What does God want from you?

[Trailblazer]

If you must have a Belief system written by mankind, I think you have found one you like very well.

If you must have a Belief system created by yourself, I think you have found one you like very well.

I can not value any Belief system especially one that reflects mankind, values and teaches those petty things mankind holds so dear, and has absolutely no clue about God. Like you, they assume what they want to be true instead of Discovering what actually is.

I cannot value any Belief system created by a man, unless He was a Messenger of God.

I place Real Truth in the world. What anyone chooses to do with truth is up to them.

Baha'u'llah placed Real Truth in the world. What anyone chooses to do with truth is up to them.

If you believe what I say is not Real Truth, you have two choices. Journey to Discover what I say is Truth or simply walk away. Choose! It has always been in your hands!!

If you believe what Baha'u'llah revealed is not Real Truth, you can simply walk away. Choose! It has always been in your hands!!

 

[Bird123]

Bird 123 said: Ask your atheists what they think of Baha.
Trailblazer said: I already know.
Bird123 said: Ego gets in the way of so much learning.

That is not ego. I know because atheists have been telling me for 10 years.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

How much have you heard? Did you listen or did you tell?

OK! Tell me what they said about Baha that does not add up?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

If you must have a Belief system created by yourself, I think you have found one you like very well.

I cannot value any Belief system created by a man, unless He was a Messenger of God.

Baha'u'llah placed Real Truth in the world. What anyone chooses to do with truth is up to them.

If you believe what Baha'u'llah revealed is not Real Truth, you can simply walk away. Choose! It has always been in your hands!!

I do not have a Belief system as you do. How do I know? I am not capable of creating God's system. I also lack the capability of keeping up with all the dynamics. On the other hand, I can learn a little bit at a time ever advancing forward. There is more that I don't know than I do. On the other hand, I am a Hungry student.

I know Baha does not understand nor reflect God. It reflects mankind. Upon seeing this in Baha I have never walked toward Baha. I walk toward Knowledge, Wisdom, and High Intelligence that can teach me the Higher Level. I continue to learn and grow. Why would I wander away from that? Your Math does not add up!!

You say Baha is it. How could they be it when the Math does not add up? If you ignore the Math, you wander from the Real Truth.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

I do not have a Belief system as you do. How do I know?

You don't know anything about God's system, you only believe you know.

I know Baha does not understand nor reflect God. It reflects mankind.

No, you do not know that, you only believe it.
What you say reflects mankind since you are part of mankind.
Baha'u'llah by contrast had a twofold nature, one human and one divine, so he reflected both of those natures.

I continue to learn and grow. Why would I wander away from that? Your Math does not add up!!

You say Baha is it. How could they be it when the Math does not add up? If you ignore the Math, you wander from the Real Truth.

I continue to learn and grow. Why would I wander away from that?
Your Math does not add up!! If you ignore the Math, you wander from the Real Truth.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

How much have you heard? Did you listen or did you tell?

I listened, for over 10 years. They asked questions and I answered their questions, and then I listened to their answers.

OK! Tell me what they said about Baha that does not add up?

I did not say that what they said did not add up. It added up for them, just as what I believe adds up for me.

 

[Bird123]

You don't know anything about God's system, you only believe you know.

No, you do not know that, you only believe it.
What you say reflects mankind since you are part of mankind.
Baha'u'llah by contrast had a twofold nature, one human and one divine, so he reflected both of those natures.

I continue to learn and grow. Why would I wander away from that?
Your Math does not add up!! If you ignore the Math, you wander from the Real Truth.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

What about what I have said does not add up?

 

[Bird123]

I listened, for over 10 years. They asked questions and I answered their questions, and then I listened to their answers.

I did not say that what they said did not add up. It added up for them, just as what I believe adds up for me.

I'll ask again. What did they say about Baha that did not add up?

 

[Bird123]

I listened, for over 10 years. They asked questions and I answered their questions, and then I listened to their answers.

I did not say that what they said did not add up. It added up for them, just as what I believe adds up for me.

I'll ask again. What did they say about Baha that did not add up?

 

[Trailblazer]

What about what I have said does not add up?

Your rejection of the Messengers of God.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'll ask again. What did they say about Baha that did not add up?

That Baha'u'llah was not a Messenger of God.

 

[Bird123]

Your rejection of the Messengers of God.

When you Discover God for yourself, you will see Messengers do not understand God at all. When you see messengers valuing and teaching the petty things mankind holds so dear, you will know they do not represent God. When you see the messengers reflect mankind more than anything else, you will know they do not represent God.

It all adds up perfectly. You are just lacking too many pieces to know this. Further, when you accept instead of question the messengers, you limit yourself from Discovering the Truth for yourself. Why do you not question those messengers?

The messengers say they have contact with God and you believe right away. I say I have and you say I am immediately wrong. What do the messengers say that you like so well? Why do you want middlemen between you and God?

I can not change what actually what is to fit your beliefs. If I did, I would no longer be within the realm of Real Truth. Since I do not value Beliefs as you do. We will always be in different places. In time, you will Discover for yourself that what actually is will be better than all the beliefs in the world.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

That Baha'u'llah was not a Messenger of God.

How does it add up that Baha is a messenger of God? What tells you they are? Why would God want middlemen between Him and His children? Can you really think of no other way? Can you find nothing the Baha says that doesn't sound like God? What is it they tell you that you like so well that makes you say they are from God?

Are the Baha really a Higher Level like God? What about all those petty things mankind holds so dear that Baha value and teach? Is that really a Higher Level??

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

When you Discover God for yourself, you will see Messengers do not understand God at all.

When you Discover Messengers for yourself, you will realize that you did not understand God at all.

When you see messengers valuing and teaching the petty things mankind holds so dear, you will know they do not represent God. When you see the messengers reflect mankind more than anything else, you will know they do not represent God.

When you see that Messengers reflect God more than anything else, you will know they represent God.
What you believe are the petty things mankind holds so dear are what God revealed and it is not petty, except in your opinion.

It all adds up perfectly. You are just lacking too many pieces to know this.

It all adds up perfectly. You are just lacking too many pieces to know this.

Further, when you accept instead of question the messengers, you limit yourself from Discovering the Truth for yourself.

I already questioned the Messengers and I concluded that they are Messengers of God..
Believing in Messengers does not preclude my Discovering more truth for myself. That is what you do not understand.

Why do you not question those messengers?

Why do you not question yourself, what you believe you have Discovered?

The messengers say they have contact with God and you believe right away. I say I have and you say I am immediately wrong. What do the messengers say that you like so well? Why do you want middlemen between you and God?

I did not believe right away. I studied the religion before I believed.

I have no reason to believe that you have had any contact with God except what you say.
I do not believe that Baha'u'llah had contact with God just because "he said so."
There is a lot of evidence that supports His claim to be a Messenger of God. What evidence is there to support your claim?

I can not change what actually what is to fit your beliefs. If I did, I would no longer be within the realm of Real Truth.

What actually is and how do you know that it is?
What is Real Truth and how do you know it is Real Truth?

Since I do not value Beliefs as you do. We will always be in different places. In time, you will Discover for yourself that what actually is will be better than all the beliefs in the world.

All you have are Beliefs, so we are in the same place. My beliefs are based upon a religion and your beliefs are based upon what you believe you have Discovered.

What actually is? You have never answered that question.

 

[Trailblazer]

How does it add up that Baha is a messenger of God? What tells you they are?

The evidence tells me that Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God.

Why would God want middlemen between Him and His children? Can you really think of no other way?

Why would God want a direct connection to every human being on earth? Why would that be necessary?
No, I can think of no other way except middlemen, who are mediators between God and man. God uses them because there is no other way for man to get messages from God, since ordinary men could not understand God if God spoke to them directly.

Can you find nothing the Baha says that doesn't sound like God?

How would I know what sounds like God?

What is it they tell you that you like so well that makes you say they are from God?

It is not what I like that makes me believe they are from God. I don't like everything they say.

Are the Baha really a Higher Level like God? What about all those petty things mankind holds so dear that Baha value and teach? Is that really a Higher Level??

No, Baha'u'llah is not on a Higher Level than God. God is on a Higher Level.
Baha'u'llah did not teach anything petty that mankind holds dear. You say it is petty because you don't like it, but Truth is not about what we like.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Why would God want a direct connection to every human being on earth? Why would that be necessary?
No, I can think of no other way except middlemen, who are mediators between God and man. God uses them because there is no other way for man to get messages from God, since ordinary men could not understand God if God spoke to them directly.

I think I'll quote Omar Khayyâm, from his Rubáiyát:

“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”

 

[YoursTrue]

I think I'll quote Omar Khayyâm, from his Rubáiyát:

“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”

I used to read that type of literature before I became a Christian thinking I could learn something from it. I didn't. Alan Watts, things like that. None of it helped me. It wasn't until I asked God for help to understand who He was that He helped me. by means of the Bible and people that I admired for upholding godly qualities. Not mystical writings.

 

[CG Didymus]

I used to read that type of literature before I became a Christian thinking I could learn something from it. I didn't. Alan Watts, things like that. None of it helped me. It wasn't until I asked God for help to understand who He was that He helped me. by means of the Bible and people that I admired for upholding godly qualities. Not mystical writings.

You with Christianity. TB with the Baha'i Faith. Your beliefs contradict, but you both believe your religious beliefs are the truth. Religions are sometimes their own worst enemy.

 

[YoursTrue]

You with Christianity. TB with the Baha'i Faith. Your beliefs contradict, but you both believe your religious beliefs are the truth. Religions are sometimes their own worst enemy.

It's like going to a doctor that actually helps you. If I thought anything besides my faith in the God who reveals Himself to those who want to know Him could be found in any other religion, I'd go there. But I don't and my experience back that up to me. Not to you of course, but that has been my experience. Take care.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I used to read that type of literature before I became a Christian thinking I could learn something from it. I didn't. Alan Watts, things like that. None of it helped me. It wasn't until I asked God for help to understand who He was that He helped me. by means of the Bible and people that I admired for upholding godly qualities. Not mystical writings.

Any literature can help, by the simple expedient of giving you a new angle from which to look and think. The Bible is no different, and certainly no better than a lot of other choices. Especially all those begats and slayings, which I find not in the least spiritual. And the rape and murder of whole peoples are not among the things I call "godly qualities." But hey, whatever floats your ark.

 

[Bird123]

When you Discover Messengers for yourself, you will realize that you did not understand God at all.

When you see that Messengers reflect God more than anything else, you will know they represent God.
What you believe are the petty things mankind holds so dear are what God revealed and it is not petty, except in your opinion.

It all adds up perfectly. You are just lacking too many pieces to know this.

I already questioned the Messengers and I concluded that they are Messengers of God..
Believing in Messengers does not preclude my Discovering more truth for myself. That is what you do not understand.

Why do you not question yourself, what you believe you have Discovered?

I did not believe right away. I studied the religion before I believed.

I have no reason to believe that you have had any contact with God except what you say.
I do not believe that Baha'u'llah had contact with God just because "he said so."
There is a lot of evidence that supports His claim to be a Messenger of God. What evidence is there to support your claim?

What actually is and how do you know that it is?
What is Real Truth and how do you know it is Real Truth?

All you have are Beliefs, so we are in the same place. My beliefs are based upon a religion and your beliefs are based upon what you believe you have Discovered.

What actually is? You have never answered that question.

You still do not understand me. My goal has never ever been about getting you to believe anything. I point to where you can Discover for yourself. Perhaps part of my goal was to widen your view.

One who seeks questions everything. I question everything.

Discover the answers then get the visit. An audience with God is a very powerful thing. It is something that can not be duplicated by oneself or anyone. Further, I continue. There is so much more waiting in front of us all.

I think religion has corrupted us all in that believing factor. The results are so much better when one moves beyond mere believing. When one seeks proof, sometimes one does find the proof one seeks. If one does not seek at all, what can one really expect to find?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!