What does God want from you?

[Bird123]

Following a religion out of fear is not the same as fearing God. Nobody should follow a religion out of fear.

I am God fearing since God is one to be feared.
Since you know nothing about God, except what you make up, you don't realize that.

Those that really know God know that God has always been one to be feared.
Fear of God does not mean fearing what God is going to do to you.

When the Bible refers to the “fear of the Lord,” it means having a deep respect, reverence and awe for God's power and authority. Rather than causing someone to be afraid of God, a proper “fear of the Lord” leads one to love Him.

What Does the Fear of the Lord Mean?

One biblical phrase that has troubled many people is the command to fear God. What does “fear of the Lord

lifehopeandtruth.com

Fear of God is mankind's greatest protection.

“The first word which the Abhá Pen hath revealed and inscribed on the first leaf of Paradise is this: “Verily I say: The fear of God hath ever been a sure defence and a safe stronghold for all the peoples of the world. It is the chief cause of the protection of mankind, and the supreme instrument for its preservation. Indeed, there existeth in man a faculty which deterreth him from, and guardeth him against, whatever is unworthy and unseemly, and which is known as his sense of shame. This, however, is confined to but a few; all have not possessed, and do not possess, it. It is incumbent upon the kings and the spiritual leaders of the world to lay fast hold on religion, inasmuch as through it the fear of God is instilled in all else but Him.”
Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, pp. 27-28

Love is not made in Fear. Fear creates a holding back and a limit. Why would you think God wants to limit you?
Fear is generated by the unknown. I do not fear God nor am I God fearing. If I Discover unknown, I venture toward that unknown to Discover it all. Knowing eliminates fear.

Mankind uses fear to manipulate, coerce and intimidate. To hide the evil, they convince you fearing God is good. Fear is the defense of religion and no one else.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[ppp]

The following is not a bald assertion since it is not an assertion.

You spend all of your time pitching fits about labels, instead of addressing substance. You show no evidence of any real belief in a god. But merely in the burlesque of god belief. A mummer's show.

 

[Bird123]

Which religions believe the Scriptures of the other religions weren't written by people? And which religions don't believe the way is or isn't portrayed in the Scriptures of the other religions? Christianity doesn't accept any of the other religions except Judaism. Islam nor the Baha'is accept the Bible as being literally true and reject those Christians that interpret their Scriptures in a way that makes Jesus God. And I argue constantly with Baha'is on how they reject the verses that say Jesus came back to life.

So, all these religions kind of agree with you... when it comes to what you say about the other religions. Of course, their religion is different... to them, it is the truth.

Like we're a painting? If a God did create us, then it's more like we're robots or even androids, made to think and feel, but not given enough brain power to do what's right. Then our creator blames us for "f ing" up?

But let's go with a painter, a house painter. If the painter does a bad job, do we thank and reward the painter? Well, who thinks this creator of the Earth and the animals, and the people has done a good job? Only those that have fallen for the excuses that have supposedly given by the creator. Except those excuses were written by people, and then pushed onto other people as being true.

God is doing an excellent job in creating it all. Those that say God is responsible only for the good do not know God or what God is actually doing with this world.

How can bad things be a good thing? It teaches us what not to do. When one understands all sides, intelligence will pick the best choices. Could this wisdom ever really exist without knowing those bad things?

Worry not. God has placed limits on pain. If the physical pain is too much, one goes into shock, Suddenly, it doesn't hurt so badly. When mental hurt reaches a certain level, one creates mental blocks to isolate from the pain.

On the other hand, pain is important. Pain tells us something is wrong. The greater the pain; the greater the need for action. Without pain, survival could never last. Worry not! God has fixed it all ahead of time. No matter what happens, we are all Eternal.

What is is about what is. It is not about beliefs of what one wants. Stop hiding what is behind beliefs. In the end you will Discover what is will turn out better than an beliefs one could generate. In God's case, what is bad can turn into better results than if the bad never happened. Look and see what the changes are. Doesn't something good come out of bad things?

More knowledge lives beyond the surface. Think Multi-Angular. God is working on multiple views with multiple levels. Think of all the things that are possible with all the combinations of interactions that happen every day. To understand and see, it is going to take a Wide View, Advanced Thinking and a lot of Effort. God hides nothing. If God hides nothing, why should one ignore what is in favor of mere beliefs?

Yes, God is doing an excellent job in creation. God just isn't through creating you yet. This is the education stage. Look at our caveman days until now. We have learned a lot. WE are moving forward. Keep learning. Keep moving forward. Look to the future. There will come a day when it will be Glorious!!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

if you really seek, you will take the journey. Your journey will only be a Belief until you Discover God or the water.

Nobody ever Discovers God, and that is why all you have is a Belief.
All I have is a Belief, but unlike you, I did not make it up.

The Real Truth is that God is not what you seek. You fear God and are much more comfortable others do it for you. Maybe, you aren't up to the task of advanced thinking, searching and effort it would take to really understand and find God. Anyway. it is easier to label the journey impossible and stay comfortable within your box of Beliefs.

Nobody can ever understand or find God All you have is box of Beliefs about God, a box you are comfortable with.

As for myself, when I Discovered so much of religion did not add up, I had to Discover the Real Truth about God because it is about knowing and not mere believing.

You believe that much of religion does not add up because it contradicts your box of Beliefs about God.
You will never know the Real Truth about God since that is only available through God's Messengers.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

"You have asked the exact meaning of the term 'Fear of God' mentioned in Bahá'í Sacred Writings: It often means awe, but has also other connotations such as reverence, terror and fear."
(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, November 13, 1940)
Various, "Lights of Guidance", 18.789.1

"You ask him about the fear of God: perhaps the friends do not realize that the majority of human beings need the element of fear in order to discipline their conduct? Only a relatively very highly evolved soul would always be disciplined by love alone. Fear of punishment, fear of the anger of God if we do evil, are needed to keep people's feet on the right path. Of course we should love God — but we must fear Him in the sense of a child fearing the righteous anger and chastisement of a parent; not cringe before Him as before a tyrant, but know His mercy exceeds His Justice!"
(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, July 26, 1946: Bahá'í Education, A Compilation, compiled by the Universal House of Justice)
Various, "Lights of Guidance", 18.794.1

What are you teaching the children? Is it good to use fear or pain to manipulate the actions and choices of others? Is this teaching a Higher Level? This helps generate so many of the petty things mankind holds so dear such as anger, payback, ruling, controlling, and even hate.

Religions reflect mankind because religions are creations of mankind. This is not God!! There are better ways.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!!

 

[Trailblazer]

Love is not made in Fear. Fear creates a holding back and a limit. Why would you think God wants to limit you?

Your thinking is so simplistic, like that of a very small child. As they grow up children come to realize that Love and Fear can coexist.
Fear puts no limits on Love.

Fear is generated by the unknown. I do not fear God nor am I God fearing. If I Discover unknown, I venture toward that unknown to Discover it all. Knowing eliminates fear.

You have not Discovered anything about God. All you have is a box of Beliefs about God that you call Truth.
Nobody can know anything about God except for His attributes and His will for any given age, neither of which you know because those can only be known through the Messengers of God.

Mankind uses fear to manipulate, coerce and intimidate. To hide the evil, they convince you fearing God is good. Fear is the defense of religion and no one else.

Fear of God is mankind's greatest protection against evil and the chief instrument for the preservation of mankind.
Religion is the chief instrument for the establishment of order in the world and of tranquillity amongst its peoples.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

You spend all of your time pitching fits about labels, instead of addressing substance. You show no evidence of any real belief in a god. But merely in the burlesque of god belief. A mummer's show.

You do not know what a real belief in God is, let alone how to recognize one.

 

[Truthseeker]

What are you teaching the children? Is it good to use fear or pain to manipulate the actions and choices of others?

Funny you ask about children and the fear of god.

"That which is of paramount importance for the children, that which must precede all else, is to teach them the oneness of God and the Laws of God. For lacking this the fear of God cannot be inculcated, and lacking the fear of God an infinity of odious and abominable actions will spring up, and sentiments will be uttered that transgress all bounds...."
(Bahá'u'lláh: Bahá'í Education: A Compilation, p. 6, compiled by the Universal House of Justice)
Various, "Lights of Guidance", 18.786.1

The idea seems to be if they are taught the laws of god, and the oneness of God, and that breaking these laws could cause bad consequences for them, then their actions will fall into line without much disciplinary actions by the parents. God may be merciful though, but who knows?

 

[ppp]

You do not know what a real belief in God is, let alone how to recognize one.

On one hand I see people trying to claim and assert that they are not constantly making claims and assertions about what is true about the nature of the world; all the while laying down one claim and assertion after another. People who are merely interesting schilling for their religion. People who only stick to the party line.

And on the other hand, I see believers trying to honestly and candidly wrestle with their love of their god and what they sincerely believe to be his words and desires for humankind. People who openly own their assertions and their beliefs and their claims and their doubts and their convictions. People who do not mince words. People who do not quote mine definitions as feckless shields. People who do not shy away from the meaning of their beliefs in the real world and the impact of their beliefs upon others. People who own their own $h14.

There are a lot of religious people whom I respect. Some of whom I would be happy to support in many arenas. Some of whom utterly disgust me, and I would oppose at every turn. I know Baha'i from either category.

But on this board, all that I see from Baha'i is marketing, PR and attempts to avoid owning their own claims and assertions. All that I see from the Baha'i here are the customer service scripts. Crafted by committee. Faithfully repeated. Synthesized corporate authenticity.

 

[Bird123]

You won't find a religion that truly understands because you impose your views on them. Therefore even if God does explain everything perfectly, because it does not suit you it would be wrong.

Revelations can get altered but he can always send newer revelation that would not. The Quran is not altered.

There is no reason for God to not explain things in your way if your way was the truth. But you won't find proof from God for your viewpoint so you say God won't speak to nor guide mankind through holy books.

Imposing views? I am not imposing anything. I am seeing what actually is. Aren't you doing more accepting than questioning? Why would a Being capable of creating universes have wrath due to the choices or actions of anyone? God can create universes but can't handle a few wayward children? Your math does not add up. How much more does not add up? Would a God at a Higher Level really teach His children to value the petty things mankind holds so dear? Your math does not add up. Why send a holy book when God could implant the knowledge from birth? Your math does not add up. Why is believing in God so important? Wouldn't knowing be better than mere believing? Your math does not add up.

Since so much does not add up, explain what is it that you like so well that you would choose to ignore that which fails to add up?

To question is the start on the journey to Discovery. I could never be one to blindly accept and follow even if I was taught from a small child. One is supposed to advance far beyond the mere sum of one's teachings. We are all meant to Think!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Ebionite]

God may be merciful though, but who knows?

For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
James 2:13

 

[Trailblazer]

For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
James 2:13

God does not judge without mercy because God is just.

Romans 9
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f]

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why would a Being capable of creating universes have wrath due to the choices or actions of anyone?

Because He does not like their choices. However, God's mercy surpasses the fury of His wrath.

 

[Trailblazer]

Your math does not add up. Why send a holy book when God could implant the knowledge from birth?

God sends Messengers who reveal holy books because that is what God chooses to do.
God does not implant knowledge from birth because that is not what God chooses to do.
God only does what God chooses to do because God is Unrestrained and All-Powerful. It is that simple.

“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.” Gleanings, p. 209

“Say: He ordaineth as He pleaseth, by virtue of His sovereignty, and doeth whatsoever He willeth at His own behest. He shall not be asked of the things it pleaseth Him to ordain. He, in truth, is the Unrestrained, the All-Powerful, the All-Wise.” Gleanings, p, 284

 

[Ebionite]

God does not judge without mercy because God is just.

That's a non sequitur. Justice and mercy are different things. Justice rewards good for good and evil for evil.

Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took [him] by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Matthew 18:23-34

 

[Trailblazer]

That's a non sequitur. Justice and mercy are different things. Justice rewards good for good and evil for evil.

Okay, I corrected that.
God does not judge without mercy because God is merciful. God's surpassing mercy has restrained the fury of His wrath

“Say: Observe equity in your judgment, ye men of understanding heart! He that is unjust in his judgment is destitute of the characteristics that distinguish man’s station. He Who is the Eternal Truth knoweth well what the breasts of men conceal. His long forbearance hath emboldened His creatures, for not until the appointed time is come will He rend any veil asunder. His surpassing mercy hath restrained the fury of His wrath, and caused most people to imagine that the one true God is unaware of the things they have privily committed. By Him Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Informed! The mirror of His knowledge reflecteth, with complete distinctness, precision and fidelity, the doings of all men. Say: Praise be to Thee, O Concealer of the sins of the weak and helpless! Magnified be Thy name, O Thou that forgivest the heedless ones that trespass against Thee!”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 204

 

[Link]

Imposing views? I am not imposing anything. I am seeing what actually is. Aren't you doing more accepting than questioning? Why would a Being capable of creating universes have wrath due to the choices or actions of anyone? God can create universes but can't handle a few wayward children? Your math does not add up. How much more does not add up? Would a God at a Higher Level really teach His children to value the petty things mankind holds so dear? Your math does not add up. Why send a holy book when God could implant the knowledge from birth? Your math does not add up. Why is believing in God so important? Wouldn't knowing be better than mere believing? Your math does not add up.

Since so much does not add up, explain what is it that you like so well that you would choose to ignore that which fails to add up?

To question is the start on the journey to Discovery. I could never be one to blindly accept and follow even if I was taught from a small child. One is supposed to advance far beyond the mere sum of one's teachings. We are all meant to Think!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

So God can't guide you also because to you accepting his guidance would be blind belief. It doesn't add up to you, because you won't give God a chance to teach you. You know everything and don't know need anyone.

 

[Bird123]

Nobody ever Discovers God, and that is why all you have is a Belief.
All I have is a Belief, but unlike you, I did not make it up.

Nobody can ever understand or find God All you have is box of Beliefs about God, a box you are comfortable with.

You believe that much of religion does not add up because it contradicts your box of Beliefs about God.
You will never know the Real Truth about God since that is only available through God's Messengers.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

You do not listen. When I discovered religion did not add up. that is when I went looking for the Real Truth. I was even open to the possibility that God did not exist.

You assume I am making things up because it is different from what you want to believe. Another excuse.

OK, get specific. What is it that you think I am making up? I have shown you where your math does not add up. Show me where my math does not add up. Surely, if one is making things up, something will not add up.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Nobody ever Discovers God, and that is why all you have is a Belief.
All I have is a Belief, but unlike you, I did not make it up.

Nobody can ever understand or find God All you have is box of Beliefs about God, a box you are comfortable with.

You believe that much of religion does not add up because it contradicts your box of Beliefs about God.
You will never know the Real Truth about God since that is only available through God's Messengers.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

You do not listen. When I discovered religion did not add up. that is when I went looking for the Real Truth. I was even open to the possibility that God did not exist.

You assume I am making things up because it is different from what you want to believe. Another excuse.

OK, get specific. What is it that you think I am making up? I have shown you where your math does not add up. Show me where my math does not add up. Surely, if one is making things up, something will not add up.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

You do not listen. When I discovered religion did not add up. that is when I went looking for the Real Truth. I was even open to the possibility that God did not exist.

I have been listening to you for over five years and you have not said anything new.
What you discovered is that you do not like what religion teaches but that does not mean religion does not add up.
Don't you understand that what you are saying 'does not add up' about religion is only your personal opinion of religion?

So you went looking for the Real Truth and you believe you found it. However, what you call the Real Truth is just what you believe is the Real Truth. You have no way of knowing what the Real Truth is about God since you have no way of knowing anything about God.

You assume I am making things up because it is different from what you want to believe. Another excuse.

It is not because what you believe is different from what I want to believe. I want to believe what is true.

I think you are making things up because you have no 'source' for any knowledge of God except yourself. That means that whatever you believe you made up. Essentially what you did was create a version of God that you are comfortable with, a God that is everything you want Him to be and nothing you don't want Him to be.

OK, get specific. What is it that you think I am making up?

Everything you believe is something you made up, since it came from you and nowhere else.

I have shown you where your math does not add up. Show me where my math does not add up. Surely, if one is making things up, something will not add up.

You have not shown me anything except what you believe is wrong with religion.
Math is not involved. When you say that 'the math does not add up' all that means is that it does not make sense to you.
What you believe 'doesn't add up' is nothing more than something you disagree with.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!