What does God want from you?

[InChrist]

Kinda solving a problem that was never created in the OT.

Actually it was created in the OT.

 

[Trailblazer]

That’s correct, physical death still happens in this temporal physical world. Jesus conquered death in the way that matters most- eternally. Jesus offers eternal life in the new heaven and earth; no more tears, suffering, or death.

So what is your definition of eternal life?

 

[ppp]

Actually it was created in the OT.

That's impossible. For spiritual death (the destruction of some nonmaterial aspect of the self) to have been a thing in the OT, it would have had to have been a Hebrew concept contemporary to the authorship of the pentateuch. It's not.

 

[InChrist]

That's impossible. For spiritual death (the destruction of some nonmaterial aspect of the self) to have been a thing in the OT, it would have had to have been a Hebrew concept contemporary to the authorship of the pentateuch. It's not.

In Genesis 2:17 God tells Adam that the day he eats of the forbidden fruit he will surely die. Physical death is the separation of the soul from the body. Adam didn’t die immediately, yet the process had begun of deterioration and eventual death in the physical realm. This is a picture of something much more significant; spiritual death which is the separation of the soul from God. I’d say this was a concept the Hebrews understood because it was/is in the Pentateuch, with separation between God and humans shown to have occurred.


And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden.
Genesis 3:8

 

[InChrist]

So what is your definition of eternal life?

Life forever with God in the new heaven and earth, enjoying His love, beauty, joy, goodness, creativity and much more.

 

[CG Didymus]

And Christians have Jesus coming back and destroying all evil people.

Yes, Christians have Jesus coming back. Baha'is don't.

 

[Trailblazer]

Life forever with God in the new heaven and earth, enjoying His love, beauty, joy, goodness, creativity and much more.

That's not far from what I believe. I believe that eternal life refers to a “quality” of life, nearness to God, which according to Jesus comes from believing in Him. We can be near to God in our hearts both on earth and in heaven.

“The immortality of the spirit is mentioned in the Holy Books; it is the fundamental basis of the divine religions. Now punishments and rewards are said to be of two kinds: first, the rewards and punishments of this life; second, those of the other world. But the paradise and hell of existence are found in all the worlds of God, whether in this world or in the spiritual heavenly worlds. Gaining these rewards is the gaining of eternal life. That is why Christ said, “Act in such a way that you may find eternal life, and that you may be born of water and the spirit, so that you may enter into the Kingdom.” 2”​

Some Answered Questions, p. 223​

I believe there will be a new earth, but it will be for those who are living when the new earth is built and for generations of those living after that.
I believe that everyone who dies and has eternal life goes to heaven.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, Christians have Jesus coming back. Baha'is don't.

Yes, Christians 'believe' Jesus is coming back even though Jesus never promised to come back, not even once in the entire New Testament.
Jesus said His work was 'finished' and He was 'no more' in the world, but Christians cannot address those verses.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

no more
phrase of more

1. nothing further.
   "there was no more to be said about it"
2. no further.
   "you must have some soup, but no more wine"
3. exist no longer.
   "the patch of ground was overgrown and the hut was no more"
4. never again.
   "mention his name no more to me"
5. neither.
   "I had no complaints and no more did Tom"

Translate no more to
Definitions from Oxford Languages

Definition of finished

1 : entirely done Are you finished yet? : brought to a completed state reviewing a finished manuscript a finished job To keep a finished drawing from being smeared or soiled, spray it with a fixative. —
Finished Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

 

[ppp]

I’d say this was a concept the Hebrews understood because it was/is in the Pentateuch, with separation between God and humans shown to have occurred.

You interpret it into the Pentateuch. You might say that it was a concept, but simply saying it is not enough if one is interested in distinguishing reality from fiction.

Genesis existed in some form for almost a thousand years before the start of the the Babylonian Exile period. Can you produce a Canaanite literal description of the dualistic concept of the soul, which emphasizes a clear distinction between the material body and an immaterial, immortal soul from before 600 BCE?

Not metaphorical, allegorical, parablist, or surreptitious. Literal.

 

[Bird123]

If you're not careful, 10% of your income.

That's pretty good!!


People are the only ones who want or use money.

So here is my question of the day for you: If you could live in a world where money did not exist. One just ordered and got what one needed. Would you choose to live in the world without money or would you choose the world with money?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[InChrist]

That's not far from what I believe. I believe that eternal life refers to a “quality” of life, nearness to God, which according to Jesus comes from believing in Him. We can be near to God in our hearts both on earth and in heaven.

“The immortality of the spirit is mentioned in the Holy Books; it is the fundamental basis of the divine religions. Now punishments and rewards are said to be of two kinds: first, the rewards and punishments of this life; second, those of the other world. But the paradise and hell of existence are found in all the worlds of God, whether in this world or in the spiritual heavenly worlds. Gaining these rewards is the gaining of eternal life. That is why Christ said, “Act in such a way that you may find eternal life, and that you may be born of water and the spirit, so that you may enter into the Kingdom.” 2”​

Some Answered Questions, p. 223​

I believe there will be a new earth, but it will be for those who are living when the new earth is built and for generations of those living after that.
I believe that everyone who dies and has eternal life goes to heaven.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and perspective. Yes, similar, though a little different. I don’t actually think anyone is capable of gaining eternal life, but believe it’s a gift…
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift ofGod is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

And I believe according to the scriptures, the new heaven and earth happen after the 1000 year reign of Christ upon this present earth and the final Great White Throne Judgement.
Revelation 20 and 21

 

[blü 2]

Yes, I know, but I like the translation I cited since it is closest to what I believe.... I don't believe God creates peace or evil, humans do those things.
God brings good times and bad times... I am still waiting for the good times, and I will probably be waiting till hell freezes over.

It can be very tricky to distinguish knowingly imposing hard times on people from evil.

 

[InChrist]

You interpret it into the Pentateuch. You might say that it was a concept, but simply saying it is not enough if one is interested in distinguishing reality from fiction.

Genesis existed in some form for almost a thousand years before the start of the the Babylonian Exile period. Can you produce a Canaanite literal description of the dualistic concept of the soul, which emphasizes a clear distinction between the material body and an immaterial, immortal soul from before 600 BCE?

Not metaphorical, allegorical, parablist, or surreptitious. Literal.

No, of course I can’t produce any Canaanite literal description of the dualistic concept of the soul which emphasizes the distinction between the material body and an immaterial, immortal soul from before 600 BCE.
I don’t have no need to either because 1) I’m really not interested in debating the subject with you, and 2) I simply believe the scriptures in their entirety; from OT to NT.

 

[Bird123]

You are saying many untrue things (as I outline below, and in other posts). You are making many claims that you don't show are true. Not my problem. If you want to be believed then you have an obligation to make demonstrably true statements. I'm not your follower that will believe anything you say. You need to respect others.

These are claims that should get believers asking you questions. Notice you ask questions, but offer no answers. So why would a believer in some religion agree with you?

Oh boy the irony went right over your head. Do you really lack the self-awareness to recognize your own flaws?

First, gods aren't known to exist, so there is nothing that can't be true (since anyone can claim anything they want about their God and who can say they are factually wrong?), unless you are referring to specific descriptions about a specific version of God that is part of the history of religion. Second, that still doesn't explain what "Real Truth" means. If you insist there is much said about God that isn't true, but fail to explain any of this. You keep saying I don't hear you. You don't say anything in detail. You make vague claims like this and then nothing to explain it. And you think you are on to something profound?

First, prove a God exists. Second, show that it has a system. Third, outline this system in detail, and what it offers anyone.

Can you suceed in providing any of this, factually? Of course you can't. Your hubris won't even help you.

Has religion corrupted your mind so that you can see nothing else?

My want is not about Believing nor getting anyone else to Believe!!!!!! Is this so hard for you to conceive? Think outside of the box. So much exists outside.

How can you say God is not known to exist to one who actually knows God does exist? When one limits one's view from all the possibilities, one will come up lacking the truth. Why? Truth exists beyond those limits and what one wants to be the truth. Truth will not always be an agreeable thing.

Wisdom is acquired along the struggles to acquire knowledge. Must you have all your knowledge served up so you can choose to believe or not? I have put lots of the pieces in my replies. There is much to Discover. God doesn't show up and tell all so you can believe or not. Why would you think Great Intelligence would choose this course of action?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[ppp]

No, of course I can’t produce any Canaanite literal description of the dualistic concept of the soul which emphasizes the distinction between the material body and an immaterial, immortal soul from before 600 BCE.

I don’t have no need to either because 1) I’m really not interested in debating the subject with you, and 2) I simply believe the scriptures in their entirety; from OT to NT.

Incorrect. You don't need to because you are not interested in whether or not your belief is true. You are only interested in holding to that belief.

 

[blü 2]

That's pretty good!!


People are the only ones who want or use money.

So here is my question of the day for you: If you could live in a world where money did not exist. One just ordered and got what one needed. Would you choose to live in the world without money or would you choose the world with money?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

It's the tithing churches who want the 10%. So I suggest you put your question to them.

 

[Trailblazer]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and perspective. Yes, similar, though a little different. I don’t actually think anyone is capable of gaining eternal life, but believe it’s a gift…
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

If we don't have to do anything to gain eternal life, why did Jesus say this?

Matthew 25:45-46 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.​

And I believe according to the scriptures, the new heaven and earth happen after the 1000 year reign of Christ upon this present earth and the final Great White Throne Judgement.
Revelation 20 and 21

According to the scriptures, Jesus said that He finished His work on earth and He was no more in the world

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.​

​

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.​

​

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.​

So how can Jesus reign upon earth?

 

[Trailblazer]

Has religion corrupted your mind so that you can see nothing else?

I don't think so, because @F1fan is an atheist.

 

[Bird123]

Two questions ─

What real entity do you intend to denote when you say "God"?

And what objective test will tell me ─ or any impartial enquirer ─ whether any real happening is the result of "God's actions" or not?

I mean, obviously without such a test it will be impossible to draw any conclusions about God, right?

Have you ever put a puzzle together? Sometimes the proof arrives at the end of the journey. Look at this world around you. Question everything about it. Why are things this way? How does it fit together? Everything must add up perfectly. Does it reflect High Intelligence. Those who seek have limitless questions. Can you really see no evidence of Intelligence?

Physical evidence of a Spiritual Being is not going to happen. On the other hand, Actions or the results of actions can be seen. If one acquires a certain level of understanding, one might just get a visit from God. If this happens, what you have Discovered to date will no longer be mere Beliefs.

Remember, you will be dealing with High Intelligence. Without a certain level of understanding. one would just be confused by the experience. God will not intimidate anyone's choices. If the visit will, the visit won't happen. Life really isn't about Discovering God. On the other hand, choosing to do so can deliver vast knowledge.

Objective test should be everything must add up. If it doesn't you wander from the truth. Put the pieces together. See where it leads. It's a Journey!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

It can be very tricky to distinguish knowingly imposing hard times on people from evil.

I don't think that knowingly imposing hard times on people is evil, it's just cruel.
I think God can be cruel, but not evil. Only humans are evil.