What do you want to know about LDS beliefs?

[Squirt]

If Moroni devoutly practiced the Mormon Gospel, why is he an angel now rather than a God? (Doc. & Cov. 132:17,37) Explain, if you will.

There is no timetable attached to God's promises for us.

 

[barnabus]

There is nowhere in the Book of Mormon where we are taught that the skin color of the American Indians will change if they convert. I'm afraid there is nothing to explain.

Apparently there is something to explain.

The book of Mormon says in 2 Nephi 5:21, "And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, and they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

3 Nephi 2:15 says, "And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites." This is obviously a reference to skin color.

Brigham Young, the second prophet of the Mormon church said, in 1859, "You may inquire of the intelligent of the world whether they can tell why the aborigines of this country are dark, loathsome, ignorant, and sunken into the depths of degradation ...When the Lord has a people, he makes covenants with them and gives unto them promises: then, if they transgress his law, change his ordinances, and break his covenants he has made with them, he will put a mark upon them, as in the case of the Lamanites and other portions of the house of Israel; but by-and-by they will become a white and delightsome people" (Journal of Discourses 7:336).
Brigham Young also said that those who fall away from Mormonism would, "become gray-haired, wrinkled, and black, just like the Devil" (Journal of Discourse 5:332).
I do not know if Squirt is aware of the references in the Book of Mormon and perhaps he is also unaware of the quotes from Brigham Young, the second Prophet of his church. Explain?
​

 

[barnabus]

Easily. The Book of Mormon teaches the same gospel as was preached in ancient times, not a different one.

If this is so, why is the Book of Mormon so necessary?

 

[Bishka]

Apparently there is something to explain.

The book of Mormon says in 2 Nephi 5:21, "And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, and they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

3 Nephi 2:15 says, "And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites." This is obviously a reference to skin color.

Brigham Young, the second prophet of the Mormon church said, in 1859, "You may inquire of the intelligent of the world whether they can tell why the aborigines of this country are dark, loathsome, ignorant, and sunken into the depths of degradation ...When the Lord has a people, he makes covenants with them and gives unto them promises: then, if they transgress his law, change his ordinances, and break his covenants he has made with them, he will put a mark upon them, as in the case of the Lamanites and other portions of the house of Israel; but by-and-by they will become a white and delightsome people" (Journal of Discourses 7:336).
Brigham Young also said that those who fall away from Mormonism would, "become gray-haired, wrinkled, and black, just like the Devil" (Journal of Discourse 5:332).
I do not know if Squirt is aware of the references in the Book of Mormon and perhaps he is also unaware of the quotes from Brigham Young, the second Prophet of his church. Explain?

​

1 - Squirt is a female
2 - Squirt knows our Church better then you do, so please do not assume you know anything. You aren't a member and you probably haven't seriously stuidied the doctrine - obvious by you questions that are being asked.

 

[Squirt]

Apparently there is something to explain.

The book of Mormon says in 2 Nephi 5:21, "And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, and they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

3 Nephi 2:15 says, "And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites." This is obviously a reference to skin color.

Brigham Young, the second prophet of the Mormon church said, in 1859, "You may inquire of the intelligent of the world whether they can tell why the aborigines of this country are dark, loathsome, ignorant, and sunken into the depths of degradation ...When the Lord has a people, he makes covenants with them and gives unto them promises: then, if they transgress his law, change his ordinances, and break his covenants he has made with them, he will put a mark upon them, as in the case of the Lamanites and other portions of the house of Israel; but by-and-by they will become a white and delightsome people" (Journal of Discourses 7:336).
Brigham Young also said that those who fall away from Mormonism would, "become gray-haired, wrinkled, and black, just like the Devil" (Journal of Discourse 5:332).
I do not know if Squirt is aware of the references in the Book of Mormon and perhaps he is also unaware of the quotes from Brigham Young, the second Prophet of his church. Explain?

​

I'm answering your questions in order, Barnabus, so I'll get to this a bit later on. But, just for your information, I am female, not male. And my knowledge of LDS doctrine is actually far superior to yours, I can assure you.

 

[Bishka]

If this is so, why is the Book of Mormon so necessary?

Because of much of it was lost.

 

[Squirt]

I don't know if this has been asked yet, but what happens when there are differences in events between book of mormon and the TNK. Which is given more validity??

ANd is mormonism more of a personal thing or group led?

Now I'm feeling really stupid... What's the TNK?

 

[Popeyesays]

If this is so, why is the Book of Mormon so necessary?

I'll leave that to those who care to debate. I've already made up my mind and while I do not agree with the LDS assumptions and doctrines, I recognize that they are people trying to do the best they can for their community, their selves, their families and their relationship with God.

By the way, following your line of reasoning, we have the Gospel of Matthew, right - why do we need the Gospels of Mark, Luke and John? Because they give different perspectives of the same events.

Regards,
Scott

 

[barnabus]

Only one of the sources you listed are official LDS doctrine. The other comments may be true, but they have not been cannonized as scripture. And it has nothing to do with God's beginning, only location. Kolob isn't really an emphasis in LDS doctrine, but if you'd like to learn more about it, this Wikipedia article is pretty good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolob. If you read that you'll know more than 99.99999% of the members of the LDS church do about the subject.

We have four cannonized books of scripture: Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price.

It is my experience that there are many Mormon doctrines taught that are not explicitly stated in the four standard works (The Bible, The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price). My critics know this. Yet, they want me to comply with their standards of documentation and if I do not, they often complain that I have failed to provide citations from official LDS sources.
For example, it does not state in official Mormon Scripture that there is a goddess wife of God the Father in heaven. Yet the fact that this is taught in non "Official" writings: Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443, is a good example.
My question to Jonny in this regard is, "If it is not official Mormon doctrine, then why do so many Mormons believe it and why do your Mormon authorities teach it?"

 

[Bishka]

It is my experience that there are many Mormon doctrines taught that are not explicitly stated in the four standard works (The Bible, The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price). My critics know this. Yet, they want me to comply with their standards of documentation and if I do not, they often complain that I have failed to provide citations from official LDS sources.
For example, it does not state in official Mormon Scripture that there is a goddess wife of God the Father in heaven. Yet the fact that this is taught in non "Official" writings: Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443, is a good example.
My question to Jonny in this regard is, "If it is not official Mormon doctrine, then why do so many Mormons believe it and why do your Mormon authorities teach it?"

I should ask the same about your church and other religions out there. Seriously give it a break. WE all know you are not seriously interested in the LDS Church or you wouldn't be asking the question you do. If you want to know something about our church STOP critizing it.

 

[barnabus]

I'm answering your questions in order, Barnabus, so I'll get to this a bit later on. But, just for your information, I am female, not male. And my knowledge of LDS doctrine is actually far superior to yours, I can assure you.

What has your gender have to do with this Squirt? I apologize for the assumption, but come on.

 

[Bishka]

What has your gender have to do with this Squirt? I apologize for the assumption, but come on.

You said Squirt was a male. She was correcting you. Seriously, what is wrong with you? Why are you even bringing that up.

 

[barnabus]

I should ask the same about your church and other religions out there. Seriously give it a break. WE all know you are not seriously interested in the LDS Church or you wouldn't be asking the question you do. If you want to know something about our church STOP critizing it.

Is this not a religious debate forum?

 

[Bishka]

Is this not a religious debate forum?

It is, but you seem not to want answers but to debated the validity of our faith, which we have never once done to you. Why do you feel that need?

 

[Squirt]

Why then is it written-

"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345 )

That God the Father had a Father, (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476; Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 19; Milton Hunter, First Council of the Seventy, Gospel through the Ages, p. 104-105.)

That God resides near a star called Kolob, (Pearl of Great Price, pages 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428.)

"Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38)

Explanations, anyone?

Maybe an elementary lesson is what constitutes LDS doctrine is in order. We have four volumes of scripture, known collectively as "the Standard Works." They are the Bible (KJV), the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. Together these four books comprise the LDS canon and are the absolute source of official LDS doctrine. Many LDS leaders have written books and given sermons over the years. There are literally thousands of pages of their works available. However, if a doctrine cannot be found in one of the Standard Works, you may consider it one man's opinion and nothing more. You have quoted from six sources, only one of which is doctrinally binding on the Latter-day Saints.

 

[Bishka]

You must spread some Karma around before giving it to Squirt again.

Darn it.

BTW Baranbas. Listen to what Squirt says, she's been telling you all along, but you aren't listening. IF it isn't in the standard works, it's not doctrine. Many members don't understand this concept.

 

[Squirt]

If this is so, why is the Book of Mormon so necessary?

Why do you accept the four gospel accounts of the Savior's life as found in the New Testament? Why are all four necessary?

 

[Squirt]

It is my experience that there are many Mormon doctrines taught that are not explicitly stated in the four standard works (The Bible, The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price). My critics know this. Yet, they want me to comply with their standards of documentation and if I do not, they often complain that I have failed to provide citations from official LDS sources.

Apparently you don't understand. There are no Mormon doctrines that are not stated in the four Standard Works. Is there some way I can state this more clearly?

For example, it does not state in official Mormon Scripture that there is a goddess wife of God the Father in heaven. Yet the fact that this is taught in non "Official" writings: Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443, is a good example.
My question to Jonny in this regard is, "If it is not official Mormon doctrine, then why do so many Mormons believe it and why do your Mormon authorities teach it?"

Unofficial writings of our prophets and apostles provide us with a great deal of valuable information. There are a very, very few teachings which are accepted by the LDS people as true, even though they have not been officially canonized. These are probably accepted because common sense dictates that they are logically, when viewed in conjunction with doctrines that are official. The belief in a Mother in Heaven is one of these. We believe, as the Bible teaches, that we are literally sons and daughters of God and that He is the Father of our spirits. If this is the case, then it follows that we would also have a Mother in Heaven.

I can't help but wonder why you are so interested in those things that are not official doctrine. Wouldn't it make more sense for you to question us on things that are official doctrine and that we really do teach, week after week, month after month, year after year?

 

[Squirt]

What has your gender have to do with this Squirt? I apologize for the assumption, but come on.

My gender has nothing to do with our discussion, barnabus. I just thought you'd like to know that I'm a woman, not a man. If you'd rather continue to refer to me as "he" and "him," I don't really care.

 

[Squirt]

Is this not a religious debate forum?

Yes, this is a religious debate forum? I didn't recognize your questions as debating anything. It appears you are simply trying to stump us by throwing out questions you think we won't have answers for. Believe me, we've seen them all a million times, and there isn't one of them we will be unable to answer.