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What do you know about Islam?

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
But isn't it telling that Islamists are fighting and terrorizing people around the globe? in Israel, in the Palestinian territories, civil wars and clashes between forces in Lebanon, civil wars in Yemen, civil wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, wars with Russia, terror attacks in Russia, Spain, England, India, East Asia, the clashes between Pakistani forces and terrorists inside Pakistan, terror attacks against countless of other Muslims througout the Muslim world.
today more than ever, it seems that global Islamism is a threat to political balance, and social security around the world. how long can the citizens of the major powers say 'oh but these are the deluded people, of what is otherwise a religion of peace'.
Today many Europeans feel that the Muslims are yet again at the Gates of Vienna.
I don't believe in the myth of 'religion of peace', Christianity originally preaches wonderful peace making and calls God Love, no less, but is has been instrumental in universal suffering, likewise Islam, no religion is a religion of peace, it is just a religion, it has countless of interpretations, political divisions, and an astounding numbers of social problems to deal with.

I never denied Muslims are in the middle of lots of violent struggles. I'm saying that Islam is not spread today by the sword as it happened in some times in the past.

Also, i don't know why you are wording this as if Muslims made the initiative or something in these struggles. A lot of what you are talking about are strong countries, fighting weak Islamic countries.
 

nameless

The Creator
Yes sure, violence has helped in the past, and yes violence has a strong appeal. My point is, today, not in the past, today Islam's expansion is not through violence. I'm talking about people who independently become Muslims, how are we forcing them to do that?

any idea about happenings in pakistan? after independence pakistans hindu population dropped from 15% to 2%, kidnapping, raping, threatening etc. Pakistan is a hell for non-muslims.
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What about these converts?
Scientologists also claim to be the the fastest growing religion, Wiccans claim to be the fastest growing religion in the US, surveys say that neo-paganism is the fastest growing religion.
Please don't make it sound as if there is a mass conversion into Islam which is significally changing the demographics of our societies. conversions and deconversions are a daily phenomena. this forum is a testament of that, you have Americans who embraced Buddhism, Australians who have embraced Hinduism, Western people who embrace neo-paganism, and yes caucasians who convert to Islam.

I'm not trying to make it seem that Islam is special, that is not at all my point now. All i'm saying, like i said in my last post, is that Islam today doesn't spread the message in a violent way, it is done through peaceful measures, and lots of people choose to adhere it independently.
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
Also, i don't know why you are wording this as if Muslims made the initiative or something in these struggles. A lot of what you are talking about are strong countries, fighting weak Islamic countries.
I'm not talking about Islamic countries, im talking about global terrorism, and these weak people as you call them, have no reservations about killing their own people, Europeans, Asians, or Americans.
these people have been oppressing people for a very long time, not many people today need a history lesson of the way the Taliban has mastered misogynism for example.
 

fatima_bintu_islam

Active Member
I'm not talking about Islamic countries, im talking about global terrorism, and these weak people as you call them, have no reservations about killing their own people, Europeans, Asians, or Americans.
these people have been oppressing people for a very long time, not many people today need a history lesson of the way the Taliban has mastered misogynism for example.


Look whos talking about terrorism hihihi , an israelite soldier :D Thats the best joke ever. ( Im serious) lol
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
any idea about happenings in pakistan? after independence pakistans hindu population dropped from 15% to 2%, kidnapping, raping, threatening etc. Pakistan is a hell for non-muslims.

Just like Iraq is a hell for Muslims today. Just like many other places where violence and terrorism are displayed.
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
In 2001 the Indonesian army evacuated hundreds of Christian refugees from the remote Kesui and Teor islands in Maluku (province) after the refugees stated that they had been forced to convert to Islam. According to reports, some of the men had been circumcised against their will, and a paramilitary group involved in the incident confirmed that circumcisions had taken place while denying any element of coercion. [53]
In 2004 Coptic Christians in Egypt occupied the main Coptic cathedral in Cairo for several days, angry at the disappearance of a priest's wife in a village in the Nile delta, who have been forced to convert to Islam. The BBC reported that allegations of forced conversions of Copts to Islam surface every year in Egypt.[54]
In August 2006 two journalists, Steve Centanni and Olaf Wiig, were kidnapped by Holy Jihad Brigades in Gaza City, and were apparently forced to convert to Islam at gunpoint. The Palestinian news service Ramattan and Fox News reported that they were released unharmed shortly after the release of a new video.[55] In the video, both journalists, wearing beige robes, read statements saying that they had converted to Islam, with Centanni stating "Islam is not just meant for some people; it is the true religion for all people at all times."[55] After being freed, Steve Centanni stated, "We were forced to convert to Islam at gunpoint, and don't get me wrong here, I have the highest respect for Islam, and learned a lot of very good things about it, but it was something we felt we had to do, because they had the guns, and we didn't know what the hell was going on."[55]
It was reported in February 2007 that Hindu and Sikh organisations in the UK believe that young women of these faiths are being coerced by young men they meet at university into converting to Islam. The chief of the Metropolitan Police, Sir Ian Blair attended a conference where the allegations were made. A spokeswoman for the police said: "We are aware of it as an issue that concerns the Hindu community but are not aware, without further research, of any specific incidents reported to police. We would encourage anyone who has been targeted in this way to seek help."[56]
In May 2007, members of the Christian community of Charsadda in the North West Frontier Province of Pakistan, close to the border of Afghanistan, reported that they had received letters threatening bombings if they did not convert to Islam, and that the police were not taking their fears seriously.[57]
There have been numerous reports of Islamic attempts to forcibly convert religious minorities in Iraq. In Baghdad, Christians have been told to convert to Islam, pay the jizya or die.[58][59][60] In March 2007 the BBC reported that people in the Mandaean religious minority in Iraq alleged that they were being targeted by Islamist insurgents, who offered them the choice of conversion or death.[61]
On October 2009 it was reported that Muslim groups in the Indian state of Kerala have been engaging in a "Love Jihad", whereby Muslim men were trained to seduce college-going Hindu and Christian girls to marry them and forcibly convert to Islam.[62] Both Hindu and Catholic Christian groups in the state expressed alarm at this trend and have been working together to protest this trend. The High Court in the state has resolved to probe the matter. The primary Islamic group currently being held responsible for this is the Islamic extremist front Popular Front of India, a conglomeration of radical Islamist groups disguised as civil rights groups that are dedicated to implementing Islamic Sharia law in Hindu majority India.[63] The Catholic Church in Kerala has joined up with Hindu groups in order to combat this trend.[64] Such cases of "Love Jihad" have reportedly started to occur in the neighboring state of Karnataka as well.[64]
In Pakistan, Hindus have been forcefully converted to Islam ever since its foundation. Around 20 to 25 Hindu girls are abducted every month and converted to Islam forcibly.[65] Sikhs in Pakistan, concentrated in the Lahore area, also have been constantly under a threat to convert to Islam.[66] As jizya was legalized by the Government of Pakistan in 2009, the Taliban have been kidnapping minority communities to claim this tax[67], while officials use a significantly pro-Islam constitution to encourage conversions

Forced conversion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

fatima_bintu_islam

Active Member
In case you havent noticed, Fatima, people are voicing what they know about Islam. or is it not what you want to hear?

No no problem at all in hearing this. Actually, they are not voicing what they know, ther are arguing about what they know, and I wished I could know more than this about what people know about Islam , before we start arguing about specfic stuffs in it.

Specific stuffs can be delayed after I get what I wanted to know, or be moved to another thread, isnt it a reasonable request??
 

fatima_bintu_islam

Active Member
OMG, and he is quoting Wikipedia ! I have no problem with the quote in itself ( I did not even read it , just the first sentence)

But please, historical facts from wiki? Are you serious?
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
wars? ok, pls let me know few of those...

Islamic wars are not by default wrong, you are aware of that right? Any war that was about fighting enemies without the horrible things like converting others by force and so on. Also, this is off topic, i already said discussing what some Muslims do or did doesn't resemble anything for me. There are people more informed about this that you can enjoy the endless debate with about wether old Muslims were bad guys or not. I don't know very well about history in general.
 

kejos

Active Member
I don't know what you're talking about.
Why are Muslims not out there obeying The Prophet? Make them choose between conversion to Islam, payment of the poll tax, or death.

I guess i'm stupid.
Not even slightly.

Who is converting who by violence?
Muslims terrorise any who get in their way.

That's your personal take on it.
Falsehood. Answer to the facts, or be seen to capitulate.

Yeah, sure may be that happens, but you can't prove that all intelligent people who are muslims are fitting to what you're talking about.
You don't know that they do not.

Not at all, just trying not to enforce my opinion on you.
Tut tut. Attempting ridicule.

Definitely the white flag.
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
OMG, and he is quoting Wikipedia ! I have no problem with the quote in itself ( I did not even read it , just the first sentence)

But please, historical facts from wiki? Are you serious?
Fact one, these are not 'historical', these are events that take place in the 21st century. fact two, wiki is not reliable for you? sure, I dig that, here is what BBC says on the same subject:

International rights groups say they are also used to discriminate in areas such as employment.
There are other cases involving claims of violent, forced conversion to Islam.
Nahla, whose identity we have protected, says she left home to escape her abusive family.
She moved in with her sister, who had converted to Islam in order to marry a Muslim man.
Within a month of moving in, Nahla's brother-in-law announced he had found her a Muslim husband and pressured her to convert.
After she refused to submit, her brother-in-law reported her to the police and they took her to a police station where she was beaten, she alleges.
Nahla eventually ran away from her Muslim husband, and has now remarried a Christian.
Her children are Christian, she is a regular at her Coptic church, yet she is refused a identity card that says she is Christian by the state.
"You need a card for everything in Egypt, even to be buried," she says.

Source: BBC News - Egypt's Coptic Christians battle for ID cards
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
I would like to know about each person what they know about Islam?

It's pretty much like most other religions, in that it expresses a monopoly on the truth; it has a text that promotes this view; it has various sects and divisions that have various interpretations of what the truth is; it is utilized for socio-political leverage and power; and it has the same amount of rational logic and objective evidence supporting the existence of its particular god as other religions: none.

Everything else is details.
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I'm not talking about Islamic countries, im talking about global terrorism, and these weak people as you call them, have no reservations about killing their own people, Europeans, Asians, or Americans.
these people have been oppressing people for a very long time, not many people today need a history lesson of the way the Taliban has mastered misogynism for example.

Well, i already acknowledged that there are Muslim terrorists. If you mean that Islam supposedly contains the highest ratio of radicals, that can also be obvious why. For example, the very fact that there is so much wars in which Muslim countries are involved in, encourages that behavior, due to some governments lack of ability to defend their countries. Also, i believe the bad condition in which the middle east in, has a huge effect on this.
 
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