What does God want from you?

[CG Didymus]

You do not listen. When I discovered religion did not add up. that is when I went looking for the Real Truth. I was even open to the possibility that God did not exist.

You assume I am making things up because it is different from what you want to believe. Another excuse.

OK, get specific. What is it that you think I am making up? I have shown you where your math does not add up. Show me where my math does not add up. Surely, if one is making things up, something will not add up.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Again, what's strange is for many people in many "organized" religions, like fundy Chrisatianity or the Baha'is, things in the other religions don't add up. They too don't believe the "real" truth is found in those other religions. Baha'is are a little better than fundy Christians, because they don't believe those other major religions are totally wrong but not totally right either.

It only you got your beliefs from a Baha'i approved "manifestation", then added your interpretation to it, meaning it didn't agree with the Baha'i interpretation, you'd be almost okay with the Baha'is. And that is exactly their problem with all the other major religions. The nowhere to found "original" teachings of the manifestation were dead on accurate and the real truth, then the followers added in and misinterpreted them.

So really, all Baha'is have that is supposedly real truth is what their religion teaches. You and every person that is following some form of any of the other religions today is going to be off a little or a lot no matter what they believe. But, like I said, that better than what a fundy Christain believes. They are taught that all the other religions, except Judaism, is a totally false religion and that they are following a false prophet.

 

[Bird123]

Your thinking is so simplistic, like that of a very small child. As they grow up children come to realize that Love and Fear can coexist.
Fear puts no limits on Love.

You have not Discovered anything about God. All you have is a box of Beliefs about God that you call Truth.
Nobody can know anything about God except for His attributes and His will for any given age, neither of which you know because those can only be known through the Messengers of God.

Fear of God is mankind's greatest protection against evil and the chief instrument for the preservation of mankind.
Religion is the chief instrument for the establishment of order in the world and of tranquillity amongst its peoples.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

You say no one can know anything about God except messengers. Since I know of God, by your definition, I am a messenger. Did you tell your others messengers they don't know God? You can't have it both ways. If you are going to pick which beliefs you like, why do you need messengers or religions at all?

One can Love someone and still have fear of them, however do not ignore the limits fear places of everything.

Clearly you value so many of the petty things mankind holds so dear. You will continue to do so until the lessons that will bring you understanding are completed. Your journey would be much quicker if you were open to possibilities beyond your box of beliefs. On the other hand, there is no time limit on learning.

Is religion really the chief instrument for the establishment of order in this world. You are going to have to explain that one to me. I do not see it. Whose order are you talking about? Everyone wants to rule the world is one of mankind's greatest problems to overcome. If God allows total freedom of choice, why must you desire to order the control of the choices of others?

Perhaps, if you look around and copy God instead of holy books written by mankind, the world could change before your eyes.

Of course, the lessons you choose and the journey you take are always up to you. I would never attempt to establish or control the order by which your free choices take you.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Funny you ask about children and the fear of god.

"That which is of paramount importance for the children, that which must precede all else, is to teach them the oneness of God and the Laws of God. For lacking this the fear of God cannot be inculcated, and lacking the fear of God an infinity of odious and abominable actions will spring up, and sentiments will be uttered that transgress all bounds...."
(Bahá'u'lláh: Bahá'í Education: A Compilation, p. 6, compiled by the Universal House of Justice)
Various, "Lights of Guidance", 18.786.1

The idea seems to be if they are taught the laws of god, and the oneness of God, and that breaking these laws could cause bad consequences for them, then their actions will fall into line without much disciplinary actions by the parents. God may be merciful though, but who knows?

God has no laws. Mankind is the one attempting control through laws.

It is perfectly ok to teach children and people what brings the best results. On the other hand, sometimes Living the results will teach far more than attempting to limit or control others especially through pain.

If you restrict choices, they are going to choose the opposite anyway as soon as they are free. Do not shelter your children from the so called evils of the world. Teach them how to deal with the so called evils of the world from a Higher Level without those petty things mankind holds so dear.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Because He does not like their choices. However, God's mercy surpasses the fury of His wrath.

You greatly underestimate God. Do you really think God doesn't already know what choice will be made? Do you really think God could not get them to choose anything? You can choose to try and place limits on God so that your beliefs fit, however that is not Reality.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

God sends Messengers who reveal holy books because that is what God chooses to do.
God does not implant knowledge from birth because that is not what God chooses to do.
God only does what God chooses to do because God is Unrestrained and All-Powerful. It is that simple.

“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.” Gleanings, p. 209

“Say: He ordaineth as He pleaseth, by virtue of His sovereignty, and doeth whatsoever He willeth at His own behest. He shall not be asked of the things it pleaseth Him to ordain. He, in truth, is the Unrestrained, the All-Powerful, the All-Wise.” Gleanings, p, 284

Picture a Being capable of creating universes. Is God's answer really Cause I said so??

Does God really lack that much Intelligence? Give me a break here. Cause I said so is mankind's way of hiding truth and not being questioned. Those who don't want you to question do not want you to Discover the Truth.

God wants everyone to question everything. God is hiding nothing. God wants you to Discover everything.

We are all meant to THINK!!! rather than merely accept, follow and never questioning.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

So God can't guide you also because to you accepting his guidance would be blind belief. It doesn't add up to you, because you won't give God a chance to teach you. You know everything and don't know need anyone.

You Greatly Underestimate God. God guides without saying a word. It starts with the parameters of this particular physical life along with those in your life to interact with you.

Do you remember when I spoke of the different combinations of interactions among 7 billion people being amazing? God is working on multiple levels with multiple views. You have no idea of God's capabilities. Is this too advanced? Not advanced enough. Everything was figured out since the beginning of the universe itself. Holy books exist as a catalyst. The picture is much much larger than you realize.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

You say no one can know anything about God except messengers. Since I know of God, by your definition, I am a messenger.

You believe that you know God, but that does not mean that you really know God. Lots of people believe they know God but that does not mean they really know God or that they are messengers of God.

Did you tell your others messengers they don't know God? You can't have it both ways.

I never met a Messenger of God, but if I did I would not tell Him He was not a Messenger of God. Just imagine someone, anyone, telling Jesus He was not a Prophet/Messenger of God. That is patently absurd.

What a Messenger of God has that you do not have is evidence to back up His claim that He was a Messenger of God. There is more than enough evidence for Messengers such as Jesus and Baha'u'llah.

If you are going to pick which beliefs you like, why do you need messengers or religions at all?

That is not what I do, pick beliefs that I like. That is what you do so that is projection.
You pick beliefs that you like and if they are in conflict with what a Messenger revealed, you toss what the Messenger taught in the trash.

One can Love someone and still have fear of them, however do not ignore the limits fear places of everything.

Fear places limits on human behavior but fear of God places no limits on anyone.

Clearly you value so many of the petty things mankind holds so dear. You will continue to do so until the lessons that will bring you understanding are completed. Your journey would be much quicker if you were open to possibilities beyond your box of beliefs. On the other hand, there is no time limit on learning.

How many times are you going to repeat the same old mantra about the 'petty things mankind holds so dear', 100 times, 1000 times?
What you consider petty is just what you consider petty but nothing that was revealed by Messengers of God is petty.
Whatever you do not like about what religion teaches you call petty. That is as clear as the nose on my face.

Is religion really the chief instrument for the establishment of order in this world. You are going to have to explain that one to me. I do not see it.

Maybe you would understand why religion is so vital to humanity if you read the Writings of Baha'u'llah. I never saw it before I read and studied those Writings.

Whose order are you talking about? Everyone wants to rule the world is one of mankind's greatest problems to overcome.

I do not know if you are talking about ruling the world in a political sense. That can never happen in a Baha'i World because of the way the Faith is set up as a democracy.

If God allows total freedom of choice, why must you desire to order the control of the choices of others?

What ever gave you the idea that I desire to control the choices of others? I believe in total freedom of choice for everyone. Everyone is free to choose what to believe and whether to join a religion or not. If they choose to belong to a religion does not take away their free choice.

Perhaps, if you look around and copy God instead of holy books written by mankind, the world could change before your eyes.

Copy God? Nobody can ever know what God is 'doing' at any time, so nobody can ever copy God.

The holy books were written by man but they were inspired by God through the Holy Spirit.
The only holy books that were written in the pens of Messengers of God were the writings of the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

 

[Trailblazer]

God has no laws. Mankind is the one attempting control through laws.

God has always revealed laws through the Messengers. The Law of God is mankind's greatest protection.
If everyone followed the Laws of God there would be no evil in the world. This is the only way to eliminate evil.

“God hath in that Book, and by His behest, decreed as lawful whatsoever He hath pleased to decree, and hath, through the power of His sovereign might, forbidden whatsoever He elected to forbid. To this testifieth the text of that Book. Will ye not bear witness? Men, however, have wittingly broken His law. Is such a behavior to be attributed to God, or to their proper selves? Be fair in your judgment. Every good thing is of God, and every evil thing is from yourselves. Will ye not comprehend? This same truth hath been revealed in all the Scriptures, if ye be of them that understand.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 149-150

 

[Trailblazer]

You greatly underestimate God. Do you really think God doesn't already know what choice will be made? Do you really think God could not get them to choose anything? You can choose to try and place limits on God so that your beliefs fit, however that is not Reality.

Of course God already knows what choices everyone will make because God is All-Knowing.
God could get people to choose anything God wanted them to choose because God is All-Powerful.

However, God does not 'get people' to choose anything. That would interfere with their free will to choose.
God allows people to choose whatever they want to choose, and that is why there is both good and evil in this world.
If God does not like peoples' choices He allows them nonetheless.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

Picture a Being capable of creating universes. Is God's answer really Cause I said so??

No, God's answer is because I am All-Powerful, I will do only what I choose to do.

Does God really lack that much Intelligence? Give me a break here. Cause I said so is mankind's way of hiding truth and not being questioned. Those who don't want you to question do not want you to Discover the Truth.

We should do our questioning before we ever believe that a man is a Messenger of God, but once we accept that, we accept that what the Messenger wrote came from God, so we do not question it, since that would be like questioning God.

God wants everyone to question everything. God is hiding nothing. God wants you to Discover everything.

God does not want us to question His Word that comes through the Messenger. We can question everything else.

 

[Link]

You Greatly Underestimate God. God guides without saying a word. It starts with the parameters of this particular physical life along with those in your life to interact with you.

Do you remember when I spoke of the different combinations of interactions among 7 billion people being amazing? God is working on multiple levels with multiple views. You have no idea of God's capabilities. Is this too advanced? Not advanced enough. Everything was figured out since the beginning of the universe itself. Holy books exist as a catalyst. The picture is much much larger than you realize.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

It's not underestimation of God to say he would guide his creation through words and appointing guides. Rather, saying he wouldn't is underestimating him.

Amazing how you want to learn from everyone except God.

 

[Truthseeker]

It is perfectly ok to teach children and people what brings the best results. On the other hand, sometimes Living the results will teach far more than attempting to limit or control others especially through pain.

I agree that living the results are a very effective way for parents to teach their children. If they don't live the teachings, probably the children will see the hypocrisy and reject the teaching.

 

[Bird123]

I have been listening to you for over five years and you have not said anything new.
What you discovered is that you do not like what religion teaches but that does not mean religion does not add up.
Don't you understand that what you are saying 'does not add up' about religion is only your personal opinion of religion?

So you went looking for the Real Truth and you believe you found it. However, what you call the Real Truth is just what you believe is the Real Truth. You have no way of knowing what the Real Truth is about God since you have no way of knowing anything about God.

It is not because what you believe is different from what I want to believe. I want to believe what is true.

I think you are making things up because you have no 'source' for any knowledge of God except yourself. That means that whatever you believe you made up. Essentially what you did was create a version of God that you are comfortable with, a God that is everything you want Him to be and nothing you don't want Him to be.

Everything you believe is something you made up, since it came from you and nowhere else.

You have not shown me anything except what you believe is wrong with religion.
Math is not involved. When you say that 'the math does not add up' all that means is that it does not make sense to you.
What you believe 'doesn't add up' is nothing more than something you disagree with.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

I point to where you can Discover what I have been telling you. If you want to rely on your beliefs, that is your choice. truth is not what you seek.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Again, what's strange is for many people in many "organized" religions, like fundy Chrisatianity or the Baha'is, things in the other religions don't add up. They too don't believe the "real" truth is found in those other religions. Baha'is are a little better than fundy Christians, because they don't believe those other major religions are totally wrong but not totally right either.

It only you got your beliefs from a Baha'i approved "manifestation", then added your interpretation to it, meaning it didn't agree with the Baha'i interpretation, you'd be almost okay with the Baha'is. And that is exactly their problem with all the other major religions. The nowhere to found "original" teachings of the manifestation were dead on accurate and the real truth, then the followers added in and misinterpreted them.

So really, all Baha'is have that is supposedly real truth is what their religion teaches. You and every person that is following some form of any of the other religions today is going to be off a little or a lot no matter what they believe. But, like I said, that better than what a fundy Christain believes. They are taught that all the other religions, except Judaism, is a totally false religion and that they are following a false prophet.

Yes, you are right. On the other hand, life and truth are not about beliefs. God places knowledge and truth all around us. It waits to be Discovered. I understand how many limit themselves through beliefs. Those are lessons to learn.

I merely copy God by placing truth in the world. Like God does, what ever choices others make is entirely up to them. Since there is no time limit on learning, each will Discover what I have been saying, in time, anyway. Those that are ready will see the direction by which I am pointing.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

You believe that you know God, but that does not mean that you really know God. Lots of people believe they know God but that does not mean they really know God or that they are messengers of God.

I never met a Messenger of God, but if I did I would not tell Him He was not a Messenger of God. Just imagine someone, anyone, telling Jesus He was not a Prophet/Messenger of God. That is patently absurd.

What a Messenger of God has that you do not have is evidence to back up His claim that He was a Messenger of God. There is more than enough evidence for Messengers such as Jesus and Baha'u'llah.

That is not what I do, pick beliefs that I like. That is what you do so that is projection.
You pick beliefs that you like and if they are in conflict with what a Messenger revealed, you toss what the Messenger taught in the trash.

Fear places limits on human behavior but fear of God places no limits on anyone.

How many times are you going to repeat the same old mantra about the 'petty things mankind holds so dear', 100 times, 1000 times?
What you consider petty is just what you consider petty but nothing that was revealed by Messengers of God is petty.
Whatever you do not like about what religion teaches you call petty. That is as clear as the nose on my face.

Maybe you would understand why religion is so vital to humanity if you read the Writings of Baha'u'llah. I never saw it before I read and studied those Writings.

I do not know if you are talking about ruling the world in a political sense. That can never happen in a Baha'i World because of the way the Faith is set up as a democracy.

What ever gave you the idea that I desire to control the choices of others? I believe in total freedom of choice for everyone. Everyone is free to choose what to believe and whether to join a religion or not. If they choose to belong to a religion does not take away their free choice.

Copy God? Nobody can ever know what God is 'doing' at any time, so nobody can ever copy God.

The holy books were written by man but they were inspired by God through the Holy Spirit.
The only holy books that were written in the pens of Messengers of God were the writings of the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

What did you say your proof was that messengers are bringing messages from God? Mankind's word of it? Their messages prove they are not from God.

To question is the start on the journey to Discovery. I am Happy to question Jesus or Baha. The holy books reflect mankind more than anything else. As for Jesus, I never met Jesus nor have read anything Jesus had written. Without more evidence, I can not make any other statement other than Jesus is a child of God just like we all are.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

God has always revealed laws through the Messengers. The Law of God is mankind's greatest protection.
If everyone followed the Laws of God there would be no evil in the world. This is the only way to eliminate evil.

“God hath in that Book, and by His behest, decreed as lawful whatsoever He hath pleased to decree, and hath, through the power of His sovereign might, forbidden whatsoever He elected to forbid. To this testifieth the text of that Book. Will ye not bear witness? Men, however, have wittingly broken His law. Is such a behavior to be attributed to God, or to their proper selves? Be fair in your judgment. Every good thing is of God, and every evil thing is from yourselves. Will ye not comprehend? This same truth hath been revealed in all the Scriptures, if ye be of them that understand.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 149-150

Your assumptions do not live up to reality.
If God created everything, didn't God create evil or the possibility of evil?

Blame is a petty thing mankind holds so dear. Why must you Blame, Judge, Condemn, Hate. and want to punish and hurt others in an attempt to alter their actions and choices? Can't you see what is instead of valuing those petty thing then creating a we against they? Where is your Higher Level???

God is good. God couldn't possible create evil, or God would be evil, right? Expand your very narrow and limited view. Ponder the question. How could evil be a good thing?

You are blind to so very much. You even think you do not value the petty thing of control. The truth stares you in the face. Will you ignore it in favor of that box of beliefs? Don't those beliefs allow you to value all those petty things? Until you really understand all sides of those petty things you will not understand what I am even saying to you.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Of course God already knows what choices everyone will make because God is All-Knowing.
God could get people to choose anything God wanted them to choose because God is All-Powerful.

However, God does not 'get people' to choose anything. That would interfere with their free will to choose.
God allows people to choose whatever they want to choose, and that is why there is both good and evil in this world.
If God does not like peoples' choices He allows them nonetheless.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Your quote:
However, God does not 'get people' to choose anything. That would interfere with their free will to choose.
God allows people to choose whatever they want to choose, and that is why there is both good and evil in this world.
If God does not like peoples' choices He allows them nonetheless.

My answer: To what end does God do this?

 

[Bird123]

No, God's answer is because I am All-Powerful, I will do only what I choose to do.

We should do our questioning before we ever believe that a man is a Messenger of God, but once we accept that, we accept that what the Messenger wrote came from God, so we do not question it, since that would be like questioning God.

God does not want us to question His Word that comes through the Messenger. We can question everything else.

Truth was once that an atom was the smallest part of an element. People continued to question then Discovered that was never the truth. What was truth turned out to be a mere Belief.

Truth must always be questioned, even long held truth about God. Real Truth will never change. If one accepts and refuses to question, one does not seek the Real Truth. Why do you no longer seek the Truth? Is what you have accepted felt so good that it couldn't possibly be wrong? Real Truth will not always be an agreeable thing?

What is it that you really seek? Once again, those who do not want you to question; do not want you to know the truth. This is not God. God hides nothing. God wants everyone to question everything. Why? To question is the start on the journey to Discovery. God wants you to Discover it all. Wisdom is acquired along the journey to Discover it all.

That's what I see. it's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

It's not underestimation of God to say he would guide his creation through words and appointing guides. Rather, saying he wouldn't is underestimating him.

Amazing how you want to learn from everyone except God.

Your quote:Amazing how you want to learn from everyone except God.

My Answer: I do not understand this statement. God is who I am learning from. That is how I know holy books do not come from God.

You have no clue of the level and depth of God. We are but mere ants. There is a endless supply of knowledge to learn. When one thinks the simplicity is the answer, one opens doors to a new level with complexities beyond imagination. Example: Mankind learning about medicine and people then open the door to Discover DNA. How long is it going to take now to understand? You can bet there will be a new door at the end to lead us all forward.

This hungry student will move forward ,learning from God, toward that Higher Level.

See what exists around us all. God hides nothing. God's true actions reflect who God really is. Your book could never come close to capture what you think it does.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

I agree that living the results are a very effective way for parents to teach their children. If they don't live the teachings, probably the children will see the hypocrisy and reject the teaching.

You are right. Do as I say and not as I do will lead children to think that was never a viable choice in the first place. Of course, life is a learning experience. Children might Discover otherwise later in life.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!