What evidence is there that the Koran is the word of God?

[no-body]

Muhammed (pbuh) has travelled only twice, one time he was 12 years old when he was with his uncle and he didn’t complete the journey with them but he returned while the convoy was still on their way and the other was when he was 25 years and he returned immediately after finishing his trade . As for mohammed being a merchant for some time he was sending people and he didn’t go by himself except for this time.

I doubt records are that exact even if he was a well known person. Whatever, the point is he spent a lot of time discussing a variety of things with people that could have inspired the Koran. Some people are natural poets and that explains the Koran to me.

 

[illykitty]

Try this
And lo before ye, Koala
Upon this tree stump is the wind.
Oh Kangaroo where are you?

Hint: the verses you need to produce are in Arabic. The English version of the Qu'ran isn't even close to the original in meaning and poetry.

 

[LaaIlahaIllAllah]

So the Hadiths that say of Satanic verses in 53:19-21. Can you please try and provide which hadith this was.

I think it was collected by at-Tabari, who collected all kinds of ahadeeth whether it they were weak authentic or fake, he did not check them, as he states himself that the reader should find out and that's what scholars did. It's not in Sahih Muslim or Bukhari for sure cause they checked the chains good and as I told you, Imam Bukhari recorded the real hadeeth of the event.

Which other Hadiths are fabricated?

I dunno.. I'm not a hadeeth scholar or someone who knows how to grade them. It is all a science, and too complicated for some newbi to start grading the ahadeeth how he feels like it. You need to know Arabic, you need to the biographies of EACH narrator in a chain allll the way back to the prophet (peace be upon him) and make sure they met one another and check whether the person was trustworthy, a liar, had bad memory, sharp memory,etc and in which part of his life was he like this... So much stuff you gotta study this with an Imam or someone knowdgeable in it.

Book 024, Number 5277:
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Angels do not accompany the travellers who have with them a dog and a bell.

Sahih Muslim Book 024 #5279, Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The bell is the musical instrument of the Satan.

Sahih Bukhari Book 1, Number 2:
Narrated 'Aisha:

(the mother of the faithful believers) Al-Harith bin Hisham asked Allah's Apostle "O Allah's Apostle! How is the Divine Inspiration revealed to you?" Allah's Apostle replied, "Sometimes it is (revealed) like the ringing of a bell, this form of Inspiration is the hardest of all and then this state passes ' off after I have grasped what is inspired. Sometimes the Angel comes in the form of a man and talks to me and I grasp whatever he says." 'Aisha added: Verily I saw the Prophet being inspired Divinely on a very cold day and noticed the Sweat dropping from his forehead (as the Inspiration was over).

This is what the Hadith says, the bell established as being the instrument of Satan as said by Muhammad himself, the bell makes a sound, that sound was these revelations to muhammad.

The thing is, you are making a connection when there actually is none. To make it short - there is no musical instrument or bell involved in the revelation hadeeth, I don't know how much plainer I can put it..

Then we have a fabricated Hadith, which says there is satanic verses.
This all ties in with the above hadiths, why was it considered a fabrication. If there are two hadiths alluding to Muhammad hearing bells and saying that bells are Satan instruments.

Last part of this was answered immediately above.

Why it is considered a fabrication, my description of hadeeth sciences might have helped alittle with this. For one thing, the text makes no sense because it says events happened in 10 minutes which actually happened over a period of 10+ years. Another, the chain of narration is totally off and fabricated meaning that some people just attributed random narrators to the prophet (peace be upon him) who have either never met him or never met each other. Another I'd that there is a Sahih (authentic) narration which tells usehat really happened, found in Sahih Bukhari. Its text makes sense and is in line with the historical timeline of events whiel fake one is totally off.. It also has a authentic chain of narration meaning all of the narrators are trustworthy and have met each other in their lives many more conditions are met with the authentic one which I dunno cause lime I said I'm not any type of scholar and the fake one prolly has more discrepancies which I do not know since that's not what I do.

Also, where are you getting "two hadiths of Muhammad (pbub) hearing bells"?

The fabricated hadeeth has nothing to do with bells at all.. Lol....

Second the other one, there was no actual bell involved either, as I mentioned before.

It just seems odd Allah starts in the name of Allah, its as if someone else is saying this.

I dunno, I don't find it strange that God starts the revelation off with "in the name of God".. Also check the reasons mentioned in post before this.

 

[FearGod]

It just seems odd Allah starts in the name of Allah, its as if someone else is saying this.

it seems that many are fooled with some sites which just try to find whatever to show
that Islam is a fake religion.

God sent the book which contain historical stories,facts,science,warnings,morals..etc
and he asked us to start reading his holy book by his holy name "in the name of allah,
the all merciful,the most merciful"

We also have to say such saying not only for reading the quran,but for doing any things
which we will just start,such as,before start eating,before slaughtering a sheep...etc.

if you are still confused,then let me hear from you

 

[beerisit]

Hint: the verses you need to produce are in Arabic. The English version of the Qu'ran isn't even close to the original in meaning and poetry.

If the Qu'ran is for all of mankind and for all of time then surely it's magnificence would be apparent in any language. But obviously that is beyond the author is it?

 

[beerisit]

it seems that many are fooled with some sites which just try to find whatever to show
that Islam is a fake religion.

God sent the book which contain historical stories,facts,science,warnings,morals..etc
and he asked us to start reading his holy book by his holy name "in the name of allah,
the all merciful,the most merciful"

We also have to say such saying not only for reading the quran,but for doing any things
which we will just start,such as,before start eating,before slaughtering a sheep...etc.

if you are still confused,then let me hear from you

Why are people who question religions especially Islam always accused of using hate sites for their arguments?

 

[keroghee]

I fail to see any literary merit or poetry in this

Verily We have given to you the abundance
So pray to your Lord and sacrifice
Indeed your enemy is the one who is cut off

The first line is either meaningless or you can make it mean absolutely anything, which makes it meaningless.
The second line is treating the reader like an idiot. I've just given you a meaningless line so pray to me.
The early polar expeditions were cut off, who are the enemy, why did you create enemies?
The passage is nonsensical.

First of all to make it clear that Qur’an is in Arabic, when for example Moses was sent to his people, they were great magicians so god sent him with a miracle of the same kind, once they have seen it they knew it’s not magic.
The same is here, Arabs before Islam showed a great superiority in literature. For example let’s say here today in any language there is 5-8 names to lion, they had at least 70 different names. One Arab is may insulted by another so he immediately Improvise a big and great poem to lampoon him and the other immediately improvise too another poem to lampoon him back. In fact back then there was no one preparing a poem in home as the way we know today, everything was improvised. The most holy place for them as an Arab was al-kabaa even before Islam and what they did, they mounted on its wall the 7 best poems of all time and they were written with gold and all of them were improvised. They memorized any text they’ve heard whether it was a speech or poem immediately after listening to it once.
Once the Qur’an came, it was a literary merit for them and they realized it and they took its text to some great Arabic language experts that failed to find one mistake in it. Not only that but at these times they wrote the Arabic characters without dots, for example in English there is the characters i and l if we took off the dots out of i it become l. In Arabic most characters was like this and they differentiate between different letters is by the meaning of the context they realized what letter is this, also another way was is to write down below the text that the first letter is dotted and the second is not and so on. So when they took this text to this great expert it was undotted of course, and they were amazed that even some words it can be read as dotted or undotted and it gave the same meaning. They said at the time it’s not poem, It’s not magic, it’s a miracle, it’s impossible. One man said I say we join him in his religion because even if Allah didn’t send Qur’an, a man that is in possession of such text will rule the whole Arabian Peninsula soon.
I said this only to show you the literary miracle in Qur’an, you only read a translated text it won’t be like the original, like reading a translated poem from English to Arabic.
And for the verses you quoted it say we have given you the abundance(kawthar in Arabic) it’s a name of a river in heaven, so pray for your lord and sacrifice, the enemy of yours is the one who is cut off because there was a man(abo lahab) who made a lot of fun that Muhammad is cut-off (has no boys children to carry his name) and that was a fault according to Arabs that time, but Allah says that his enemy will be cuff-off, and he had a lot of boys children that they started to die one after another in a period of time until they all died before their father.
But of course Qur’an has far more miracles than literary merit which I will mention later

 

[keroghee]

I doubt records are that exact even if he was a well known person. Whatever, the point is he spent a lot of time discussing a variety of things with people that could have inspired the Koran. Some people are natural poets and that explains the Koran to me.

when did he spent a lot of time discussing a variety of things ?? he didn't and the Qur'an is not a poem and it even doesn't follow poems rules. it was a Literary miracle.it's impossible that he was inspired by his people because its totally different than any other thing at that time

 

[beerisit]

First of all to make it clear that Qur’an is in Arabic, when for example Moses was sent to his people, they were great magicians so god sent him with a miracle of the same kind, once they have seen it they knew it’s not magic.
The same is here, Arabs before Islam showed a great superiority in literature. For example let’s say here today in any language there is 5-8 names to lion, they had at least 70 different names. One Arab is may insulted by another so he immediately Improvise a big and great poem to lampoon him and the other immediately improvise too another poem to lampoon him back. In fact back then there was no one preparing a poem in home as the way we know today, everything was improvised. The most holy place for them as an Arab was al-kabaa even before Islam and what they did, they mounted on its wall the 7 best poems of all time and they were written with gold and all of them were improvised. They memorized any text they’ve heard whether it was a speech or poem immediately after listening to it once.
Once the Qur’an came, it was a literary merit for them and they realized it and they took its text to some great Arabic language experts that failed to find one mistake in it. Not only that but at these times they wrote the Arabic characters without dots, for example in English there is the characters i and l if we took off the dots out of i it become l. In Arabic most characters was like this and they differentiate between different letters is by the meaning of the context they realized what letter is this, also another way was is to write down below the text that the first letter is dotted and the second is not and so on. So when they took this text to this great expert it was undotted of course, and they were amazed that even some words it can be read as dotted or undotted and it gave the same meaning. They said at the time it’s not poem, It’s not magic, it’s a miracle, it’s impossible. One man said I say we join him in his religion because even if Allah didn’t send Qur’an, a man that is in possession of such text will rule the whole Arabian Peninsula soon.
I said this only to show you the literary miracle in Qur’an, you only read a translated text it won’t be like the original, like reading a translated poem from English to Arabic.
And for the verses you quoted it say we have given you the abundance(kawthar in Arabic) it’s a name of a river in heaven, so pray for your lord and sacrifice, the enemy of yours is the one who is cut off because there was a man(abo lahab) who made a lot of fun that Muhammad is cut-off (has no boys children to carry his name) and that was a fault according to Arabs that time, but Allah says that his enemy will be cuff-off, and he had a lot of boys children that they started to die one after another in a period of time until they all died before their father.
But of course Qur’an has far more miracles than literary merit which I will mention later

Oh no. Am I meant to believe this? Moses people were great magicians. I think you need a new script writer.

 

[FearGod]

Why are people who question religions especially Islam always accused of using hate sites for their arguments?

i didnt say hate sites,but what i said is that some sites are trying to show islam as a fake religion.

i dont believe that there is something called "hate one religion",i just may not think
of one religion,but i will not hate the person nigther his religion.

For example,if you dont like banana,then why i should hate you,thats your own taste,
similar thing that if you like or hate god,then why i should hate you,that is your own choice,and it is up to you.

 

[beerisit]

You meant anti islamic sites ergo hate sites, try to be honest I'm sure Allah would want that.

 

[keroghee]

Oh no. Am I meant to believe this? Moses people were great magicians. I think you need a new script writer.

I said this only because to show you something, that if god ever sent a miracle, you would take it to the experts in this thing to know if it is truly possible. And that what happened to the greatest Arabic language experts in all history. But I don’t expect you to believe that Qur’an is god’s word just because Arabs in the 7th century saw it was miraculous. no one would have believed if this was the case.

But the solution to this problem is in the Qur’an itself, the best way is to examine the Qur’an itself, you know the Qur’an tells us : “We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth” [41:53]. So the Qur’an says that it will show us signs in the world, well let’s see.

Quran says “From both of them emerge pearl and coral” [55:22] i.e. both oceans and rivers. And this is something Arabs didn’t know (even non-Arabs) that you can get pearl and coral from rivers as well as seas but this is still not sufficient evidence, Muhammad may have said both because he has no reason to think rivers doesn’t contain pearl. But Qur’an says “And it is He who has released [simultaneously] the two seas, one fresh and sweet and one salty and bitter, and He placed between them a barrier and prohibiting partition” [25:53] also “He released the two seas, meeting [side by side]; Between them is a barrier [so] neither of them transgresses” [55:19-20] and modern science proved that wherever there is two seas meet they don’t mix, each will have different densities and different salinity levels but again Muhammad might have met someone that have tasted both seas and recorded this observation or it might be a piece of information that was known at the time but the Qur’an took credit of it being the most famous.

Qur’an also says “And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term ( appointed ) . That is the Decree of the All- Mighty, the All- Knowing” [36:38] how can an illiterate in the 7th century in the desert knows that the sun rotates in a fixed orbit? Perhaps this piece of information was known in one of the former great empires the roman or the Persians?

In Qur’an you find “Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe” [21:30] does this remind you of something? Oh yes! Big bang. But how does anybody could have known about big bang before the last 60 years?

You find also “Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke” [41:11] you know science has proved that the space is full of some kind of dust called cosmic dust they say it fills all in between stars and planets they say it consists of dust particles like you find it in homes but when they tried to take samples of this dust particles they said that it doesn’t look like dust at all, in fact, it looks more like SMOKE and more researches proved that the dust that spread around a supernova (a blowing up star) is actually smoke and that the universe was smoke in its initial stages.

All of this might be an evidence and it might be not. But if you chose this to be not sufficient evidence then you have to say why. Because this may be true and maybe not, maybe this isn’t in Qur’an and maybe this isn’t real scientific discoveries and maybe there is a third explanation which people couldn’t find it yet. So please if you could find it please tell me. No one wants to be on the wrong ideology and someone has to be right (which doesn’t have to be Muslims).

Muslims always claims to have strong logic and they are proud of it, so prove it wrong.

 

[FearGod]

I said this only because to show you something, that if god ever sent a miracle, you would take it to the experts in this thing to know if it is truly possible. And that what happened to the greatest Arabic language experts in all history. But I don’t expect you to believe that Qur’an is god’s word just because Arabs in the 7th century saw it was miraculous. no one would have believed if this was the case.

But the solution to this problem is in the Qur’an itself, the best way is to examine the Qur’an itself, you know the Qur’an tells us : “We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth” [41:53]. So the Qur’an says that it will show us signs in the world, well let’s see.

Quran says “From both of them emerge pearl and coral” [55:22] i.e. both oceans and rivers. And this is something Arabs didn’t know (even non-Arabs) that you can get pearl and coral from rivers as well as seas but this is still not sufficient evidence, Muhammad may have said both because he has no reason to think rivers doesn’t contain pearl. But Qur’an says “And it is He who has released [simultaneously] the two seas, one fresh and sweet and one salty and bitter, and He placed between them a barrier and prohibiting partition” [25:53] also “He released the two seas, meeting [side by side]; Between them is a barrier [so] neither of them transgresses” [55:19-20] and modern science proved that wherever there is two seas meet they don’t mix, each will have different densities and different salinity levels but again Muhammad might have met someone that have tasted both seas and recorded this observation or it might be a piece of information that was known at the time but the Qur’an took credit of it being the most famous.

Qur’an also says “And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term ( appointed ) . That is the Decree of the All- Mighty, the All- Knowing” [36:38] how can an illiterate in the 7th century in the desert knows that the sun rotates in a fixed orbit? Perhaps this piece of information was known in one of the former great empires the roman or the Persians?

In Qur’an you find “Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe” [21:30] does this remind you of something? Oh yes! Big bang. But how does anybody could have known about big bang before the last 60 years?

You find also “Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke” [41:11] you know science has proved that the space is full of some kind of dust called cosmic dust they say it fills all in between stars and planets they say it consists of dust particles like you find it in homes but when they tried to take samples of this dust particles they said that it doesn’t look like dust at all, in fact, it looks more like SMOKE and more researches proved that the dust that spread around a supernova (a blowing up star) is actually smoke and that the universe was smoke in its initial stages.

All of this might be an evidence and it might be not. But if you chose this to be not sufficient evidence then you have to say why. Because this may be true and maybe not, maybe this isn’t in Qur’an and maybe this isn’t real scientific discoveries and maybe there is a third explanation which people couldn’t find it yet. So please if you could find it please tell me. No one wants to be on the wrong ideology and someone has to be right (which doesn’t have to be Muslims).

Muslims always claims to have strong logic and they are proud of it, so prove it wrong.

Maybe prophet mohammed pbuh was just lucky with science .
i am just kidding

 

[LaaIlahaIllAllah]

If the Qu'ran is for all of mankind and for all of time then surely it's magnificence would be apparent in any language. But obviously that is beyond the author is it?

...

When something is translated, especially from such a rich language like Arabic, many meanings can be lost since there is no sufficient translation.

Also, when it is translated, it is not it. It is not the revelation that was sent.

This is possibly why Allah (Azza wa Jal) chose Arabic for His final revelation because of it's richness and also the miracle of neither poetry, nor prose when everything in Arabic falls into one of the two.

See how Allah makes His Signs clear for us?

 

[no-body]

when did he spent a lot of time discussing a variety of things ??

He spent time with Bedouins and merchants during his youth. Do you really think he lived in a bubble and absorbed nothing around him from the time of youth to dictating the Koran?

he didn't and the Qur'an is not a poem and it even doesn't follow poems rules.

I said that Muhammed was a natural poet not that the Koran was a poem. He had a natural gift for words.

it was a Literary miracle.it's impossible that he was inspired by his people because its totally different than any other thing at that time

Completely subjective, you would have to say that being Muslim. It isn't a literary miracle to me and if you are going to say something about not understanding Arabic well then Allah should get busy beaming the real translation into my head if he wants me to turn to Islam.

 

[loverOfTruth]

I look forward to reading comments from readers.

Welcome Back (at it again)

Anyway, I would like to add one point in support of the claim of literary miracle of the Qur'an. Please note that the Qur'an was not revealed as one book in one single act of revelation. It was revealed in stages over a period of 23 years (one or more verses at a time) to Prophet Muhammad(pbuh). Sometimes they were revealed based on circumstances, for example, occasionally when non-believers would question Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) about something, a revelation came as a response. However, the order of the verses were given at the time of the revelation (which was different from the chronological order of revelation). Why should all that matter ? Let's look at the following example.

The very first revelation that Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) received is in the first few verses from Sura(chapter) al-'alaq (96:1-5) which reads as follows
(note : Surah #96 after the reordering in the complete book form as it exists today) ...
"Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-
Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:
Proclaim! And thy Lord is Most Bountiful,-
He Who taught (the use of) the pen,-
Taught man that which he knew not."

The remainder of Sura 96, which has total 19 verses (after the reordering in the complete book form as it exists today), was revealed on some later occasion. Now let's read verses 6-8 of the Surah 96:
"Nay, but man doth transgress all bounds,
In that he looketh upon himself as self-sufficient.
Verily, to thy Lord is the return (of all)."

Now read the above verses (1-8) all together. Do you see the continuity, the context and so on ? This is just one example. Imagine all the possible combinations when you try to reorder 6000+ verses. Do you really think it is humanly possible to come up with 6000+ verses (situational and not) chronologically over '23 years' and assign the order of 'all those 6000+ verses' in advance (before the actual writing) and yet maintain all the perfect literary characteristics(the rythm, ryhme, context etc. and many more) and that even without any mistakes or contradictions in the book? I think humans will have hard time writing 50 verses chronologically while assigning their order(which is different from the order of writing) in advance just to avoid mistakes and maintain the continuity and context let alone the perfectness of all the other features. Finally, even those individual revelations (verses) before re-ordering were as perfect as the entire book after the re-ordering. Go figure - why it transcends anything human like.

 

[LaaIlahaIllAllah]

I said that Muhammed was a natural poet not that the Koran was a poem. He had a natural gift for words.

Even if he was a "natural poet", the Quran does not fit in poetry, nor prose and that is one of the things that makes the Quran a miracle cause that can't be reproduced.

 

[keroghee]

He spent time with Bedouins and merchants during his youth. Do you really think he lived in a bubble and absorbed nothing around him from the time of youth to dictating the Koran?



I said that Muhammad was a natural poet not that the Koran was a poem. He had a natural gift for words.

fair enough if Qur'an is good in only literature.

Completely subjective, you would have to say that being Muslim. It isn't a literary miracle to me and if you are going to say something about not understanding Arabic well then Allah should get busy beaming the real translation into my head if he wants me to turn to Islam.

Believe me Qur'an has many points to attack if you want, but literature is not one of them. ِArab Christians and atheists and even Orientalists themselves testify that it’s amazing and nothing like it, from literature point of view, but this does not mean they believe it's god's.
And i think we too should not believe it’s god's just because of its carefully chosen words, beautifully structured sentences…etc., that's not a thing for the English speaker to do. I don’t see how anybody could be convinced in English that that a text is beautifully written in Hebrew (for example)!!!
Is Qur’an made for Arabs only? Definitely not, that’s why it has far more miracles than literature.

Suppose a man came to me and told me that there is a book which has appeared 15 century ago in the other half of earth and its literary miraculous I’d tell him well good luck with your book but I have no interest in it, but then he says oh wait it’s not a literature book, its writer claims it to be also a book of science, faith, historic stories…etc., I’d reply to him now we’re talking, give me (say) the science part to examine. I am man of science.
Do you see what I’m trying to say?
So please let the literature point aside as I don’t think anyone here is willing to discuss the Arabic language. By the way I also speak Arabic. But that is irrelevant.

 

[LaaIlahaIllAllah]

So please let the literature point aside as I don’t think anyone here is willing to discuss the Arabic language. By the way I also speak Arabic. But that is irrelevant.

Why leave this aside?

Allah (Azza wa Jal) says (translation of meaning):

{And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah , if you should be truthful.}
[ Surat Al-Baqarah/2, v. 23 ]


Until they do this, we don't even need to go into the other things. It's called a GG, quick KO.


The Qur’an’s Challenge: A Literary & Linguistic Miracle


Three Lines that Changed the World: The Inimitability of the Shortest Chapter in the Quran

 

[beerisit]

You are claiming that the beauty and magnificence, and the fact that no-one can come up with something as sublime proves the Qu'ran comes from god. The shortest chapter you quoted as proof is not, in my opinion, any of those things. It sounds like non-sensical drivel to me. I'm just saying that as proof it fails abysmally.