What do you gain from criticism of a religious teaching you do not follow or believe in?

[Audie]

What @Twilight Hue doesn't appear to realize is that his version of "helping people" is really no different than proselytizing.

So all " discussion" that isnt affirming whatvsomeone believes is proselytizing?

 

[PureX]

Seems weird, but so predictable, that you would manage to come up with something like that.

I "managed to come up with" a pretty strait forward observation, that you managed to avoid addressing. Or even considering, I'm guessing.

 

[PureX]

Attacking isn't the same as criticism. If it was, wouldn't you be equally guilty of attacking the beliefs of the poster you replied to?

All I've done so far is ask questions. If those question sound critical, then perhaps that's a judgment on your part.

 

[Twilight Hue]

What @Twilight Hue doesn't appear to realize is that his version of "helping people" is really no different than proselytizing.

Well I guess one man's talking snake, magical trees, talking donkeys, unicorns, wooden boats with all the world's animals on board, raising the dead, people rising into the sky among many more amazing tales of wonder and intrigue would never stand up to anothers unhelpful proselytizing about reality and factual science.

 

[PureX]

When did i say that? Oh i didn't, you made it up didn't you?

However if someone attacks me then i feel entitled to defend myself, as you may have noticed in the past

Is someone else proclaiming what they believe to be true, but that you don't believe to be true, an attack on what you believe to be true? How about if they claim that you should believe their truth to be the truth?

 

[PureX]

What @Twilight Hue doesn't appear to realize is that his version of "helping people" is really no different than proselytizing.

Not just him, but many here, it seems.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What do you expect to gain from critiquing people who critique religious beliefs?

{QUOTE="PureX, post: 7569888, member: 5255"]So, you see any belief that doesn’t comport with your own as opposition to yours? Opposition that you feel must then be countered?
But why do you assume that there must be only one way to perceive/believe reality … and that way should be yours?[/QUOTE]Kindly note what HonestJoe was asking. I gave a honest response to it. If someone critiques my religious beliefs, then I will respond. If people have different views, I will have no problem with that. I encounter that even in my own religion.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

This thread is toward the people in RF who every day create OP critiquing any religious teaching they don't believe in or follow themselves.

The indisputable fact about religious ideas of God, afterlife, realms of the supernatural, etc. is that if any of them compete or conflict on ANY level then one of them (and, let's remember, possibly both/all) are wrong. That's wrong as in, if the subscribers of these ideas are going around sharing them and earning converts to their ideas, then they are spreading false information. I have a problem with this on a very fundamental level. It violates my personal principles in ways that I simply cannot abide by. And so, I can't sit idly by when goobers start spouting off nonsense that they cannot possibly know the truth of for sure, and expecting that people should just accept this, or should not challenge them. OF COURSE you are going to be challenged! Holy crap. This is a "duh" of the most egregious kind. As a religious person concerned with sharing their ideas with others, that person is literally BOUND to be found presenting ideas that are in conflict not just with other ideas of the people they might present them to, but they will many times be found presenting ideas that are in conflict with reality itself. So, yes... duh that they will be challenged. Super duper duh to the millionth power.

Question:
What do you gain from it?

My honest and sincere hope? I hope to sow a few seeds of doubt in the believer, so that they question whether or not they can truly claim knowledge about the subject they are going on about. I hope that they think twice before presenting their ideas, or at least do not do so until they have actually found sufficient, shareable, repeatable information that serves as compelling evidence of their claims. I hope that if they cannot produce such information/evidence that they STOP talking about their ideas in the public sphere, and stop trying to sway others to accept and believe in their ideas also. I hope that people adopt skeptical mindsets and challenge information they are presented with that does not have substantial backing. This is what I hope for. You are free to critique, challenge, or even mock my attempts. See if it affects me like criticism of religion seems to affect you. Go for it!

Are your OP made so you can learn from believers, or just to mock people you disagree with?

Mocking is only a single tool toward attempting to achieve the end goal. The end goal is NEVER EVER "mocking." That just isn't so. I know of religious people who would love to frame it up that way, so that the nonbeliever can easily be dismissed, and their questions ignored because the nonbeliever is then "a bad person." This is idiocy. The message and questions still stand, regardless if you took offense or not. Regardless if you got your feelings hurt or not.

Does it matter to you that some people believe and live their life differently to what you do?

It matters to me if they believe what may very well be falsehoods and are intent on sharing this with others, whose principles and directions of life then change to very possibly affect my own life. Yes. That matters to me.

When a believer as you to stop the harrasment, why do you keep pushing? Don't you have respect for other people?

Do you know how many times I have seen simple lines of questioning and points raised to display the foolishness of certain ideas be called out as "persecution" (what a joke) or "harassment?" Too many times - that's how many. This sort of conflation of the challenging of ideas with "insult" is a mark of shame on humanity. I am dead serious. It is disgusting. Get over yourselves. Your ideas are not you, and YOU are not important in any objective sense. Sure you can become important to myself, or to anyone on Earth. But your intrinsic value sits around the level of "human" - which isn't worth very much, if I am being brutally honest. And this is coming from a dedicated, happy-to-be human himself.

 

[PureX]

I think you may have missed the word "force" in @ChristineM's post you replied to.

No one can "force" anyone to believe anything. Which is why I ignored that term. There is no "forcing" going on, here.

 

[ChristineM]

Weird. I was just responding to .what he made up about me

There is a lot of it about, second time today for me

 

[PureX]

Kindly note what HonestJoe was asking. I gave a honest response to it. If someone critiques my religious beliefs, then I will respond. If people have different views, I will have no problem with that. I encounter that even in my own religion.

I appreciate and accept that clarification.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Does it matter to you that some people believe and live their life differently to what you do?

It does, when those lifestyles or beliefs are a hinderance - or worse: a danger - to free society or the stability thereof.

When a believer as you to stop the harrasment, why do you keep pushing? Don't you have respect for other people?

Don't confuse respecting people as people with respecting beliefs.
Also, respect has to be earned - it is not granted by default.

 

[Nimos]

This thread is toward the people in RF who every day create OP critiquing any religious teaching they don't believe in or follow themselves.

Question:
What do you gain from it?

Are your OP made so you can learn from believers, or just to mock people you disagree with?

Does it matter to you that some people believe and live their life differently to what you do?

When a believer as you to stop the harrasment, why do you keep pushing? Don't you have respect for other people?

Being a bit unspecific so not sure if it applies to me or not. So can only say how I tend to do it, might not always be the case, but at least im trying dammit!!

I try to not ridicule religious beliefs, but I will question any claim made, if I see a need for it, which is because I do think all beliefs regardless of what they are should be up for questioning, they are not sacred. So in certain cases I could understand if some people think im having a go at them. But I do think I tend to stick to the topic and avoid personal attacks.

On the other side, I do think some religious people are not very good at distinguishing between someone having a go at a religious teaching compared to a personal attack. So a critique of a religious claim is taken as a personal attack rather than on the claim.

Does it matter to you that some people believe and live their life differently to what you do?
Well it does, im a white guy, I don't experience any forms of racism, those that are racists and enjoys going after people of a different skin color are not causing any issues for me personally. So obviously I could just not care, because their beliefs doesn't affect me in any way. And to me, that is not how the world works, because I can fully understand the issue that these people experience, and despite it not having any influence on me, I do support them in this and will help fight against it, whenever possible.

As I said above, NO beliefs are sacred to me and never should they be. And that is often what this end up with, that some religious people feel like their beliefs should have some sort of immunity. So is it wrong to care about racism if you don't experience or is affected by it yourself? I guess most people would answer "No, it is not wrong". Likewise, is it wrong to care about religious beliefs, that could potentially cause harm to others, even if they don't affect yourself? Again, the answer ought to be "No, it is not wrong".

 

[ChristineM]

Is someone else proclaiming what they believe to be true, but that you don't believe to be true, an attack on what you believe to be true? How about if they claim that you should believe their truth to be the truth?

When someone tells me that i (and my children) will rot in hell unless i believe what they believe, would you say that is the truth?

I have always considered truth to being in accord with fact or reality. Other people have a different definition, that which i believe to be true, no evidence required.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Guys answer the question, this is nit a free place for you to critique belivers, but to give your answer to why, and how it get you feeling when pooping on belivers just because you dont believe in their faith

You are not being honest here. You are asking for people's motivations, but the bolded part reveals that really you feel like you already have the answers.

And you're not giving the impression that you are actually interested in the actual answers.

 

[Altfish]

You did, actually. That's what the "any" implies.


No, you didn't say that.

... but I understand now that you don't actually criticize any religious teaching you disagree with.

What a weird, useless waste of time this tangent has been.

Glad to oblige

 

[Altfish]

So you're using your indoctrination as your excuse to punish all religious people?

No

 

[ppp]

The OP is not about me. Keep to the topic and just answer the question without attacking OP starter or others who take part in the thread.

The underlying false assumptions of the OP are part of the topic. Loaded questions get called out. You can take that as a personal attack if you like, or you can take the opportunity to unload your question.

 

[PureX]

When someone tells me that i (and my children) will rot in hell unless i believe what they believe, would you say that is the truth?

I am not the keeper of all truth. So I don't know. But if you disagree with them, does that make them your 'enemy'?

I have always considered truth to being in accord with fact or reality. Other people have a different definition, that which i believe to be true, no evidence required.

People believe all kinds of things to be true. And many of them will not accord with what you or I believe to be true. So the question is how do we respond to this dilemma, and maybe more importantly, why. Trying to "correct" their error (according to our idea of truth) is not likely to have much of a positive effect. Neither is treating them like our 'enemy' (or they, us). So the OP is asking, I think, what we feel we gain by debating them.

And I think it's a very good question.

I like debate, and criticism, but they have to be done within the context of curiosity and an open mind. And in fact, here of RF, that is very often NOT the context within which it is being attempted. And so I think it's appropriate that we ask ourselves (and each other) why we are engaged in it, really.

 

[PureX]

The underlying false assumptions of the OP are part of the topic. Loaded questions get called out. You can take that as a personal attack if you like, or you can take the opportunity to unload your question.

How do you think it was a "loaded question"? And how does your thinking so override ("defeat") someone else NOT thinking so?