What does God want from you?

[chinu]

The Goal of mankind is for Peace and to have it made. Is this God's Goal???? Not on your life!!! On the other hand, mankind wanting to have it made and have peace is a force that does help keep things moving forward.

that does help keep things moving forward --- UNTIL ?

 

[muhammad_isa]

"what lifestyle choices does a 6 year old child who contracts leukemia make that caused their leukemia?"​

I refer you to my post #287
We do not live in isolation from others .. our lives are affected by what our ancestors got up to..

 

[muhammad_isa]

So, it's due to original sin? The descendants have to pay for the sins of the ancestors?

Not exactly "original sin" .. but take climate-change for example..
Yes, absolutely .. our children's lives are affected by the choices that we all make now.

 

[muhammad_isa]

We are talking about sufferings of the people of the world and the children. Why does your God overlook that?
Especially when he is supposed to know all and has power to change that..

How long have you been "around" ?
We all have to die .. it is mortal world.
..or do you think that we should all live forever, here in the universe?

Yes, G-d has the power to change the way the world works .. but He does what He wills.
There is much suffering in this life ..but also much enjoyment for many.
The life hereafter is the most important thing .. the sequel.
Will the poor still suffer from malnutrition and madness? No!
Will the relatively rich continue to feed their bank accounts? No!

 

[ChristineM]

I refer you to my post #287
We do not live in isolation from others .. our lives are affected by what our ancestors got up to..

So still not answering the question. Fair enough, it's what i expected.

 

[muhammad_isa]

What's the point of God creating the natural world then when it's so full of abhorrent suffering?

There is no straightforward answer to that..
..but that does not mean that there IS no reason!

Think about it .. you do not ask the question "What's the point of creating the natural world when it's so full of people enjoying themselves?"..
I wonder why..

 

[ChristineM]

There is no straightforward answer to that..
..but that does not mean that there IS no reason!

Think about it .. you do not ask the question "What's the point of creating the natural world when it's so full of people enjoying themselves?"..
I wonder why..

And it was full of trilobites and dinosaurs enjoying themselves. And millions of other species living their life and enjoying themselves. I wonder why you think people are so special?

 

[Aupmanyav]

God does not create diseases and disasters, give pain even to children, or create disabilities among people.
These things are part and parcel of the natural world.
Why can't you understand that?

And if we go by what the 19th Century uneducated Iranian said, his Allah created the natural world.
Why can't you understand that faults of creation will be ascribed to the creator?
Making a bad building will be the fault of people who created the building.

I have to admit suffering is my primary issue with God. I still believe God exists but I can't believe He is loving.

So what do you expect from an insensitive God or a dictator?

 

[Aupmanyav]

How long have you been "around" ?
We all have to die .. it is mortal world.
..or do you think that we should all live forever, here in the universe?

The life hereafter is the most important thing .. the sequel.

80 years +. Sure we all will die. Only true Christians, true Muslims, true Bahais and true Ahmadiyyas will rise again. Those who do not accept the son/messenger/manifestation/mahdi will burn in hell for eternally. Atheists like me will go to hell.
Atheists know that well but do not worry about it, because it is fiction.

There is no soul in us. There is no after-death life. What evidence do you have for it?
2500 years ago, the 'Charvak' philosophers said:
"Bhasmibhutasya dehasya, punaragamanam kutah?"
(Of the body once cremated, where is the second coming?)
You can replace cremation with burial.

 

[Trailblazer]

And if we go by what the 19th Century uneducated Iranian said, his Allah created the natural world.
Why can't you understand that faults of creation will be ascribed to the creator?
Making a bad building will be the fault of people who created the building.

What are the faults of creation? If you mean humans, God created us all 'good' and then some people chose to be bad.

So what do you expect from an insensitive God or a dictator?

I don't 'expect' anything from God. We get what we get, and if we don't like it then we can choose to be atheists.

 

[TLK Valentine]

God does not create diseases and disasters, give pain even to children, or create disabilities among people.
These things are part and parcel of the natural world.
Why can't you understand that?

Because it's doubletalk.

God created the natural world, wrote the rules, has complete foreknowledge of every beneficial and disastrous event no matter how minute, and, according to most major religions, has a long history of interfering with the natural world (through a process commonly known as "performing a miracle") for personal benefit.

If, as Spider-Man famously said, "With great power must come great responsibility," then with absolute power must come absolute responsibility.

A god who hides from his responsibility is a "god" unworthy of respect, let alone worship.

 

[Trailblazer]

Because it's doubletalk.

God created the natural world, wrote the rules, has complete foreknowledge of every beneficial and disastrous event no matter how minute,

So what if God had foreknowledge? Foreknowledge does not cause anything to happen. There is no logical connection whatsoever.

“Every act ye meditate is as clear to Him as is that act when already accomplished. There is none other God besides Him. His is all creation and its empire. All stands revealed before Him; all is recorded in His holy and hidden Tablets. This fore-knowledge of God, however, should not be regarded as having caused the actions of men, just as your own previous knowledge that a certain event is to occur, or your desire that it should happen, is not and can never be the reason for its occurrence.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 150​

and, according to most major religions, has a long history of interfering with the natural world (through a process commonly known as "performing a miracle") for personal benefit.

Even if God performed miracles, which we cannot know, how would that have been for personal benefit.

If, as Spider-Man famously said, "With great power must come great responsibility," then with absolute power must come absolute responsibility.

A god who hides from his responsibility is a "god" unworthy of respect, let alone worship.

Great power does not imply responsibility. That is so illogical I can barely type this!
Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo illogical.

God is not responsible to anyone. He doeth whatsoever He willeth at His own behest.
That is what being all-powerful means! It doesn't mean God hops to the demands of humans.

 

[TLK Valentine]

So what if God had foreknowledge? Foreknowledge does not cause anything to happen. There is no logical connection whatsoever.

Keep reading...

Even if God performed miracles, which we cannot know, how would that have been for personal benefit.

The performance of miracles is a cornerstone of faith for most western religions -- but perhaps not your own.

Great power does not imply responsibility. That is so illogical I can barely type this!
Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo illogical.

A god who expects praise for actions can't be shocked at blame for actions... or inactions, as the case is here.

God is not responsible to anyone. He doeth whatsoever He willeth at His own behest.

There's the answer to your previous question about personal benefit.

That is what being all-powerful means! It doesn't mean God hops to the demands of humans.

Then as I said, such a god is unworthy of respect, let alone worship.

The only logical choices for belief in such a god are either cowardly bootlicking, or utter contempt.

 

[ppp]

This fore-knowledge of God, however, should not be regarded as having caused the actions of men, just as your own previous knowledge that a certain event is to occur, or your desire that it should happen, is not and can never be the reason for its occurrence.

Let's consider a situation where one organizes a party at their house and invites a friend who has a history of alcohol abuse and violent behavior when intoxicated. Despite being aware of this friend's past actions, one provides them with unlimited access to alcohol during the party. Later in the evening, the friend becomes heavily intoxicated and gets into a physical altercation with another guest, resulting in injuries.

In this scenario, one could bear some responsibility for their friend's actions because they knowingly placed them in a situation where harm was foreseeable. By providing them with alcohol despite knowing their history, they created conditions that increased the likelihood of the negative outcome. It's essential to be mindful of the potential consequences of our actions and decisions, especially when they involve the safety and well-being of others.

 

[Trailblazer]

Let's consider a situation where one organizes a party at their house and invites a friend who has a history of alcohol abuse and violent behavior when intoxicated. Despite being aware of this friend's past actions, one provides them with unlimited access to alcohol during the party. Later in the evening, the friend becomes heavily intoxicated and gets into a physical altercation with another guest, resulting in injuries.

In this scenario, one could bear some responsibility for their friend's actions because they knowingly placed them in a situation where harm was foreseeable. By providing them with alcohol despite knowing their history, they created conditions that increased the likelihood of the negative outcome. It's essential to be mindful of the potential consequences of our actions and decisions, especially when they involve the safety and well-being of others.

I was not talking about responsibility. I was talking about the connection between God's foreknowledge and the actions of men.

This fore-knowledge of God, however, should not be regarded as having caused the actions of men,

 

[Trailblazer]

In this scenario, one could bear some responsibility for their friend's actions because they knowingly placed them in a situation where harm was foreseeable.

If you want to argue that God bears some responsibility since He placed humans in a situation where harm was foreseeable, then you have to concede that God also bears some responsibility for all the goodness in this world since God placed humans in a situation where goodness was foreseeable.

 

[ppp]

Then you have to concede that God also bears some responsibility for all the goodness in this world since God placed humans in a situation where goodness was foreseeable.

Oh, no. Not that!

What on Earth makes you think that I would have to "concede" that? WHat makes you think that is not already a position that I hold on that hypothetical god?

 

[ppp]

I was not talking about responsibility. I was talking about the connection between God's foreknowledge and the actions of men.

That's largely irrelevant. Even in God did not cause the action, he is still a cause of the result. Just like the party host and his friend with alcohol problems are both causes of the drunken violence. Causes...Effects

 

[CG Didymus]

If this all-knowing, all-powerful God had foreseen that humans would fall into moral degradation, then it appears sinister and sadistic of such a God to create them, knowing they would fail to meet his divine expectations. Why would such a God then destroy them out of regret in a global flood or punish those born afterward and require a blood sacrifice of his son to redeem them for behaving precisely as he foresaw they would before he created them?

Yes, that God, the one in the Bible and NT created everything and almost takes responsibility for everything. He sends plagues and other things to punish people for not doing as he wants. And then promises to reward those that believe in him and do as he says. But atheists don't believe in that God and then there are Baha'is, mostly one Baha'i, that doesn't believe it either.

I've asked before and no doubt I'll ask again, how do you know what your god wants?

Some religious people act as if they "know" because they believe their Scriptures are the Word of God. So, no matter what, their Scriptures are true. But one religion's Scriptures aren't necessarily true for another religion.

Yes i know disease evolved, no god involved. What i am questioning is "god created everything.. oh, except the stuff i don't like" usually by people who do not believe in evolution so they cannot claim disease evolved.

So, here comes the Baha'is. For some or most Bible-believing Christian God created everything. There is no such thing as evolution. But for Baha'is, the Bible creation story isn't literally true, and they do believe in evolution. And this one Baha'is likes to use that as a way to blame the mistakes humans have made as the cause of lots of the bad things in the world... like some diseases. But where did the first harmful bacteria and viruses come from? Maybe God? And then they evolved and got worse? Or, originally, God created only good bacteria and viruses, then, because they had free-will, some turned evil?

Don't be silly, the manufacturer is responsible for the car, hence the warranty, not the driver.

Humans aren't cars. This one Baha'i tries to find ways to make people, not God responsible. The analogy would be more like a manufacturer of self-driving cars. The person gets in one and the car runs over people, side-swipes several cars, then goes over a cliff. That might be a glitch in the workings of the car.

So, as believed by some religious people, God created humans and wired them in such a way that they had the ability to make bad choices. And it's not his fault when they do make bad choices?

Of course God isn't responsible for anything. Because things that don't exist cannot be the cause of things that do.

And this is the most important point, does such a God exist? We know the world is screwed up, and if a person wants to believe in a God, how do they explain it? For many, it's people, Satan or anything but their all-knowing and, for some, an all-loving God. Christians have an explanation. God-believing Hindus have another one. Baha'i have a different one. Of course, to the Baha'i, theirs is the correct one.

Such a god would be the cause of everything.

If such a god exists, then things are exactly like it expected they'd be. And for some reason, they are exactly how it wanted them to be.

For those that believe in a God, and don't want him responsible? Fine, explain away on how you explain your God's responsibility away. And then tell everybody how logical and rational your explanation is. But how rational is it to believe in something you can't see and can't prove? And are only going by what one man and his religion said about that God?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

that does help keep things moving forward --- UNTIL ?

Until the powers in charge are saying, " Peace and Security....." (1st Thess. 5:2-3) before there will be Peace on Earth.
Then, there will be divine involvement into mankind's affairs because ' sword-like words from Jesus' mouth' will rid the Earth of the wicked.
Jesus takes the action with angelic armies as found at Isaiah 11:3-4; Rev. 19:14-15