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What does it take to get to Heaven?

wayward_teen

wayward_teen

Beautiful Disaster
I don't believe in heaven.
If there was one, I would only want to be there for doing good deeds, not having blind faith.
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
wayward_teen said:
I don't believe in heaven.
If there was one, I would only want to be there for doing good deeds, not having blind faith.
Click to expand...
The only thing is, you can't do enough good deeds. Here's an analogy that may help you see why...

You're a teenager, so you go to school and know all about grades and how your GPA is calculated. Let's say you wanted to get into a particular university, but the only way you would qualify would be to be admitted would be to complete high school with a 4.0 GPA. Well, let's say you start out pretty strong. In your first semester (or term or whatever you want to call it), you get all A's except for one class, in which you get an A-. Your GPA is now 3.894. Close, but not good enough. So, you resolve to never get anything other than an A again. By the time you graduate, you've managed to do that. You've got dozens and dozens of A's and just that one A- you got right at the start. So what's your GPA? It's 3.99999. It wouldn't matter how many more years you were to continue to go to school and how many more classes you were to take. Your GPA would NEVER be 4.0. And you would NEVER be admitted to the university you wanted to attend.

God does not look upon sin with "the least degree of allowance." That means that 3.99999 is not good enough to get you back to His presence. But, He has provided a way around your problem. He let His perfect Son, Jesus Christ, make up the difference, thereby making it possible for you to return to Him with a perfect score, so to speak. He expects your best, but He knows you can't do it alone. You are a fallible, finite being, and the only way you will be worthy to return to Him is by joining together with a perfect, infinite being. Because what's the sum of a finite, negative number (you) and an infinite, positive number (Christ)? It's an infinite, positive number. I don't know if that makes sense to you or not, but it's just my two cents worth...
 
Gjallarhorn

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
Katzpur said:
The only thing is, you can't do enough good deeds. Here's an analogy that may help you see why...

You're a teenager, so you go to school and know all about grades and how your GPA is calculated. Let's say you wanted to get into a particular university, but the only way you would qualify would be to be admitted would be to complete high school with a 4.0 GPA. Well, let's say you start out pretty strong. In your first semester (or term or whatever you want to call it), you get all A's except for one class, in which you get an A-. Your GPA is now 3.894. Close, but not good enough. So, you resolve to never get anything other than an A again. By the time you graduate, you've managed to do that. You've got dozens and dozens of A's and just that one A- you got right at the start. So what's your GPA? It's 3.99999. It wouldn't matter how many more years you were to continue to go to school and how many more classes you were to take. Your GPA would NEVER be 4.0. And you would NEVER be admitted to the university you wanted to attend.

God does not look upon sin with "the least degree of allowance." That means that 3.99999 is not good enough to get you back to His presence. But, He has provided a way around your problem. He let His perfect Son, Jesus Christ, make up the difference, thereby making it possible for you to return to Him with a perfect score, so to speak. He expects your best, but He knows you can't do it alone. You are a fallible, finite being, and the only way you will be worthy to return to Him is by joining together with a perfect, infinite being. Because what's the sum of a finite, negative number (you) and an infinite, positive number (Christ)? It's an infinite, positive number. I don't know if that makes sense to you or not, but it's just my two cents worth...
Click to expand...
Point of note: this infinite falling short was all orchestrated by God, having created Adam, Eve, and the tree in such a way as to get this end result.
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
wayward_teen said:
I don't believe in heaven.
If there was one, I would only want to be there for doing good deeds, not having blind faith.
Click to expand...

If you read James and the actual words of Jesus and don't listen to cherry picked readings of Paul, the NT, just like the OT, clearly paints a picture of works as the basis of your afterlife.


"I will reward each according to their works".

This idea that works have nothing to do with your salvation is from people who think Christians are allowed to fornicate, steal, lie, and worse. You can see why such an interpretation is so appealing to them. Even Paul says to "Continue to work out your own salvation".


Jesus says "STRIVE" ("work hard" in the NLT) for the Narrow gate. If you go by what Jesus says, you have to actually obey the the teachings and commandments to be saved. Why does Jesus tell his own disciples who already believe in him that its better to chop off their hands than use them to go to hell? Even if its just "Metaphorical" (which is the common response to such), are they still in danger of going to hell by doing something wrong? Of course.

Likewise, when James says that correcting your brothers covers a whole host of your own sins, this implies there's still work to do for your salvation.

I can easily see why this no-works all-faith salvation Theology is a major put off to most potential converts.
 
religion99

religion99

Active Member
According to Jainism , the 100% guarantee of getting only Human and Heaven lives ( ie no animal or hell lives ) for rest of your worldly existence is self-realization of your pure consciousness devoid of impurities of passions , attachments and aversion. This requires discriminatory knowledge between consciousness and impurities (passions , attachments and aversion). Once discrimination is achieved, leave impurities and gather consciousness. Even if duration of this self-realization is less than one second , YOU ARE PERFECTLY SET FOR REST OF YOUR WORLDLY EXISTENCE.
 
Me Myself

Me Myself

Back to my username
It takes:

-Compassionate heart
-Comprehensive mind
-Strong will power

For absolute certainty, better use the 3 of them and use them as much as you can. They tend to complement and nurture each other, so there.

Luck and blessings :D
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Gjallarhorn said:
Seems like a way of putting people in a position of infinite inferiority. Original sin was a cheap tactic for a divine being to pull.
Click to expand...
Oh, I see. Well, that would be a far cry from the way I see it, but you must understand that, as a Mormon, my take on the whole Fall of Adam is kind of different from the traditional Christian take on it. I believe that God created us in the first place with the idea in mind that we ultimately be able to become as He is. In Genesis 3:22, after Adam and Eve had eaten the forbidden fruit, the Lord God states, "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil." The Fall was an absolutely essential first step in this process of attaining our full potential. It was not until Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil that they were able to discern between these two opposites. And knowing the difference between good and evil is a prerequisite for becoming like God. In eating the forbidden fruit, Adam and Eve took the first step in the direction God knew they'd need to take in order to progress. You can think of it as a "cheap tactic." I think of it as an "inspired nudge."
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
IsmailaGodHasHeard said:
People get to heaven by repenting of all of their sins and accepting Jesus as their Friend, God, Lord, and Savior.
Click to expand...
I keep seeing you say essentially this same thing on various threads, and every time you post it, I ask the same question. Maybe if I post it enough times, you'll see it and answer it...

What about the millions of people who lived and died without ever having had the opportunity to even know about Jesus Christ, much less accept Him as their Friend, God, Lord and Savior? What do you believe their eternal destiny is going to be?
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
I believe that God created us in the first place with the idea in mind that we ultimately be able to become as He is. In Genesis 3:22, after Adam and Eve had eaten the forbidden fruit, the Lord God states, "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil."
Click to expand...

i like how some cherry pick the nice parts :rolleyes:


lets finish the rest of what god said shall we...

gen 3:22 "...He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
 
F

flouncing floo

Member
The idea that only those from a particular dogma of Christianity will get to heaven, if there is such a place, seems like a complete nonsense to me and not in the least bit credible.
 
BruceDLimber

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
>What does it take to get to Heaven?

It takes NOTHING WHATEVER if one adopts the proper attitude, given that Heaven and hell exist here and now as well as after death!

Peace,

Bruce
 
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