What does God want from you?

[Trailblazer]

If god is omni, then they could carry on multiple conversations simultaneously; and each conversation in utter privacy.

True, and God might be doing that right now.

 

[ppp]

True, and God might be doing that right now.

Well, not to everyone.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, not to everyone.

That's true. God doesn't have conversations with anyone. A conversation is where a talk in which ideas are exchanged, so it involves a back and forth dialogue. God only listens to us talk but He never talks back. That is what a prayer consists of. Anyone can say a prayer and God will hear it but whether He answers it or not is at His own discretion. God is probably getting so sick of listening to me say The Remover of Difficulties prayer that He doesn't take me seriously anymore.

 

[ppp]

God only listens to us talk but He never talks back.

That is certainly a story.

 

[blü 2]

I am sure that list is very long................................
There will be a long line at God's door in heaven, that's for sure.

Y'just cain't get good staff these days ...

 

[F1fan]

Only that which has been proven true or false as a fact is set in stone.
The opinion most atheists hold, that God does not exist, has not been proven true or false so it is not set in stone.

Yet this isn't what most atheists say. And if a God is defined well enough we can determine it does not exist. There are so many different beliefs about what a God is, or what gods are, that there can't be any way for critical thinkers to make an assessment. This is a problem for claimants who believe in one version of God or another, and can't, or won't, articulate what they mean when they say they believe in a God.

A belief and an opinion are similar.

Belief is the state of mind in which a person thinks something to be the case, with or without there being empirical evidence to prove that something is the case with factual certainty.
Belief - Wikipedia

Opinion: a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge. opinion meaning - Google Search

They are effectively the same thing, a judgment a mind makes about some idea. I would say that opinion as a word has a certain built in subjectivity to the meaning whereas belief is often assumed to be absolute and true by some casual thinkers. Look how many theists will interchange the word belief and knowledge when they refer to their decision that a God exists. And of course we see how some folks will offer their opinion about an ideas as if it is valid because it is an opinion, and then the opinions of those who disagree are waved off because it's "just their opinion". Labels get manipulated while the content/argument of belief/opinion is ignored.

 

[F1fan]

True, and God might be doing that right now.

Or believers are imagining their God is talking to them. How does a believer test this objectively? How do they avoid confirmation bias? Do they even care about confirmation bias?

 

[F1fan]

Y'just cain't get good staff these days ...

That's what happens when you hire right out of the Catholic Church.

"Hey, where's Father Murphey from the Boston Achdiocese, he was supposed to start today?"

"Well, he didn't pass the background check."

 

[CG Didymus]

That is certainly a story.

That's a strange belief that her God doesn't answer back. I know a lot of Christians and people in other religions that say they do hear back from God... including some Baha'is.

 

[CG Didymus]

Or believers are imagining their God is talking to them.

That's what it seems like. It's amazing, no matter what religion, God talks to them in exactly the way their beliefs say he will. Like those that believe their God needs an animal sacrifice. "The Gods have spoken. We must sacrifice a goat today. God said that is what it will take to make him happy."

 

[F1fan]

That's what it seems like. It's amazing, no matter what religion, God talks to them in exactly the way their beliefs say he will. Like those that believe their God needs an animal sacrifice. "The Gods have spoken. We must sacrifice a goat today. God said that is what it will take to make him happy."

And notice no matter what the social or political issue God always agrees with the mere mortal. God is mightily confused, or believers are wrong.

 

[ppp]

That's a strange belief that her God doesn't answer back. I know a lot of Christians and people in other religions that say they do hear back from God... including some Baha'is.

?? I thought that the Baha'i believe that humans would explode into a fine red mist or something if their god spoke directly to them. That is why they claim the existence of messengers.

 

[Trailblazer]

Or believers are imagining their God is talking to them. How does a believer test this objectively? How do they avoid confirmation bias? Do they even care about confirmation bias?

They probably are imagining that and of course there is no way to test it objectively, it is a belief.
No, I don't think most believers care about confirmation bias, they just believe what their religion teaches.
Who wouldn't want to believe that God is talking to them? Only someone who wants to know the truth.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's a strange belief that her God doesn't answer back. I know a lot of Christians and people in other religions that say they do hear back from God... including some Baha'is.

Even Baha'is can be deluded, but the Baha'i Faith does not teach that we ever "hear from God."

 

[Trailblazer]

?? I thought that the Baha'i believe that humans would explode into a fine red mist or something if their god spoke directly to them. That is why they claim the existence of messengers.

No, that is not what we believe. We believe that no ordinary human could ever understand God communicating to them. Only Messengers of God can understand God, not directly, but speaking through the Holy Spirit, because only they have a divine mind....

You must be remembering what I said would happen if God actually 'showed up' on earth, which is based upon this passage:

“Were the Eternal Essence to manifest all that is latent within Him, were He to shine in the plentitude of His glory, none would be found to question His power or repudiate His truth. Nay, all created things would be so dazzled and thunderstruck by the evidences of His light as to be reduced to utter nothingness.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 71-72​

I later realized that passage can also refer to the Manifestation (Messenger) of God. If He were to manifest all that is latent within Him, were He to shine in the plentitude of His glory, none would be found to question His power or repudiate His truth. That is why He comes to earth looking just like an ordinary man, although those who met Him knew He was more than just a man.

"... While the Manifestations of God all shine with the splendours of God's Revelation, they can reveal themselves in only two ways. The first is to appear in their naked glory. Should this happen, all human beings would witness their awesome power, would bow before their majesty and would submit their will entirely to God's Viceregent on earth. People would thus become puppets of God and lose their free will; all would follow the path of truth, not by their own volition but by capitulating to the irresistible power of the Manifestation of God………​

​

The only other way that the Manifestations of God can reveal themselves, which ensures the preservation of human free will, is to conceal their divine power behind the veil of human characteristics. Although they possess majestic, divine qualities, it is, according to Bahá’u’lláh, against the law of God for them to reveal these to the generality of mankind. Through this method people can exercise their free will to accept or to reject the Message of God, to live in accordance with His teachings or to disobey Him."​

​

Adib Taherzadeh, The Child of the Covenant, p. 17​

 

[ppp]

No, that is not what we believe. We believe that no ordinary human could ever understand God communicating to them. Only Messengers of God can understand God, not directly, but speaking through the Holy Spirit, because only they have a divine mind....

You must be remembering what I said would happen if God actually 'showed up' on earth, which is based upon this passage:

“Were the Eternal Essence to manifest all that is latent within Him, were He to shine in the plentitude of His glory, none would be found to question His power or repudiate His truth. Nay, all created things would be so dazzled and thunderstruck by the evidences of His light as to be reduced to utter nothingness.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 71-72​

I later realized that passage can also refer to the Manifestation (Messenger) of God. If He were to manifest all that is latent within Him, were He to shine in the plentitude of His glory, none would be found to question His power or repudiate His truth. That is why He comes to earth looking just like an ordinary man, although those who met Him knew He was

"... While the Manifestations of God all shine with the splendours of God's Revelation, they can reveal themselves in only two ways. The first is to appear in their naked glory. Should this happen, all human beings would witness their awesome power, would bow before their majesty and would submit their will entirely to God's Viceregent on earth. People would thus become puppets of God and lose their free will; all would follow the path of truth, not by their own volition but by capitulating to the irresistible power of the Manifestation of God………​

​

The only other way that the Manifestations of God can reveal themselves, which ensures the preservation of human free will, is to conceal their divine power behind the veil of human characteristics. Although they possess majestic, divine qualities, it is, according to Bahá’u’lláh, against the law of God for them to reveal these to the generality of mankind. Through this method people can exercise their free will to accept or to reject the Message of God, to live in accordance with His teachings or to disobey Him."​

​

Adib Taherzadeh, The Child of the Covenant, p. 17​

"...as to be reduced to utter nothingness." Was what I was remembering. Thanks! More of a disintegration field effect.

 

[InChrist]

This is what religious leaders tell you, and you reveat here. We critical thinkers understand that religious leaders aren't God, and the texts they rely on aren't God, yet they work to fool gullble believers to follow them and believe what THEY say. You are following other humans who claim to speak for an absent God, and you think it's all true.


Sorry, but you can't claim that God is the Creator and that what was created isn't his fault. You want God to be authoritative, but not be responsible.

And the Creator designed the effect of the Fall, according to the myths (which no rational thinker takes seriously). Your religion wants you to be a stupid and flawed sinner so they can demand authority over you (including your money), and you agree. Critical thinkers don't agree to be part of that scheme and fraud.

This is how they sell a promise to the gullible. They offer nothing but a fraud to those alive now. Come to church, do what we say, give us 10%, and we will promise you ever lasting life in paradise.

I find it odd that people in the 21st century still believe what evangelical Christianity says, especially the beliefs that opopose science.


And according to what your religion told you this is why children and young mothers die from cancer. Does that sound like a loving God behind the scenes of life?

I don’t have religious leaders telling me what to think or believe. My understanding concerning sin is between me and Jesus, no church gave me that information. I don’t even consider that I have a religion. I have a living, personal relationship with Jesus Christ the risen Savior and there’s a huge difference between that and any religion, including religious Christianity. No one tells me to give 10% or otherwise, nor knows what I give or don’t give or when or where. You need to stop implying things about someone you don’t even know or espousing your preconceived notions about believers or churches you don’t really know anything about. I don’t deny there are some really bad, scamming so-called preachers and churches. I likely abhor them more than you do. Maybe you’ve had a bad experience in the past, but that doesn’t mean your experience is applicable to all.

Like I said previously. sin is not a created thing like a rock or a fish. God did not create sin. It’s impossible because it would have gone against His very Being, His holy and righteous Nature. According to the scriptures, God created a good beautiful earth initially. God is love, so He created human with freedom to choose. It had to be that way because love cannot be forced. Humans violated God’s love, wisdom and will and marred creation.
From what I see humans are still constantly violating, tampering with and destroying God’s creation because humans think they are smarter than the Creator and like to play God. I’d say most of the autoimmune disorders and proliferation of cancers happening today are due to humans poisoning the environment and food system with toxic chemicals like glyphosate and others.

 

[F1fan]

I don’t have religious leaders telling me what to think or believe.

Yet somehow you ended up believing in exactly the dogma that Christian evangelical leaders claim is truth. Just a coincidence?

Let's note that the claims of evangelical Christianity, like interpreting Genesis literally, assuming the stroies reveal a factual scenario, that the Gospels explain a story that actually happened as stated, etc. None of this is true or consistent with reality. Much of the basis for these beliefs is ONLY interpreting the Bible a certain way, and rejecting certain theories in science, only those theories that challenge a literalist view.

My understanding concerning sin is between me and Jesus, no church gave me that information.

Yet it is an idea that is believed by so many people ONLY because Christian leaders tell their believers it's true. Jews don't believe it. Muslims don't believe it. It's all irrelevant to eastern religions. Yet you ended up believing.

I don’t even consider that I have a religion.

A more common thing these days as religion is more and more seen in a negative light. But you hold religious ideas, so you can't divorce yourself from religion and still admit you hold religious ideas.

I have a living, personal relationship with Jesus Christ the risen Savior and there’s a huge difference between that and any religion, including religious Christianity.

The "close and personal relationship with Jesus, my lord and savior" is an old belief that has been waning in recent years. I don't hear Christians claim this any more. You learned this from religious leaders, yet you say they aren't an influence, and that you aren't religious. You must be the most religious person who isn't religions on the forum.

So, you have a relationshi with Jesus, right? What exactly are you, as a mortal, relating to? What form does Jesus take so he can relate to a mortal, like yourself?

No one tells me to give 10% or otherwise, nor knows what I give or don’t give or when or where.

How can churches survive? I notice the megachurches are doing OK, but the local church on the corner are dying out. I notice the megachurches are using their megachurches for commercial activities, like child care, classes of various types, summer activities for kids, etc. I think they should be taxed since they are now businesses that compete with other businesses.

You need to stop implying things about someone you don’t even know or espousing your preconceived notions about believers or churches you don’t really know anything about. I don’t deny there are some really bad, scamming so-called preachers and churches. I likely abhor them more than you do. Maybe you’ve had a bad experience in the past, but that doesn’t mean your experience is applicable to all.

Could this be why you don't want to admit you are religious, or learned what you believe from religious leaders?

Like I said previously. sin is not a created thing like a rock or a fish. God did not create sin.

According to Genesis sin was a consequence of the disobedicne of Adam and Eve. And they were disobedient because they were not capable of knowing the consequences due to their ignorance and innocence. That means when God created the Serpent, and sent the Serpent to tempt A&E, they didn't stand a chance. Sin was caused by acts of God. And who designed all creation? God.

It’s impossible because it would have gone against His very Being, His holy and righteous Nature. According to the scriptures, God created a good beautiful earth initially.

But he did it, so your belief of what God is must be flawed. Could it be the Serpent has decieved you?

God is love, so He created human with freedom to choose.

But we all sin, we can't escape it. So we have no freedom from that. How is that love by God?

It had to be that way because love cannot be forced.

Who says? Love is causing pain?

Humans violated God’s love, wisdom and will and marred creation.

All as God created.

From what I see humans are still constantly violating, tampering with and destroying God’s creation because humans think they are smarter than the Creator and like to play God.

Many of these people are strict Christians like you. Look at how many evangelicals deny climate change, and don't care because they believe Jesus is coming back soon, so don't worry about damaging the environment.

I’d say most of the autoimmune disorders and proliferation of cancers happening today are due to humans poisoning the environment and food system with toxic chemicals like glyphosate and others.

And liberals want to eliminate deadly chemicals, but the right, which is tied to evangelical Christians, are more concerned about corporate profits than life and liberty. Are you on the side of democrats and liberals who want to clean up the environment?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

The "close and personal relationship with Jesus, my lord and savior" is an old belief that has been waning in recent years.

I was a devout evangelical Christian for thirty years, and I was as devoted a Christian as InChrist appears to be, so I'm familiar with her beliefs. I can't speak for her, but I was undoubtedly indoctrinated to believe what I believed while I was in church. Having a "personal relationship with Jesus" wasn't something that I learned on my own. It was a frequently preached and promoted message in church, Sunday school, and in the Bible study groups I attended. It was also mentioned on occasion in the evangelism training course that I completed in order to lead an evangelism team and street preach. I was taught that "Christianity is a relationship, not a religion," so that is what I believed and what I preached while street preaching. It was a common theme that I used.

 

[ppp]

I was a devout evangelical Christian for thirty years, and I was as devoted a Christian as InChrist appears to be, so I'm familiar with her beliefs. I can't speak for her, but I was undoubtedly indoctrinated to believe what I believed while I was in church. Having a "personal relationship with Jesus" wasn't something that I learned on my own. It was a frequently preached and promoted message in church, Sunday school, and in the Bible study groups I attended. It was also mentioned on occasion in the evangelism training course that I completed in order to lead an evangelism team and street preach. I was taught that "Christianity is a relationship, not a religion," so that is what I believed and what I preached while street preaching. It was a common theme that I used.

Yep. Same here. Except the street preaching. We were encouraged to have personal one on one conversations.