What does God want from you?

[ppp]

Can you explain how or why you think has God chosen sin ?

Creating a world where sin can occur is choosing sin. Creating a would where one knows that specific sins will occur is choosing these sins,

BTW, This is the case whether or not there is free will.

 

[InChrist]

By having created a world without sin.

So force everyone to do good all the time? No choice or freedom?

 

[F1fan]

How do you think God should make this life pleasant when sin is here making it unpleasant and worse than unpleasant?

In your religious scenario it is YOUR God that made sin a thing. YOUR God is accountable for what it created. You seem to think this is as good as it gets, and we should just deal with it. Any decent human could do a better job. Get rid of mosquitos, deadly virus and bacteria. Get rid of birth defects, and cancers. Do we really need earthquakes? Do we need tornados and hurricanes? It's as if your God hates people.

 

[ppp]

So force everyone to do good all the time? No choice or freedom?

I can freely choose between two non-evil options. Right?

I would bet that you never give a direct answer to that question.

 

[F1fan]

By having created a world without sin.

Well Christians interpret Genesis literally even though Jews don't. They insist A&E made a mistake (after being tempted by God, which makes us wonder if they would have followed the rules had they not been tempted) and the Fall occurred, and sin happened. Of course they didn't know since they had no knowledge of good and evil, or accountability for mistakes. But is childhood cancer really a fair punishments for a few people breaking a rule?

 

[F1fan]

So force everyone to do good all the time? No choice or freedom?

No, just make people mentally stable and mature so they don't make foolish errors. As it is there are many born with mental health issues, are immature, low intelligence, suffer from bad parenting, etc. That was YOUR God making these people with such propensity for poor judgment.

 

[InChrist]

In your religious scenario it is YOUR God that made sin a thing. YOUR God is accountable for what it created. You seem to think this is as good as it gets, and we should just deal with it. Any decent human could do a better job. Get rid of mosquitos, deadly virus and bacteria. Get rid of birth defects, and cancers. Do we really need earthquakes? Do we need tornados and hurricanes? It's as if your God hates people.

No, the biblical God did not create sin. Sin is not a created thing. Sin is the absence of God’s holiness, perfection, and goodness. People commit sin by their actions which fall short or are contrary to God’s will, laws, and wisdom…
…for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23

Once humans sinned the curse of sin impacted all creation causing all the negatives you mentioned; mosquitoes, diseases, tornadoes, earthquakes, etc.
…For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. Romans 8:22

So, the need for a new heaven and earth free of sin and it’s damaging impact, an eternal world filled with human beings who have deliberately acknowledged their propensity to sin, need to be saved by God, and have a transformed eternal life.

…And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2

 

[InChrist]

I can freely choose between two non-evil options. Right?

I would bet that you never give a direct answer to that question.

It doesn’t work that way. There aren’t two non-evil choices, at least initially there wasn’t.
God is love. Because love must be given freely, not forced or coerced humans must be given a legitimate choice between trusting and loving God or rejecting God and trusting and loving something other instead.

 

[InChrist]

No, just make people mentally stable and mature so they don't make foolish errors. As it is there are many born with mental health issues, are immature, low intelligence, suffer from bad parenting, etc. That was YOUR God making these people with such propensity for poor judgment.

Their only poor judgment was trusting their own judgement over God’s wisdom and instruction, believing they could be like God. Not any different than all those who reject God now.

 

[ppp]

I won my bet. You didn't answer my question.

It doesn’t work that way. There aren’t two non-evil choices, at least initially there wasn’t.

Adam's initial choices were about the names of animals. Unless you are claiming that choosing "aardvark" is a moral conundrum you are obviously wrong about nonevil choices

I don't t think you have a grasp of what a "choice" is.

 

[InChrist]

I won my bet. You didn't answer my question.

Adam's initial choices were about the names of animals. Unless you are claiming that choosing "aardvark" is a moral conundrum you are obviously wrong about nonevil choices

I don't t think you have a grasp of what a "choice" is.

Yes, Adam named the animals. That did not involve a moral or obedience choice in regard to the one clear command God gave concerned the tree to avoid.

 

[ppp]

Yes, Adam named the animals. That did not involve a moral or obedience choice in regard to the one clear command God gave concerned the tree to avoid.

Oh ffs!. Please go read your own Bible. It is so tiresome to speak to believers who have no idea of the contents of their own beliefs. Adam was told to name the animals. His compliance so was an act of obedience.

 

[InChrist]

Oh ffs!. Please go read your own Bible. It is so tiresome to speak to believers who have no idea of the contents of their own beliefs. Adam was told to name the animals. His compliance so was an act of obedience.

Okay, but his eating the forbidden fruit was a direct act of disobedience.

 

[ppp]

Okay, but his eating the forbidden fruit was a direct act of disobedience.

I can freely choose between two non-evil options. Right?

 

[F1fan]

Their only poor judgment was trusting their own judgement over God’s wisdom and instruction, believing they could be like God. Not any different than all those who reject God now.

This is what religious leaders tell you, and you reveat here. We critical thinkers understand that religious leaders aren't God, and the texts they rely on aren't God, yet they work to fool gullble believers to follow them and believe what THEY say. You are following other humans who claim to speak for an absent God, and you think it's all true.

No, the biblical God did not create sin. Sin is not a created thing. Sin is the absence of God’s holiness, perfection, and goodness. People commit sin by their actions which fall short or are contrary to God’s will, laws, and wisdom…
…for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23

Sorry, but you can't claim that God is the Creator and that what was created isn't his fault. You want God to be authoritative, but not be responsible.

Once humans sinned the curse of sin impacted all creation causing all the negatives you mentioned; mosquitoes, diseases, tornadoes, earthquakes, etc.
…For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. Romans 8:22

And the Creator designed the effect of the Fall, according to the myths (which no rational thinker takes seriously). Your religion wants you to be a stupid and flawed sinner so they can demand authority over you (including your money), and you agree. Critical thinkers don't agree to be part of that scheme and fraud.

So, the need for a new heaven and earth free of sin and it’s damaging impact, an eternal world filled with human beings who have deliberately acknowledged their propensity to sin, need to be saved by God, and have a transformed eternal life.

…And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2

This is how they sell a promise to the gullible. They offer nothing but a fraud to those alive now. Come to church, do what we say, give us 10%, and we will promise you ever lasting life in paradise.

I find it odd that people in the 21st century still believe what evangelical Christianity says, especially the beliefs that opopose science.

Okay, but his eating the forbidden fruit was a direct act of disobedience.

And according to what your religion told you this is why children and young mothers die from cancer. Does that sound like a loving God behind the scenes of life?

 

[Muffled]

Why assume there is a next life? Why assume abortion of a dying fetus is bad? Why get lost in moral fantasies when a person has a professional duty in this life?

Think about that as pregnant women die because they can't get reproductive healthcare due to extremist laws that criminalize the duty of medical professionals. There are lawsuits against states that are putting limits on doctors because the results are serious consequences for vregnant women. You Christian extremists never acknowledge these immoral consequences of your idealistic beliefs.

I believe re-incarnation is Biblical and affirmed by God.

I believe what God has created no man has the right to exterminate. It is one of the ten commandments, Thou shalt not murder.

I believe paid assassins may be professional but they are still murderers.

I believe that is patently false. All medical professionals are supposed to take and keep an osth to protect the lives of their patients and that is why they do not perform abortions.

 

[Muffled]

But my standard is higher than God's standard.

I believe placing sin above morality is standard fare for the unsaved.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I believe re-incarnation is Biblical and affirmed by God.

I've rarely met a Christian who believes in reincarnation or uses Tarot cards. If I remember correctly, you've mentioned using Tarot cards before.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Well Christians interpret Genesis literally even though Jews don't. They insist A&E made a mistake (after being tempted by God, which makes us wonder if they would have followed the rules had they not been tempted) and the Fall occurred, and sin happened. Of course they didn't know since they had no knowledge of good and evil, or accountability for mistakes. But is childhood cancer really a fair punishments for a few people breaking a rule?

I believe the theory of evolution is a more reasonable explanation for the origin of mankind than believing that a god created a man from dirt, breathed air into him and made him alive, created a woman from this man's rib, and that a talking serpent cunningly deceived both the man and the woman into disobeying the god by taking a bite of a forbidden fruit from a magical tree of life, or that the rest of mankind is supposedly descended from these two individuals. In comparison to these stories, believing that human beings evolved from an ancient primate ancestor doesn't seem so unreasonable to me.

 

[Yerda]

I believe the theory of evolution is a more reasonable explanation for the origin of mankind than believing that a god created a man from dirt, breathed air into him and made him alive, created a woman from this man's rib, and that a talking serpent cunningly deceived both the man and the woman into disobeying the god by taking a bite of a forbidden fruit from a magical tree of life, or that the rest of mankind is supposedly descended from these two individuals. In comparison to these stories, believing that human beings evolved from an ancient primate ancestor doesn't seem so unreasonable to me.

The Genesis account is a pretty good story and has a poetic beauty but evolution is a better story and much more beautiful. Common descent tells us that we are all one family and that our history is deeply intertwined with all of life on Earth. That is poetry. Mythic beauty of the highest order, to me.