What do you want to know about LDS beliefs?

[Quiddity]

Will you please just get wherever you are trying to lead me? Journals of people who were waiting.

Where? What journals? Written by whom?

Victor, why are you Catholic? How do you know that the Pope is ordained of God?

Please stop turning the tables SL.
His lineage can be traced in historical records, reason, the bible, and I finish it off with faith.

 

[SoyLeche]

I'm looking for early church writings before the 1800's that was a clear indication they were waiting for a man to come restore the Church. That would do just fine.

Oh, why didn't you ask for it then?

I'm not much of a scholar of early church writtings, so I'm not a very good source. Maybe someone else can pick this up.

 

[SoyLeche]

Where? What journals? Written by whom?

Off the top of my head, a group of Cambelites in Ohio led by Sidney Rigdon, the large majority of which converted.

Please stop turning the tables SL.
His lineage can be traced in historical records, reason, the bible, and I finish it off with faith.

Do you want to discuss this or not? I have offered my method for finding truth, and have asked for yours. You've got to give a little too for this to work Victor.

 

[Quiddity]

Off the top of my head, a group of Cambelites in Ohio led by Sidney Rigdon, the large majority of which converted.

These people were waiting for such a man? Got anything else. A couple of different sources from different times will do.

Do you want to discuss this or not? I have offered my method for finding truth, and have asked for yours. You've got to give a little too for this to work Victor.

Why do I have to give a little for it to work? I'm trying to understand you guys. Not the other way around. I still don't know what method you use because I asked you "How do you confirm it with God?" I got no answer.

 

[nutshell]

Of course you do, but to clarify I don't think it would make a difference if it was in the 1800's vs. the 1700's or whatever other year you want to pick. Either way you look at it I don't read of people waiting for such a man.

There were a group of people called Seekers who joined the Church. They were seeking Christ's church and believed it was no longer on the earth. I'll try to find the evidence for such a group and get back to you.

So personal revelation is useless to the whole of the Church? I'm sure you have a way of dismissing a bad thought from a personal revelation right?

I'm not sure I understand. Personal revelation is useful to the whole of the Church in that it allows the individual to gain a testimony of the truthfulness of the Church. However, a "person" can not receive revelation regarding how the Church should be run, etc. unless that person has the responsibility to receive such revelation (i.e. prophet).

 

[nutshell]

[/color]

Why do I have to give a little for it to work? I'm trying to understand you guys. Not the other way around. I still don't know what method you use because I asked you "How do you confirm it with God?" I got no answer.

First, you receive information.
Second, thing about it for yourself. Ponder it out in your mind.
Third, pray to God and ask if it is true.
Fouth, if true, the Spirit will tell you and your "knowledge" will increase

 

[SoyLeche]

[/color]
Why do I have to give a little for it to work? I'm trying to understand you guys. Not the other way around. I still don't know what method you use because I asked you "How do you confirm it with God?" I got no answer.

That's because the answer is the same as the one you would give to the question. I don't know how God comunicates with you or anyone that isn't me. To me, he speaks to my heart. Like I already said, it is impossible for me to put it into words.

 

[Quiddity]

There were a group of people called Seekers who joined the Church. They were seeking Christ's church and believed it was no longer on the earth. I'll try to find the evidence for such a group and get back to you.

Alrighty...

I'm not sure I understand. Personal revelation is useful to the whole of the Church in that it allows the individual to gain a testimony of the truthfulness of the Church. However, a "person" can not receive revelation regarding how the Church should be run, etc. unless that person has the responsibility to receive such revelation (i.e. prophet).

What I was getting at is that personal revelation doesn't change doctrine. Only the prophet can do that, correct?

 

[SoyLeche]

Alrighty...


What I was getting at is that personal revelation doesn't change doctrine. Only the prophet can do that, correct?

Actually, only God can do that, but he does it through his Prophets, just like he said he does.

 

[Quiddity]

First, you receive information.
Second, thing about it for yourself. Ponder it out in your mind.
Third, pray to God and ask if it is true.
Fouth, if true, the Spirit will tell you and your "knowledge" will increase

So basically nothing objective.....ok.

 

[Quiddity]

That's because the answer is the same as the one you would give to the question. I don't know how God comunicates with you or anyone that isn't me. To me, he speaks to my heart. Like I already said, it is impossible for me to put it into words.

No it's not. As I am trying to show. I already noted the difference between us.

 

[dan]

God has restricted the priesthood since the beginning of time. The Aaronic priesthood was first made available only to the sons of Aaron, and then only to the lineage of one of his sons. As time went on it was expanded to include anyone from the tribe of Levi. During Old Testament times only 1/12 of the house of Israel could hold the priesthood, and then it was only men. Certain men were killed by God because they were upset that Moses had the priesthood and they didn't.

When Christ came he brought the Melchizedek priesthood and its blessings and responsibilities. The New Testament is not clear on what criteria qualified someone for this priesthood, but it does mark the distinction between the two.

When the Gospel was restored through Joseph Smith there were certain requirements that the Lord set on the priesthood. ONe was that blacks could not hold the priesthood (interestingly enough, Joseph Smith himself ordained black men to the priesthood - there are exceptions to every rule). In 1978 the Lord revealed that it was time to extend the privilege of the priesthood to all worthy men.

If you want to express offense then you'll have to start with getting offended at God and then you'll have to get in line behind all the women who would like the priesthood as well. Then you'll have to get over your self-righteous indignation and develop some faith.

 

[Quiddity]

Actually, only God can do that, but he does it through his Prophets, just like he said he does.

Distinction without a differece. I gotcha...

 

[dan]

why didnt you let blacks become priests until 1973...

i find that failry offensive and sad.

By the way, that last post was directed at this post.

 

[nutshell]

So basically nothing objective.....ok.

Please, Victor, expound on this. I'm not aware of Christ laying out objective tests to know his Gospel, but I do remember him saying something to Peter about knowledge coming through the Spirit of the Father and not through man.

 

[dan]

What I was getting at is that personal revelation doesn't change doctrine. Only the prophet can do that, correct?

Doctrine does not change. Only the administration of the church changes.

 

[Quiddity]

Please, Victor, expound on this. I'm not aware of Christ laying out objective tests to know his Gospel, but I do remember him saying something to Peter about knowledge coming through the Spirit of the Father and not through man.

We live in a world where objectivity (tangible) and subjectivity (spiritual) is what the senses and what faith can pick up on. To me, I see LDS theology working mostly and exclusively in subjectivity as means to show people they are legit and the real deal. This is unique in prophets nutshell. The isrealites had an objective means to test the prophets. They had the leaders of the Church and written and inspired documents. Give me something objective, that's all I ask.

 

[Quiddity]

Doctrine does not change. Only the administration of the church changes.

Noted...

 

[SoyLeche]

We live in a world where objectivity (tangible) and subjectivity (spiritual) is what the senses and what faith can pick up on. To me, I see LDS theology working mostly and exclusively in subjectivity as means to show people they are legit and the real deal. This is unique in prophets nutshell. The isrealites had an objective means to test the prophets. They had the leaders of the Church and written and inspired documents. Give me something objective, that's all I ask.

So, Noah, Abraham and Moses all were judged according to written documents and church leaders?

 

[Quiddity]

So, Noah, Abraham and Moses all were judged according to written documents and church leaders?

Most in history were, the ones that weren't had to make up for it by lighting fireworks and splitting seas in half. Get the picture?
Can't you answer questions without asking me quesitons back?