What does it take to get to Heaven?

[Katzpur]

what is my agenda exactly?
i am here to debate... if i posit an argument that you refuse to address i am only going to think you cannot address it...

Your thinking something doesn't make it so, waitasec. Maybe I really just don't like you and am sick of making the effort to be civil. Do I need to dumb it down any more than that?

 

[waitasec]

Your thinking something doesn't make it so, waitasec. Maybe I really just don't like you and am sick of making the effort to be civil. Do I need to dumb it down any more than that?

i am only addressing the idea of the post not the person. if you can find any posts i have made that demeaned YOU i would love to see it.

 

[InChrist]

Exactly. Therefore, anyone who believes they are guided by it while not honoring the Sabbath for example is not being guided. Jesus did not do away with the Sabbath any more than he did away with rule against Occult practices, he merely showed what was allowed on the Sabbath in emergency situations as opposed to the false Pharisee regulations.

Do you believe Isaiah 66 takes place the crucifixion?

I think we are now getting to the heart of the matter of what I perceive you believe it means to be a good person who will reach heaven. But my percepts can be wrong so I will ask for more understanding, do you believe that keeping the Sabbath is the main proof that you or anyone is a good, law-keeping person who is obeying Christ and will get to heaven? Is avoiding pork and other unclean foods also a close second proof?

The way your question concerning Isaiah 66 was phrased I didn’t quite understand it. But I’ll try to answer what I think you are asking.

I don’t really think Isaiah 66 is about the crucifixion. I think it is prophetic about the birth of Israel again as a nation, which happened in 1948. It show God’s displeasure with vain idolatrous and ritualistic sacrifices were so much a part of Israel’s history, but God will forgive, cleanse, and restore Israel and idolatry will removed from the earth. All the nations will be blessed and know the Glory of the LORD through Israel in the future when He rules from Jerusalem.

 

[Katzpur]

i am only addressing the idea of the post not the person. if you can find any posts i have made that demeaned YOU i would love to see it.

waitasec, I'm going to save you some time from here on out. You are now officially on "ignore" status. This means that there is really no point in your directing any comments to me in the future, since I won't be seeing them any more. You have the distinction of being the third individual on this forum to have attained this status in six and a half years. In other words, it takes a real special person to qualify. You should feel so proud of yourself. Bye now!

 

[waitasec]

waitasec, I'm going to save you some time from here on out. You are now officially on "ignore" status. This means that there is really no point in your directing any comments to me in the future, since I won't be seeing them any more. You have the distinction of being the third individual on this forum to have attained this status in six and a half years. In other words, it takes a real special person to qualify. You should feel so proud of yourself. Bye now!

so i guess you can't support your claim that i have an agenda...
ignore away :ignore:
looks like you've reached the fulfillment of your mental development
impressive.

 

[Shermana]

I think we are now getting to the heart of the matter of what I perceive you believe it means to be a good person who will reach heaven. But my percepts can be wrong so I will ask for more understanding, do you believe that keeping the Sabbath is the main proof that you or anyone is a good, law-keeping person who is obeying Christ and will get to heaven? Is avoiding pork and other unclean foods also a close second proof?

The way your question concerning Isaiah 66 was phrased I didn’t quite understand it. But I’ll try to answer what I think you are asking.

I don’t really think Isaiah 66 is about the crucifixion. I think it is prophetic about the birth of Israel again as a nation, which happened in 1948. It show God’s displeasure with vain idolatrous and ritualistic sacrifices were so much a part of Israel’s history, but God will forgive, cleanse, and restore Israel and idolatry will removed from the earth. All the nations will be blessed and know the Glory of the LORD through Israel in the future when He rules from Jerusalem.

Excuse me I meant to say AFTER the crucifixion:

Isaiah 66 says those who eat swine's flesh will be left to die.

New Living Translation (©2007)
17"Those who 'consecrate' and 'purify' themselves in a sacred garden with its idol in the center--feasting on pork and rats and other detestable meats--will come to a terrible end," says the LORD.

Now I assume you will say it only applies to people who eat pork while in sacred gardens with idols, and that's it okay to eat swine's flesh as long as you're not in a sacred garden with idols or something.

The Law applies after Jesus' death, or cross Isaiah 66 out.

New Living Translation (©2007)
24:And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies of those who have rebelled against me. For the worms that devour them will never die, and the fire that burns them will never go out. All who pass by will view them with utter horror."

Those who rebel against the Law and its practices, all of them, are those who rebel against the Father, no matter how you try to spin it, that's what the author intended to say.

The only logical conclusion to make is that those who disobey the Law are the ones who will not go to Heaven, if you actually take into account what Jesus says and not what your doctrinal views say.

 

[sojourner]

And no repentance necessary?

I can certainly see why this brand of "Christianity" is appealing to murderers, adulterers, thieves, defrauders, and liars.

Why does Jesus say its better to drown yourself than "offend" (not "Put a stumbling block before" but "offend") a little one?

I didn't say that, now, did I?!

 

[sojourner]

Exactly. Therefore, anyone who believes they are guided by it while not honoring the Sabbath for example is not being guided. Jesus did not do away with the Sabbath any more than he did away with rule against Occult practices, he merely showed what was allowed on the Sabbath in emergency situations as opposed to the false Pharisee regulations.

Do you believe Isaiah 66 takes place the crucifixion?

That may be stretching the limits of exegetical credulity. Especially since, when the religious authorities complained, he said, "Humanity was not made for the Sabbath..."

 

[sojourner]

i thought the word christian originated in the bible

Antioch. the Bible tells us that.

 

[sojourner]

A Space Shuttle?

All I know is, "you can't get to heaven on roller skates, 'cause you'll roll right by them pearly gates..."

 

[sojourner]

And would they be there if they didn't repent? Apparently repentance and bearing the earthly consequences is a conditional.

PS You don't know if Paul went to Heaven or not.

Only because this isn't about rewards, it's about relationships. It's not because it's some hierarchical imposition.

 

[smidjit]

Okay then, I agree. Even at our best behavior, we fall way below the standard. We are expected to obey Christ's commandments, but our obedience would be worth absolutely nothing without His sacrifice. None of us would get to heaven on our own merits. We all need Him to atone for our sins. All I was really saying is that, as Christians, we're expected to do more than just talk the talk. We're expected to walk the walk -- to the best of our ability. I have found that the gospel of Jesus Christ inspires me to be a better person. Isn't that what He'd want?

I believe our main purpose as believers is to influence the world for Christ, and yes..... actions speak louder than words. Many people are turned off to Christianity because they feel most Christians are hypocrites. That is indeed because of immoral living. I agree with you, I just wanted to be clear that obedience is the means to sanctification, but has nothing to do with salvation.

 

[Katzpur]

I believe our main purpose as believers is to influence the world for Christ, and yes..... actions speak louder than words. Many people are turned off to Christianity because they feel most Christians are hypocrites. That is indeed because of immoral living. I agree with you, I just wanted to be clear that obedience is the means to sanctification, but has nothing to do with salvation.

I agree completely.

 

[smidjit]

And would they be there if they didn't repent? Apparently repentance and bearing the earthly consequences is a conditional.

PS You don't know if Paul went to Heaven or not.

Lev17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

This is the reason we go to heaven. The atonement thru a blood sacrifice of a lamb without spot and blemish.

1st Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Christ shed his blood and placed it upon the door posts of my heart. When the angel of death passes by on judgment day, I will be spared.....

Ex 12:13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.

 

[waitasec]

I believe our main purpose as believers is to influence the world for Christ, and yes..... actions speak louder than words. Many people are turned off to Christianity because they feel most Christians are hypocrites. That is indeed because of immoral living. I agree with you, I just wanted to be clear that obedience is the means to sanctification, but has nothing to do with salvation.

yes it does...and in order to get to heaven it seems as though some believers think their actions of controlling other people by infringing on their inalienable rights according to their religious beliefs, pretty much makes life on earth a living hell for those who don't adhere to such beliefs. interesting huh. :

 

[smidjit]

yes it does...and in order to get to heaven it seems as though some believers think their actions of controlling other people by infringing on their inalienable rights according to their religious beliefs, pretty much makes life on earth a living hell for those who don't adhere to such beliefs. interesting huh. :

I live by the law of love. That rule is simply to do nothing that might bring any form of harm to you and others. I only ask that you show mutual consideration my way. Is that infringing on your rights?


Romans13:10 Love never wrongs his neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilment of the Law.

 

[Shermana]

What about beasts? Are beasts your neighbors? Does Leviticus 18:23 apply? Or does it only apply if your neighbor owns the animal?

 

[smidjit]

What about beasts? Are beasts your neighbors? Does Leviticus 18:23 apply? Or does it only apply if your neighbor owns the animal?

I think the verse forbids me to have sex with animals. I feel like my rights have been violated, but I suppose I can abstain.

 

[waitasec]

I live by the law of love. That rule is simply to do nothing that might bring any form of harm to you and others. I only ask that you show mutual consideration my way. Is that infringing on your rights?


Romans13:10 Love never wrongs his neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilment of the Law.

define love...
luke 6 lays love out pretty clearly...

30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

do you like being discriminated against? didn't think so.

or if you prefer paul over jesus 1 cor 13:4-7 lays it out pretty nicely too

if you voted against same sex marriages then you are using your religious beliefs to justify discrimination...
and btw, same sex marriages doesn't harm anyone

if you believe birthcontrol is a form of murder then your are imposing your religious beliefs on someone else
birth control doesn't hurt anyone

if you suggest that ID is science you are imposing your religious beliefs on
the quality of my sons education...

if you vote against euthanasia then you are imposing your religious beliefs on my right to die a dignified peaceful death

when you love you don't control others unless your love is based on insecurity and we all know that is self defeating
love always protects inalienable rights, always trusts in people, always hopes in people, always perseveres...on an ongoing basis.

live and let live.

do you trust your god when you follow his rules or do you need to control others which is ultimately counter productive?

 

[Shades-o-Blue]

do you trust your god when you follow his rules or do you need to control others which is ultimately counter productive?

I choose A) I trust my God and love to follow His rules!