking at the fruit. Are you looking at the Messenger of Allah as the example, His companions or those that Allah said got His religion correct. this is who we as muslims look at as the tree and they are the fruits. For they are what happens when people submit. for they are doing Islam. I am not sure what these suicide bombers and kidnappers are doing, but this is not what Muhammed did.

You seem to be saying that except for Mohammad and his companions, it is almost as if Islam has not worked on the rest.

 

[Popeyesays]

I find NOTHING wrong with the revealed word of God--the Qur'an, nor the Prophet Himself.

It is only when men have seen fit to misinterpret the word of God and the teachings of the Prophet for their own purposes that any problem arisers.

That said--this is true with all revelaled religion.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

But does'nt this go back to the point that i made earlier,that all the religious texts and i am not singleing islam out i include the bible and judaism are all open to interpretation and the proof is that all these religions have a different understandings of them.
For example shiite ,sunni,sufi,protestant,catholic,orthodox jew etc,if these different books were exactly clear there would not be the afore mentioned there would be one type of muslim one type of christian and one type of jew.

And no test of His servants either . . . . . .

" No God is there but Thee. Indeed shouldst Thou desire to confer blessing upon a servant Thou wouldst blot out from the realm of his heart every mention or disposition except Thine Own mention; and shouldst Thou ordain evil for a servant by reason of that which his hands have unjustly wrought before Thy face, Thou wouldst test him with the benefits of this world and of the next that he might become preoccupied therewith and forget Thy remembrance. GLORY be unto Thee, O Lord, Thou Who hast brought into being all created things, through the power of Thy behest. O Lord! Assist those who have renounced all else but Thee, and grant them a mighty victory. Send down upon them, O Lord, the concourse of the angels in heaven and earth and all that is between, to aid Thy servants, to succour and strengthen them, to enable them to achieve success, to sustain them, to invest them with glory. . . .+ The Bab

Regards,
Scott

 

[England my lionheart]

I find NOTHING wrong with the revealed word of God--the Qur'an, nor the Prophet Himself.

It is only when men have seen fit to misinterpret the word of God and the teachings of the Prophet for their own purposes that any problem arisers.

That said--this is true with all revelaled religion.

Regards,
Scott

This substantiates what i said ,if it was clear what is written there could only be on interpretation and therefore a single united religion.
The problem with islam is it has the worst reputation for extremism and most of the islamic countrys do little to prevent this extremism some even support it like iran.

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

Adolf Hitler did not commit his crimes in the name of Christianity. He was more on to race consciousness and conjured a pure Aryan race and all that. But Osama Bin Laden is doing everything in the name of Islam. He and his Taliban buddies want to create Islamic states with Shariat as the constitution.

n Mein Kampf Hitler writes that Jesus "made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross." Hitler rejected the idea of Jesus' redemptive suffering, stating in 1927:
"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter."

I believe that ur statement was wrong.

 

[England my lionheart]

n Mein Kampf Hitler writes that Jesus "made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross." Hitler rejected the idea of Jesus' redemptive suffering, stating in 1927:
"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter."

I believe that ur statement was wrong.

I the SS you were not allowed religious belief as hitler thought it was a sign of weakness and was more into being a meglomaniac.

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

I the SS you were not allowed religious belief as hitler thought it was a sign of weakness and was more into being a meglomaniac.

Well his personal statement is quite clear in his book where he clearly tells: that he killed jews on basis of christianity .

 

[Popeyesays]

n Mein Kampf Hitler writes that Jesus "made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross." Hitler rejected the idea of Jesus' redemptive suffering, stating in 1927:
"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter."

I believe that ur statement was wrong.

You;re taking q political tract which Hitler wrote trying to curry favor with large power blocks within GERMAN society. The Roman Catholic Church was one of those power blocks. By 1940 Hitler no longer cared whether the church would be sympathetic to him.

I've done a number of scholarly papers on the rise of the Reich and the history of the second world war. You are talking through your hat here. Hitler was opposed to communism, and picking on the Jews of Germany and Europe was an easy way to mobilize public sentiment against communism. He simply blamed communism on the Jews, who were largely not part of German society until after the Treaty of Versailles.

It was the "Big Lie" in practice since most Russian intellectuals who were purged from the early communist party were of Jewish ethnic descent.

Hitler was a politician and he could not have cared less about Christianity. in fact worked very hard to purge Christianity from the German society.

Regards,

Scott

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

You;re taking q political tract which Hitler wrote trying to curry favor with large power blocks within GERMAN society. The Roman Catholic Church was one of those power blocks. By 1940 Hitler no longer cared whether the church would be sympathetic to him.

I've done a number of scholarly papers on the rise of the Reich and the history of the second world war. You are talking through your hat here. Hitler was opposed to communism, and picking on the Jews of Germany and Europe was an easy way to mobilize public sentiment against communism. He simply blamed communism on the Jews, who were largely not part of German society until after the Treaty of Versailles.

It was the "Big Lie" in practice since most Russian intellectuals who were purged from the early communist party were of Jewish ethnic descent.

Hitler was a politician and he could not have cared less about Christianity. in fact worked very hard to purge Christianity from the German society.

Regards,

Scott

Truth comes out atlast.Hitler was killing jews for political purposes and in his book, propagated that it was his duty as christian.
Similar case with people like Osama bin Laden, don't you think? So why blame Islam for it?

 

[England my lionheart]

Truth comes out atlast.Hitler was killing jews for political purposes and in his book, propagated that it was his duty as christian.
Similar case with people like Osama bin Laden, don't you think? So why blame Islam for it?

Because islam does nothing about it as thye majority hate both israel and america,if it were any other religion people within it would speak out but islam is very quiet about it.