What does it take to get to Heaven?

[rsd]

This is one of my favorite little religious stories of all time :


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The old monk sat by the side of the road. With his eyes closed, his legs crossed and his hands folded in his lap, he sat. In deep meditation, he sat.

Suddenly his zazen was interrupted by the harsh and demanding voice of a samurai warrior. "Old man! Teach me about heaven and hell!"

At first, as though he had not heard, there was no perceptible response from the monk. But gradually he began to open his eyes, the faintest hint of a smile playing around the corners of his mouth as the samurai stood there, waiting impatiently, growing more and more agitated with each passing second.

"You wish to know the secrets of heaven and hell?" replied the monk at last. "You who are so unkempt. You whose hands and feet are covered with dirt. You whose hair is uncombed, whose breath is foul, whose sword is all rusty and neglected. You who are ugly and whose mother dresses you funny. You would ask me of heaven and hell?"

The samurai uttered a vile curse. He drew his sword and raised it high above his head. His face turned to crimson and the veins on his neck stood out in bold relief as he prepared to sever the monk's head from its shoulders.

"That is hell," said the old monk gently, just as the sword began its descent. In that fraction of a second, the samurai was overcome with amazement, awe, compassion and love for this gentle being who had dared to risk his very life to give him such a teaching. He stopped his sword in mid-flight and his eyes filled with grateful tears.

"And that," said the monk, "is heaven."

Nice!

 

[Katzpur]

Yaddoe,

I'm probably not as well read on LDS theology as I ought to be so I would like to ask you and other Mormons here a simple question: do you believe that there is any such place as "Hell"? (I'm referring to the Protestant doctrine of "Hell", which is the abode of the wicked, a place of eternal torment for the damned, including Satan and his wicked servants for those who don't know what I mean)

We don't really believe in "Hell" as a place of eternal torment. We don't believe that the instant a person dies he goes either to Heaven or to Hell. We believe instead that that the spirit leaves the physical body at death and awaits the resurrection in the Spirit World. Those who believe in Christ and have lived essentially righteous lives will experience the Spirit World as a paradise. The unrepentant wicked who die without a faith in Jesus Christ will experience the Spirit World as hell, as a place where they suffer the torment and anguish associated with their sins. The spirits of those in this place, this "hell," can be released from it upon repentance and their acceptance of Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice. We believe in an essentially universal reconciliation with God, and that virtually everyone who has ever lived will ultimately receive at least some degree of God's glory in Heaven. Satan and his angels, on the other hand, will not. They will eventually be cast into what we call "Outer Darkness." It is a place completely void of God's glory and His love.

 

[Katzpur]

In Mormonism it isn't that simple and you know it. You have to go through LDS temples in order to learn certain things to gain access to heaven.

When did they change the requirements?

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

We don't really believe in "Hell" as a place of eternal torment. We don't believe that the instant a person dies he goes either to Heaven or to Hell. We believe instead that that the spirit leaves the physical body at death and awaits the resurrection in the Spirit World. Those who believe in Christ and have lived essentially righteous lives will experience the Spirit World as a paradise. The unrepentant wicked who die without a faith in Jesus Christ will experience the Spirit World as hell, as a place where they suffer the torment and anguish associated with their sins. The spirits of those in this place, this "hell," can be released from it upon repentance and their acceptance of Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice. We believe in an essentially universal reconciliation with God, and that virtually everyone who has ever lived will ultimately receive at least some degree of God's glory in Heaven. Satan and his angels, on the other hand, will not. They will eventually be cast into what we call "Outer Darkness." It is a place completely void of God's glory and His love.

Beautifully stated.

 

[Oneatatime]

In Mormonism it isn't that simple and you know it. You have to go through LDS temples in order to learn certain things to gain access to heaven.

Indeed.

You need to know the account where to deposit regular payments to ensure that they approve your entry into heaven.

 

[Renji]

Follow what Jesus said: Love God above all things (listening and acting the Word of God) and love your neighbor as you love yourself (that includes not doing anything that will harm or offend other people and doing things that are "good", helpful to others).Also, carry your own "cross" and follow the footsteps of Christ, in accordance to the will of the Father (doing your obligations as a Christian with all your best, humility and with all your heart).

 

[work in progress]

I don't appreciate the carrot and stick approach....heaven if you go along with our message, hell if you reject it. Every salvation doctrine that applies conditions of having correct beliefs is totally immoral, because there are so many conflicting doctrines of salvation, making it is impossible for any religion to "save" more than a fraction of the people.

The problem of "what about the good heathens" is why I started questioning the fundamentalism I was raised in, and left home at 16 to leave that church and live my own life. The good news is we have no eternal souls to worry about in the first place, so we can concentrate on living right in the here and now.

 

[religion99]

According to Jainism , Vegetarianism is the minimum requirement irrespective of your faith. So according to Jainism , A meat-eating Jain most likely will go to Hell and A Vegetarian Non-Jain may go to Heaven.

 

[rusra02]

I believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

I believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are:
first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ;
second, Repentance;
third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins by one holding the proper priesthood authority;
fourth, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost through the laying on of hands again by someone holding the proper priesthood authority,
and fifth, enduring to the end.

Firstly, not all people who are saved will go to heaven. Jesus said 'Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth." (Matthew 5:5)
Faith in Jesus is required, but faith in the One who sent Jesus is also required. (John 3:16, John 14:1)
One must practice the truth faith. Jesus warned at Matthew 7:13,14 "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it."
In addition to baptism, one must 'observe all the things I [Christ] have commanded you.' (Matthew 28:20) Only one faith is truly observing or obeying all that Christ commanded. For example, most religions are willing to slaughter their fellowman and even their fellow worshippers at the command of political rulers. Jesus said "
By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves." You cannot successfully claim you love someone while trying to kill them. (1 John 3:11,12)

 

[Katzpur]

Indeed.

You need to know the account where to deposit regular payments to ensure that they approve your entry into heaven.

You are so full of it. Bigotry and hate, I mean.

 

[zomg]

When did they change the requirements?

Are you suggesting that there is no need to know the tokens and signs in order to get into heaven?

 

[zomg]

You are so full of it. Bigotry and hate, I mean.

There is some truth to what he said.

To get into heaven you need to go through a Mormon temple. To go through a Mormon temple you need to pay tithing. Therefore, if you don't give the LDS church money you don't go through the temple which means no heaven.

Don't tell me this isn't true. I was denied a temple recommend because I was not paying tithing.

 

[Katzpur]

Are you suggesting that there is no need to know the tokens and signs in order to get into heaven?

Absolutely. Heaven is comprised of three degrees of glory. We're not talking about the Celestial Kingdom; we're talking about Heaven. Period. As I said in my first response on this thread, the only thing a person needs to do to get into Heaven is be born and not commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. That was a 100% honest answer. If Yaddoe's question was, "What does it take to get to the Celestial Kingdom?" my answer would have been different.

 

[Katzpur]

To get into heaven you need to go through a Mormon temple. To go through a Mormon temple you need to pay tithing. Therefore, if you don't give the LDS church money you don't go through the temple which means no heaven.

That's not true and you know it isn't.

Don't tell me this isn't true. I was denied a temple recommend because I was not paying tithing.

Well surprise, surprise. And you actually went in for a temple recommend interview thinking they weren't going to ask this question?

 

[zomg]

Absolutely. Heaven is comprised of three degrees of glory. We're not talking about the Celestial Kingdom; we're talking about Heaven. Period. As I said in my first response on this thread, the only thing a person needs to do to get into Heaven is be born and not commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. That was a 100% honest answer. If Yaddoe's question was, "What does it take to get to the Celestial Kingdom?" my answer would have been different.

I see. I assume when a Mormon says "heaven" they mean "Celestial Kingdom" or the place where God will be. When a person who is not versed in Mormonese hears "heaven" they most likely think it means being with God. Unless you go through the temple you won't go to where a Christian thinks heaven would be.

Unless a person goes through the temple they will only be able to live with Jesus. Not God. Big difference.

 

[zomg]

That's not true and you know it isn't.

Yes, it is. Seeing as how our definition of "heaven" isn't the same what I said is 100% truth. To be with God a person much give the LDS church money.

Well surprise, surprise. And you actually went in for a temple recommend interview thinking they weren't going to ask this question?

Heh. I don't know what I was thinking. I'd read online of bishops who had taken mercy on people under certain situations. My wife was ill and had just lost her fifth job in two years. We were barely getting by and I had to pay the bills in order for us to live and eat. It had been three months since I gave money when I went in for a renewal. I figured after several years of faithful paying I would be okay.

I was wrong

 

[work in progress]

Yes, it is. Seeing as how our definition of "heaven" isn't the same what I said is 100% truth. To be with God a person much give the LDS church money.


Heh. I don't know what I was thinking. I'd read online of bishops who had taken mercy on people under certain situations. My wife was ill and had just lost her fifth job in two years. We were barely getting by and I had to pay the bills in order for us to live and eat. It had been three months since I gave money when I went in for a renewal. I figured after several years of faithful paying I would be okay.

I was wrong

I don't mean to interrupt, but to an outsider, the most successful religions which have the nicest new churches are the ones who are in the business of selling immortality to their adherents. People seem to be willing to part with large sums of money to support churches and clerics that offer the promise, along with those who sell paradise through books and television. There's a lot more money to be made in promising paradise, than there is in teaching, but not promising a better life to people.

 

[zomg]

I don't mean to interrupt, but to an outsider, the most successful religions which have the nicest new churches are the ones who are in the business of selling immortality to their adherents. People seem to be willing to part with large sums of money to support churches and clerics that offer the promise, along with those who sell paradise through books and television. There's a lot more money to be made in promising paradise, than there is in teaching, but not promising a better life to people.

I agree. This is one problem I have with tithing. In LDS temples Satan says, "you can buy anything in this world with money". I guess he was right.

In the D and C where tithing is talked about (correct me if I'm wrong, haven't read it in a while) God tells Joseph Smith that the people should pay ten percent of their "surplus". So after taking care of what needed to be done, whatever money was left over should go to tithing.

Somewhere down the line it seems the LDS church twisted that to mean ten percent of your income. I literally had no money left as a surplus - food, hospital bills, medicine, doctor bills, gas, rent, etc took all of it away.

 

[Katzpur]

I see. I assume when a Mormon says "heaven" they mean "Celestial Kingdom" or the place where God will be.

And I assume that when a Mormon says "Heaven," he means "Heaven."

When a person who is not versed in Mormonese hears "heaven" they most likely think it means being with God. Unless you go through the temple you won't go to where a Christian thinks heaven would be.

Most Christians have no concept of a Heaven comprised of three degrees of glory. If you tell "a person not versed in Mormonese" that he's not going to Heaven, what do you think it's going to mean to him? Probably that he's going spend eternity buring in Hell. If you think that's an honest way to represent Mormon doctrine, I feel sorry for you. If you're going to tell a non-LDS Christian that he's not going to Heven when he dies, where are you going to tell him he's going?

Unless a person goes through the temple they will only be able to live with Jesus. Not God. Big difference.

Like that would be a real turn-off to most people? They would "only" get to spend eternity in the presence of Jesus Chrst (who, after all is part of the same indivisible essence as His Father). Damn, what a bummer!

 

[work in progress]

I agree. This is one problem I have with tithing. In LDS temples Satan says, "you can buy anything in this world with money". I guess he was right.

In the D and C where tithing is talked about (correct me if I'm wrong, haven't read it in a while) God tells Joseph Smith that the people should pay ten percent of their "surplus". So after taking care of what needed to be done, whatever money was left over should go to tithing.

Somewhere down the line it seems the LDS church twisted that to mean ten percent of your income. I literally had no money left as a surplus - food, hospital bills, medicine, doctor bills, gas, rent, etc took all of it away.

I wasn't aware of how tithing found its way into the LDS Church, but I am aware of the sudden popularity of tithing in newer fundamentalist and evangelical churches. What's ironic is that a lot of them follow the traditional Protestant and Catholic view of Replacement Theology - where the laws of the Old Covenant have been abolished; yet they still go back and find a way to apply the funding arrangement of the Temple in Jerusalem for their churches (and even TV ministries) today. And some even go far as to demand that their church members tithe after-tax earnings, not gross income....so they don't even get to benefit personally from the charitable tax refund! No doubt, any religion that is able to earn large sums of money will attract those looking to cash in and make a lucrative living.