What does God want from you?

[Bird123]

God wants us to do what we want, however we want, for as long as we want.
The only laws we have to obey are the physical laws of the universe while we are here.

We can return to the abyss whenever we want. Those that figure that out either leave, their essence absorbed back into the abyss, becoming one with God or choose to continue an existence separate from the abyss here in the physical universe.

Your quote:
God wants us to do what we want, however we want, for as long as we want.
The only laws we have to obey are the physical laws of the universe while we are here.

My Answer: Very good!! It is so obvious. This stares us all in the face. Free choice is an important part of God's system. You are right. We are all bound by the physical laws of this universe. On the other hand, perhaps there will come a time when the physical laws can be bent a bit.

I can not agree with the abyss part. Why? The experience of God's Unconditional Love will lead everyone forward. It is a Love that feels so good and so complete one would do anything for it. Unconditional Love is mighty hard to let go.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

So you didn't even notice when I twice set it out for you previously? You need to get that ol' dyslexia seen to. I said

Truth is a quality of statements and a statement is true to the extent that it corresponds with / accurately reflects objective reality.


Maths is entirely conceptual. That's why you'll never see an uninstantiated 2 running round in the wild. Before there can be two real trees, some human has to decide first that what she wants to count is trees, and second that the field in which she wants to count them is that hillside there ─ or as the case may be.


I'm not a mathematical Platonist. Roger Penrose and I may agree on many things, but that particular idea is pure woo.

How can you state something is true based on objective reality when there is so much of reality you do not understand or know about?

Math is Bigger than you think. Math is so much more than 1 plus1 is 2.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

So you didn't even notice when I twice set it out for you previously? You need to get that ol' dyslexia seen to. I said

Truth is a quality of statements and a statement is true to the extent that it corresponds with / accurately reflects objective reality.


Maths is entirely conceptual. That's why you'll never see an uninstantiated 2 running round in the wild. Before there can be two real trees, some human has to decide first that what she wants to count is trees, and second that the field in which she wants to count them is that hillside there ─ or as the case may be.


I'm not a mathematical Platonist. Roger Penrose and I may agree on many things, but that particular idea is pure woo.

How can you state something is true based on objective reality when there is so much of reality you do not understand or know about?

Math is Bigger than you think. Math is so much more than 1 plus1 is 2.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[blü 2]

How can you state something is true based on objective reality when there is so much of reality you do not understand or know about?

How can you state some entity has objective existence when it's not found in nature at all (otherwise you could show it to us) and exists only as a concept or thing imagined in an individual brain?

Especially considering you have no useful objective test what what is true and what is not.

 

[AnthonyGiarrusso]

God wants me to let you know to obey his orders.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

How can you state some entity has objective existence when it's not found in nature at all (otherwise you could show it to us) and exists only as a concept or thing imagined in an individual brain?

Especially considering you have no useful objective test what what is true and what is not.

Does justice not exist? Does love not exist? Many things exist that have no physical presence.

 

[blü 2]

Does justice not exist? Does love not exist? Many things exist that have no physical presence.

"Justice" is an abstraction, a concept in a human brain involving other abstractions eg 'fairness', 'right', 'society' &c which have their origins in human evolved and acculturated morality and also generalizations from observing human actions in reality. If no human brain with the concept of justice is present, then no justice is present.

"Love" is also the name of abstractions from observed conduct in humans. Human bonding ─ pairing to mate, parent to child, family, particular friendships &c ─ is a tendency from our hormones, where oxytocin is often mentioned, but probably other hormones as well. But as with "justice", nowhere is there "love" in the absence of a brain with the concept "love" associated with particular kinds of conduct.

Concepts exist as physical brain-states and processes in particular individuals. They're not things with objective existence out there in the world external to the self, galloping around on their own.

 

[Nakosis]

I can not agree with the abyss part. Why? The experience of God's Unconditional Love will lead everyone forward. It is a Love that feels so good and so complete one would do anything for it. Unconditional Love is mighty hard to let go.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”

 

[Gassim]

I have not read the entire Quran, however the parts that I did read were Threatening, Coercing, Manipulating. It tells that God will hurt you, punish you. God already knows your moves so you can escape. Doesn't it tell you to hurt nonbelievers. We are good. They are evil. The only way to get to God is through them. It values so many of the petty things mankind holds so dear. This proves it does not come from God simply because it does not reflect God and how God really is.

When the Quran uses and values these petty things, they are teaching others it is something to be used. This is not teaching goodness.

I have found no holy book that really Understands God at all. Religion is mankind's attempt to understand God. All religion are creations of mankind. That is who they reflect. Following mankind and beliefs can lead one no farther than the level they are at. This isn't God!!

Is there no goodness in holy books? There is some goodness in holy books. Words of Love, Kindness, and Helping others is something hard to mess up. Deep down, it is something we all know in our hearts. On the other hand goodness is not all what holy books are teaching. Sometimes, it 's easier for people to follow the ruling, controlling, manipulating and the we against they that seem to represent the power and might so many want. What is the old saying? Everybody wants to rule the world and some by any means.

Choose freely, however these are all lessons many choose to learn. It doesn't matter what anyone believes. God will, in time, teach everyone WHAT IS!!

Perhaps, you should start a new thread. How has the Quran hurt you and other people? Others could do the same with their holy books. Perhaps, another side will be seen.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

You need to read the whole Quran to understand thoroughly. How many verses did you read which state that Allah is forgiving merciful. All prophets were calling Allah's forgiveness for whatever sins people committed. Forgiveness verses are five more times than punishment. Did you read the following verse?

What would Allah do with your punishment if you are grateful and believe? And ever is Allah Appreciative and Knowing.

Chapter 4 verse 147

 

[Bird123]

How can you state some entity has objective existence when it's not found in nature at all (otherwise you could show it to us) and exists only as a concept or thing imagined in an individual brain?

Especially considering you have no useful objective test what what is true and what is not.

How can you ever know reality when you place limits on things? A Spiritual Being can not be defined in physical terms. On the other hand, actions of a Spiritual Being in the physical can be seen. Why? Because change can be observed in the physical. If one does not seek the understanding of change, does one really have the desire to Discover what is and how and why things are? Actions speak louder than mere words.

If you negate everything except this physical world as a possibility, you do not seek truth because you are not open to all possibilities. On the other hand, if one is hard headed and was given unlimited time, one would Discover the Spiritual in time at the interface. Of course, one might need eons in order to stumble into something being ignored.

How about this: Say I have a friend named John. I told John of my friend blu2. I told John the path by which John might reach blu2 however it is a journey with lots of work. John tells me blu2 does not exist. You are imagining blu2. I tell John I know blu2 exists the same as I know you exist. If I say blu2 does not exist, I must say John does not exist either. How can John not exist when I am talking to John? John says no blu2 does not exist. You just believe blu2 exists. Blu2 is the same as Superman or Santa Claus. I tell John. I have placed truth in your life. If you want to find John, I have pointed you in the direction by which you can Discover for yourself.

Say you and I meet each other in the desert. You ask if there is water anywhere. I say go east 5 miles and there is a oasis with lots of water. What you seek is your choice. You can choose to go and find the water or not. If you decide to go, that water will always be a Belief to you until you actually Find the water. You have a Belief yet I had a fact. When I Discovered the water, it became a Fact to me.

Know yourself. What is it that you really seek? Figure out why and you will take a step forward.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”

I would say he is mistaken or the person quoting him is mistaken. We are all Spiritual beings in our true natures. We are all Eternal.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

You need to read the whole Quran to understand thoroughly. How many verses did you read which state that Allah is forgiving merciful. All prophets were calling Allah's forgiveness for whatever sins people committed. Forgiveness verses are five more times than punishment. Did you read the following verse?

What would Allah do with your punishment if you are grateful and believe? And ever is Allah Appreciative and Knowing.

Chapter 4 verse 147

You must widen your view and question everything instead of accepting if you are ever to see a Bigger Picture.

Why would Allah need to forgive or be merciful in the first place? Would not Allah already know what you are going to do?

Sins? What Sins? Is it a sin to make a choice in order to Discover what that choice really means? No one gets good without making bad choices. One learns what not to do. Sure, one can be told a choice is bad, however one can only really learn through Living those Lessons.

Isn't it evil to label others as bad. Isn't a bad choice merely a lack of knowledge of all the sides? What are you teaching others when you label them as sinners, evil, or bad? Before long people are blaming, judging, condemning, and hating. Is teaching people to hate or feel bad about themselves really goodness or the Higher Level of God?

Is religion really teaching only goodness? Religion must find something wrong with you so they can be the fix. They will tell you they come from God, yet doesn't their actions and choices prove otherwise?



God's system works on free choices. I say make them freely. Discover what the best choices really are. One should Nurture the Goodness in others instead of trying to convince them of how rotten they are. We can all lead each other to the Best choices with Unconditional Love and Kindness in order to Teach others through our words and actions. Does this sound like a Higher Level?

God's children are a WE!! an US!! It has never ever been a WE against They.

God gave everyone a different view to guaranty mankind a larger view than any one person could have. There is Great knowledge living within diversity. Great knowledge lives beyond the mere surface. It all stares us in the face.

Mankind is a controlling lot. I say listen to the advice of others but choose your own path. Life's lessons are Best learned that way.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[loverofhumanity]

This is one explanation from an Islamic saying.


I was a Treasure unknown then I desired to be known so I created a creation to which I made Myself known; then they knew Me.

By creating us God shared things like love, compassion, mercy, justice and all the other virtues and attributes. Otherwise we would be like the rocks, trees and animals incapable and devoid of spirituality or intellectual reasoning, just certain senses.

 

[blü 2]

How can you ever know reality when you place limits on things? A Spiritual Being can not be defined in physical terms.

In other words, it has no other existence than as conceptual / imaginary.

On the other hand, actions of a Spiritual Being in the physical can be seen. Why? Because change can be observed in the physical.

You have not the slightest support for that claim ─ not a single authenticated instance anywhere.

If it pleases you to imagine such things, by all means imagine them. Just don't confuse them with things that exist in nature ie are objectively real.

If one does not seek the understanding of change, does one really have the desire to Discover what is and how and why things are? Actions speak louder than mere words.

If one does not have a working knowledge of science then one lacks the essential mental equipment to explore, describe and try to explain nature. Instead one explains such things as being done by the fairies (or goblins, or vampires, or as the case may be).

If you negate everything except this physical world as a possibility, you do not seek truth because you are not open to all possibilities.

I'm open to all possibilities. But I have a simple objective test to tell me which possibilities might result in accurate statements about reality, and which possibilities exist only as concepts / notions / things imagined.

And I, unlike you, also have an objective test for truth.

Thus I endeavor to enjoy imaginings without drowning in them.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Why would Allah need to forgive or be merciful in the first place? Would not Allah already know what you are going to do?

G-d is not a person .. not a soul, as we are.
Yes, of course G-d knows what we are going to do .. He is omniscient.

G-d's forgiveness is a concept that reflects the state of our own souls .. G-d is in need
of nothing at all .. it is we who are in need.

Is religion really teaching only goodness? Religion must find something wrong with you so they can be the fix. They will tell you they come from God, yet doesn't their actions and choices prove otherwise?

We are all imperfect individuals, regardless of our claimed creed.

God's system works on free choices. I say make them freely..

A person with experience, knows that G-d is the Most Wise, and will live their life accordingly.

 

[Nakosis]

I would say he is mistaken or the person quoting him is mistaken. We are all Spiritual beings in our true natures. We are all Eternal.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

If/when you see God for yourself, then you will know the truth.

 

[Bird123]

In other words, it has no other existence than as conceptual / imaginary.



You have not the slightest support for that claim ─ not a single authenticated instance anywhere.

If it pleases you to imagine such things, by all means imagine them. Just don't confuse them with things that exist in nature ie are objectively real.


If one does not have a working knowledge of science then one lacks the essential mental equipment to explore, describe and try to explain nature. Instead one explains such things as being done by the fairies (or goblins, or vampires, or as the case may be).


I'm open to all possibilities. But I have a simple objective test to tell me which possibilities might result in accurate statements about reality, and which possibilities exist only as concepts / notions / things imagined.

And I, unlike you, also have an objective test for truth.

Thus I endeavor to enjoy imaginings without drowning in them.

Existence is not conceptual or imaginary. Who you really are is not physical. You insisting everything is physical will not lead you to the truth. Go ahead and choose to hold onto your beliefs. There will come a time when you will realize there is so much more.

There are things that exist that can not be imagined. One does not have the capabilities.

The water is waiting in the desert. One must first want to seek it.

If I were to agree with what you say then you are saying God does not exist that I imagined it all. If that is true, I am also imagining you. How should I classify you: A Fairy, A Goblin, or a Vampire? I have spent an awful lot of time writing replies. Are you sure you don't exist?

God exists too regardless of how badly you do not want God to exist. God is much more than conceptual or imaginary. God is actually Someone just like you or I. On the other hand, we both are a bit lacking in capabilities.

You will see ,in time ,regardless of any of your beliefs

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

G-d is not a person .. not a soul, as we are.
Yes, of course G-d knows what we are going to do .. He is omniscient.

G-d's forgiveness is a concept that reflects the state of our own souls .. G-d is in need
of nothing at all .. it is we who are in need.


We are all imperfect individuals, regardless of our claimed creed.


A person with experience, knows that G-d is the Most Wise, and will live their life accordingly.

What are you in need of??? What do you think God is doing with this world and people? With your answer explain why and for what reason God is doing these things.

God is a Spiritual Being. We are also Spiritual beings. That is how we are in God's image. That is why we are Eternal just like God. Do you even know who you are?

If God knows all, why would God create imperfect people? Why would God create people needing to ask forgiveness? You speak of Hell. Why would God create someone to go to Hell? Why would God create Hell knowing anyone would go there? By your definition, would that not make God a Monster???

Yes, God is Most Wise. On the other hand, it isn't God telling you how to live or what choices to make. If God were to intimidate a person's choices in any way, that would defeat the system God already has in place. If a person tells you God sent them with messages or a way to live, they do not know God at all. That's mankind talking. You can notice mankind through all the petty things mankind holds so dear, like trying to control, intimidate, coerce, or manipulate your choices. Each will decide for themselves which are the best choices.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[blü 2]

Existence is not conceptual or imaginary.

Real things exist in reality, are found in the world external to the self. Notions, ideas, concepts, imaginings, dreams, visions, whatever are not real\ in the sense of existing out there in reality. In each case they're particular brain states and processes of an individual brain.

God never appears, never says, never does, answers prayers at a rate indistinguishable from the rate at which life or chance answers them. The only manner in which God exists is as a concept / thing imagined in an individual brain. That's why you can't show me a photo of [him]

Who you really are is not physical.

Who I really am is an example of a male H sap sap, entirely physical, entirely biochemical / bioelectrical.

What evidence (as distinct from assertion) do you offer that contradicts me?

If I were to agree with what you say then you are saying God does not exist that I imagined it all. If that is true, I am also imagining you. How should I classify you: A Fairy, A Goblin, or a Vampire? I have spent an awful lot of time writing replies. Are you sure you don't exist?

You say you're not encased in your physical form, so tell me ─ what is the implement presently resting on the front right corner of the support that holds up my computer screen?

God is much more than conceptual or imaginary. God is actually Someone just like you or I.

Then just download the photo, the video, your interview with [him]. You're saying nothing imaginary / purely conceptual is involved, so just do it.

 

[muhammad_isa]

What are you in need of???

Are you trying to tell me that mankind has no needs? Knows it all? Doesn't falter?
Our souls are fragile .. we can ruin them very easily, but the road to success is narrow.

What do you think God is doing with this world and people? With your answer explain why and for what reason God is doing these things.

..you'll have to be more specific..

God is a Spiritual Being. We are also Spiritual beings. That is how we are in God's image..

Agreed upon.

That is why we are Eternal just like God..

Agreed upon.

If God knows all, why would God create imperfect people?

..well, G-d knows all

Why would God create people needing to ask forgiveness?

It is the nature of our souls .. in order to go forward, we need to "unload" our sins..
..get rid of that nasty stain.

You speak of Hell. Why would God create someone to go to Hell?

G-d wishes all souls to be successful .. but He knows that some won't be.
Some souls willfully rebel .. satan being a prime example.

Why would God create Hell knowing anyone would go there? By your definition, would that not make God a Monster???

No, not at all .. that would only be true, if He did not warn us beforehand.

Yes, God is Most Wise. On the other hand, it isn't God telling you how to live or what choices to make..

G-d does not force us to only do deeds that are good for our souls.
He has created us independent, for reasons best known to Him.
..we can imagine what they might be..

However, G-d has not left us without guidance i.e. Bible/Qur'an

..If a person tells you God sent them with messages or a way to live, they do not know God at all. That's mankind talking..

No .. that is just you talking..