Trailblazer
Veteran Member
and what you say is just what you say.That's just what you say.
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
and what you say is just what you say.That's just what you say.
As you keep insisting, that is just your opinion.and what you say is just what you say.
It is what you said since you posted it here.As you keep insisting, that is just your opinion.
Well, we can agree it's an old document. But whether it's simply inaccurate, or seriously inaccurate, well, there we may differ. For example, there is still no archaeological evidence for the Exodus, no Pharaoh identified, no evidence or even hints in Egypt, so the major question is still whether it's history in any sense at all.Mmm .. but we don't all interpret it in the same light .. it's only words on a page.
Of course .. but I believe it is basically true, but inaccurate .. it is an old document.
What is argumentative about it?It is what you said since you posted it here.
Is there a reason you feel a need to be argumentative? That must get really tiring.
It is argumentative because you are arguing with me.What is argumentative about it?
It is argumentative because you are arguing with me.
I could say the same thing about you.
As usual, you completely missed my point.Um. You already said it in #1,146. Are you drunk?
Yup. I am the gander.My point was that what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
Well, not supposed to.Baha'is do not drink alcohol.
I cannot speak for other Baha'is but I never drink alcohol.Well, not supposed to.
I can imagine why people want to do things that disinterest me.I cannot speak for other Baha'is but I never drink alcohol.
I never had any desire to drink alcohol and I cannot imagine why anyone would want to.
Good point. I can imagine that too, although I cannot imagine wanting to do those things.I can imagine why people want to do things that disinterest me.
For me it's usually taste. There are so many tasty spirits, and combinations of spirits out there. I am trying to approximate Chartreuse right now. It's so good, but it is expensive and hard to get. Sometimes it's for relaxation. And sometimes for fun.Good point. I can imagine that too, although I cannot imagine wanting to do those things.
I can remember when I was a teenager, before I was a Baha'i, I never liked the taste of alcohol. I tried it a few times to be social with my friends but I did not like being drunk. Of course people can drink for relaxation or fun and not drink to get drunk and there are alcoholic drinks that are tasty.For me it's usually taste. There are so many tasty spirits, and combinations of spirits out there. I am trying to approximate Chartreuse right now. It's so good, but it is expensive and hard to get. Sometimes it's for relaxation. And sometimes for fun.
I was lukewarm towards alcohol till my late 20s, when I began developing a taste for bitter things like radicchio, rapini, beer and dark chocolate. After that I discovered that I like scotch during a week in Edinburgh. We went to a cocktail class this afternoon where they used alcohols from a local distillery that incorporates local flora. So good!I can remember when I was a teenager, before I was a Baha'i, I never liked the taste of alcohol. I tried it a few times to be social with my friends but I did not like being drunk. Of course people can drink for relaxation or fun and not drink to get drunk and there are alcoholic drinks that are tasty.
None seem to like the one from Isaiah 45 (below) that says God is the source of darkness and evil, so it generally takes somebody like me who doesn't consider any of it authoritative to point out the contradiction.
Isaiah 45:7Anyway, do you have anything to say about, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil"? The believers job it to concoct some answer that tries to make that say something else, because he has generally rejected the idea a priori as an act of faith, so of course it doesn't mean what it says. Since the skeptic has no such need, he doesn't work that semantic magic on such comments to make them say what they don't say.
Yes, prophets and messengers tell us to honor God but that is not what I cited from Baha'u'llah.The text you provided was Baha'u'llah instructions on how to honor God. That's what all prophets, messengers and gurus claiming to speak for a god do, which is different from what Buddha or a contemporary atheistic humanist would teach because the latter isn't saying that a god told him to tell you how to be pious (scrupulously observant of a god's instructions).
The 'updated' message of the Baha'i Faith is that science is just as important for humanity to progress as is religion.Yes, I know. That was part of my argument about the lack of relevance of even updated messages. That's information man needed to know and take seriously. Imagine how helpful such a message would have been if people believed it came from a god and not just man and his science, which many don't trust.
Religion does not have to address climate change since scientists are perfectly capable of figuring that out.Why not if that religion is getting messages from gods? You don't seem to realize that you're making the case that these messages are about religion, which offers no answers about climate change or anything else except how to please God as the world goes on cooking.
The message of Baha'u'llah is much more than instructions on loving God and one another. That was my point.I disagree. You provided excerpts. Yes, this is an updated message, but it's still instructions on loving God and one another, just not called that explicitly.
All these principles are certainly not in the American Constitution.Remove the third and fourth, and it's basically a humanist position derived from the humanist sensibilities of the Enlightenment that went into writing the American Constitution a century earlier and now called God's will:
1 The oneness of humanity.
2 The independent investigation of truth.
3 The common foundation of all religions.
4 The essential harmony of science and religion.
5 The equality of men and women.
6 The elimination of prejudice of all kinds.
7 Universal peace upheld by a world federation of nations.
The Baha'i hold that there are writings that are unquestionably true.Bahá’ís reject the notion that there is an inherent conflict between science and religion, a notion that became prevalent in intellectual discourse at a time when the very conception of each system of knowledge was far from adequate.
That is correct. We believe that the Writings of the central figures of our Faith are true.The Baha'i hold that there are writings that are unquestionably true.