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What do You Think Science is...

<PPE testing here>:rolleyes:

I note you ignored all the other links, quelle surprise.
You’re unscientific links? You post a mask study from Beijing and they say they don’t even know what kind of mask used. Wear a mask and keep getting boosted, doesn’t bother me. It’s up to each individual for themselves as well as for their children. Tyrants want to place mandates on everyone.

This isn’t scientific, compelling or conclusive just informative
Overall, evidence from RCTs and observational studies is informative, but not compelling on its own. Both the Australian influenza RCT and the Beijing households observational trial found around 80% efficacy among compliant subjects, and the one SARS household study of sufficient power found 70% efficacy for protecting the wearer. However, we do not know whether the results from influenza or SARS will correspond to results for SARS-CoV-2, and the single observational study of SARS-CoV-2 might not be replicated in other communities. None of the studies looked specifically at cloth masks.

Just a “wordy” article :)
 
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C3D83E07-3E5B-469C-8E81-2110AC4FF126.jpeg
No more signs on the doors, most everyone done with the masks and living in fear.
81FF1B77-A5E2-4AD0-AEBA-07F43204E59B.jpeg
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Science draws from conclusions that are based on evidence, when having evidence, faith is not required, so compare that to faith based beliefs that are drawn from whatever appeals to our feelings and prejudices.
This made me think about an aside during a lecture made by a well-known physicist and educator (not only as a college professor but as the author of textbooks, including a standard textbooks used to teach quantum mechanics to beginning graduate students and sometimes advanced undergraduates). For context: This quote and the lecture whence it comes are part of a two-semester course on modern physics designed for non-physics majors (and is thus able to cover more than is generally possible in courses for physics majors).
The quote comes from a lecture on special relativity, and concerns what drove Einstein to his postulates (a fuller quote taken from the transcript is included below) :
Transcript (the link for which may be found here) :
“[Einstein] believed that natural phenomena will just follow either the principle of relativity or they won’t. And that is something you should think about. Because that was the only reason he had. He just said, ‘I don’t believe chapters 1 through 10 in our book obey relativity and chapters 20 through 30 where we do E&M doesn’t.’ These are all natural phenomena that will obey the same principle…
Now, that’s really based on a lot of faith and even though scientists generally are opposed to intelligent design, we all have some bias about the way natural laws were designed; there’s no question about it. You can talk to any practicing physicist. We have a faith that underlying laws of nature will have a certain elegance and a certain beauty and a certain uniformity across all of natural phenomena. That is a faith that we have. It’s not a religious issue; otherwise, I wouldn’t bring it up in the classroom, but it is certainly the credo of all scientists, at least all physicists, that there is some elegance in the laws of nature and we put a lot of money on that faith, that the laws of nature will do this and will not do this. Who are we to say that?” (emphases added)

It seems of particular relevance that Shankar states, on record (in a classroom) something that is well known to all physicists: faith, beliefs, aesthetics, and a great deal of other subjective judgments play a much larger role than the public seems to generally be aware of. But, as Shankar also notes, this doesn't make it a religious issue.
More generally, and across sciences, evidence is never enough in practice or principle, because evidence is always interpreted within a theoretical framework that is also used to formulate hypotheses as well as the observations and experiments used to test these. And different scientists have differing degrees of "faith" in particular theories or theoretical frameworks that bias us in different ways and make sometimes more inclined to accept certain observations or experimental results as evidence for a particular conclusion or less so (or not at all).
 

lukethethird

unknown member
This made me think about an aside during a lecture made by a well-known physicist and educator (not only as a college professor but as the author of textbooks, including a standard textbooks used to teach quantum mechanics to beginning graduate students and sometimes advanced undergraduates). For context: This quote and the lecture whence it comes are part of a two-semester course on modern physics designed for non-physics majors (and is thus able to cover more than is generally possible in courses for physics majors).
The quote comes from a lecture on special relativity, and concerns what drove Einstein to his postulates (a fuller quote taken from the transcript is included below) :
Transcript (the link for which may be found here) :
“[Einstein] believed that natural phenomena will just follow either the principle of relativity or they won’t. And that is something you should think about. Because that was the only reason he had. He just said, ‘I don’t believe chapters 1 through 10 in our book obey relativity and chapters 20 through 30 where we do E&M doesn’t.’ These are all natural phenomena that will obey the same principle…
Now, that’s really based on a lot of faith and even though scientists generally are opposed to intelligent design, we all have some bias about the way natural laws were designed; there’s no question about it. You can talk to any practicing physicist. We have a faith that underlying laws of nature will have a certain elegance and a certain beauty and a certain uniformity across all of natural phenomena. That is a faith that we have. It’s not a religious issue; otherwise, I wouldn’t bring it up in the classroom, but it is certainly the credo of all scientists, at least all physicists, that there is some elegance in the laws of nature and we put a lot of money on that faith, that the laws of nature will do this and will not do this. Who are we to say that?” (emphases added)

It seems of particular relevance that Shankar states, on record (in a classroom) something that is well known to all physicists: faith, beliefs, aesthetics, and a great deal of other subjective judgments play a much larger role than the public seems to generally be aware of. But, as Shankar also notes, this doesn't make it a religious issue.
More generally, and across sciences, evidence is never enough in practice or principle, because evidence is always interpreted within a theoretical framework that is also used to formulate hypotheses as well as the observations and experiments used to test these. And different scientists have differing degrees of "faith" in particular theories or theoretical frameworks that bias us in different ways and make sometimes more inclined to accept certain observations or experimental results as evidence for a particular conclusion or less so (or not at all).
Yes, good point, though I think this illustrates a difference in definitions of faith, and something to think about.
 
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This made me think about an aside during a lecture made by a well-known physicist and educator (not only as a college professor but as the author of textbooks, including a standard textbooks used to teach quantum mechanics to beginning graduate students and sometimes advanced undergraduates). For context: This quote and the lecture whence it comes are part of a two-semester course on modern physics designed for non-physics majors (and is thus able to cover more than is generally possible in courses for physics majors).
The quote comes from a lecture on special relativity, and concerns what drove Einstein to his postulates (a fuller quote taken from the transcript is included below) :
Transcript (the link for which may be found here) :
“[Einstein] believed that natural phenomena will just follow either the principle of relativity or they won’t. And that is something you should think about. Because that was the only reason he had. He just said, ‘I don’t believe chapters 1 through 10 in our book obey relativity and chapters 20 through 30 where we do E&M doesn’t.’ These are all natural phenomena that will obey the same principle…
Now, that’s really based on a lot of faith and even though scientists generally are opposed to intelligent design, we all have some bias about the way natural laws were designed; there’s no question about it. You can talk to any practicing physicist. We have a faith that underlying laws of nature will have a certain elegance and a certain beauty and a certain uniformity across all of natural phenomena. That is a faith that we have. It’s not a religious issue; otherwise, I wouldn’t bring it up in the classroom, but it is certainly the credo of all scientists, at least all physicists, that there is some elegance in the laws of nature and we put a lot of money on that faith, that the laws of nature will do this and will not do this. Who are we to say that?” (emphases added)

It seems of particular relevance that Shankar states, on record (in a classroom) something that is well known to all physicists: faith, beliefs, aesthetics, and a great deal of other subjective judgments play a much larger role than the public seems to generally be aware of. But, as Shankar also notes, this doesn't make it a religious issue.
More generally, and across sciences, evidence is never enough in practice or principle, because evidence is always interpreted within a theoretical framework that is also used to formulate hypotheses as well as the observations and experiments used to test these. And different scientists have differing degrees of "faith" in particular theories or theoretical frameworks that bias us in different ways and make sometimes more inclined to accept certain observations or experimental results as evidence for a particular conclusion or less so (or not at all).

So my faith/trust goes a step further than putting my faith/trust in what can be seen by my natural senses. My trust/faith is based on the God who is at the moment not seen and has created the physical laws that people place their trust in. Science has no way to measure or test God and spiritual matters and explains them away.

“Now faith is the reality of what is hoped for, the proof of what is not seen. For by this our ancestors were approved. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was made from things that are not visible.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:1-3‬ ‭CSB‬‬
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
You’re unscientific links? You post a mask study from Beijing and they say they don’t even know what kind of mask used. Wear a mask and keep getting boosted, doesn’t bother me. It’s up to each individual for themselves as well as for their children. Tyrants want to place mandates on everyone.

This isn’t scientific, compelling or conclusive just informative
Overall, evidence from RCTs and observational studies is informative, but not compelling on its own. Both the Australian influenza RCT and the Beijing households observational trial found around 80% efficacy among compliant subjects, and the one SARS household study of sufficient power found 70% efficacy for protecting the wearer. However, we do not know whether the results from influenza or SARS will correspond to results for SARS-CoV-2, and the single observational study of SARS-CoV-2 might not be replicated in other communities. None of the studies looked specifically at cloth masks.

Just a “wordy” article :)

Lots of words, but none of them addressing the links, the one link you reference did offer evidence of the type of masks, and I linked the observations from that article which you clearly did not read, and you ignored them again. Then again you deny many scientific facts, so who is surprised.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
View attachment 59921 More freedom and reality, everyone can make their own choices.

Choices that may affect others, but I think we all see that you don't care. What harm does wearing a mask do as a precaution, and given a child in school understands how viruses are spread, and thus the efficacy of a mask in slowing that spread, anyone offering shrill histrionics in opposition, is either too dumb to understand it, or too selfish to care.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
Provide peer reviewed papers that have been published in mainstream journals.
Creatards just create their own fake peer review stuff now, like the creation institute. They even have their own "museum", it's hilarious really, but you have to feel sorry for the kids.
 
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