What Explains U.S. Mass Shootings?

[Jeremiahcp]

Statistics does not make mass shootings acceptable. People are not numbers on a page, we are talking about human lives.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Confiscating guns is too simplistic and old fashioned hate will still use cars to drive into people or knives or bats or pressure cookers with little metal balls or bombs. Many cases involved people under medication. There is a lowering of respect for life as well. Politicians fanning the flames of class envy or disrespect toward police doesn't help. Violent video games and violent media affect some people different than others, making some callous as well.

Psalm 6 a sorrowful psalm

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

We must also be wary of statistics which falsely make
the picture look worse by including justifiable shootings.

Interesting....would you say that every country with more
gun deaths is third world / undeveloped?

What are Justifiable shootings?
Any one shooting at another person in the UK will be prosecuted. (even those that miss)
Even police shootings involve complete investigations and usually suspension from firearms duty, during the process. If it is found against them, they are prosecuted like anyone else.

People can not shoot someone else for Trespass or burglary. It would be at least manslaughter.
even threatening to do so is a criminal offence.

Not all countries with more deaths than the USA are by definition,, third world, but a majority would be classed as developing.

 

[esmith]

"You do realize that the percentage of these firearms used in criminal activities are very very very low. "

How many deaths before you'd willing to give up your "sporting event"?

You do realize that your above statement could be applied to anything that caused a death? Or is it you are so blinded in your prejudices that you can not think rationally?

 

[Revoltingest]

What are Justifiable shootings?

Shooting in self defense is one.
Example.....
Shot that hit Omaha man accused of domestic assault was fired in self-defense, prosecutor says

Before anyone dismisses this as mere anecdote, it is only an example, but one of a great many.
These are almost never covered in mainstream media for a couple reasons.....
1) They're local news without controversy, & unworthy of national attention.
2) They would portray using guns for self defense in a positive light.
This would run counter to leftish agendas of many news organizations.

Any one shooting at another person in the UK will be prosecuted. (even those that miss)

Is even self defense illegal in Limeyland?
To what extent may you legally use violence to defend yourself against assault there?

Even police shootings involve complete investigations and usually suspension from firearms duty, during the process. If it is found against them, they are prosecuted like anyone else.

This sounds like an ideal to adopt here.

People can not shoot someone else fork Trespass or burglary. It would be at least manslaughter.
even threatening to do so is a criminal offence.

The law varies, but here I'm not permitted to shoot in defense of property.
I recall that even defending other people has been illegal at times.

Not all countries with more deaths than the USA are by definition,, third world, but a majority would be classed as developing.

This sounds more reasonable than some more ambitious claims I read earlier.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Some delicious irony....
You & yours so vigorously oppose gun ownership by people in a distant
country, separated by thousands of miles of ocean. It's odd that the
strength of your fear impedes an accurate understanding of our law,
politics, & society.
But I remind you that guns came in handy back in the day, when your ilk
crossed that ocean, & we had to twice kick your colonial arschen out.

All Americans at that time were Colonists.
The war was mostly fought by colonist against colonist.
The number of British troops involved was minimal.
The Government never got round to sending British reinforcements.
The Colonists on both sides held weapons under British law. in the same way as the British at home could and did at that time.

We never did send an Army across that ocean.

The nearest to it, was when we captured Quebec from the French. but if we had not, you would not be eating Cajun chicken and the like today.

 

[esmith]

What are Justifiable shootings?
Any one shooting at another person in the UK will be prosecuted. (even those that miss)
Even police shootings involve complete investigations and usually suspension from firearms duty, during the process. If it is found against them, they are prosecuted like anyone else.

People can not shoot someone else for Trespass or burglary. It would be at least manslaughter.
even threatening to do so is a criminal offence.

Not all countries with more deaths than the USA are by definition,, third world, but a majority would be classed as developing.

First this is not the UK
Second it is within the judgement of the District Attorney's Office, and only that office, to determine whether a shooting is justifiable
I do not see what point you are attempting to make in your statement about a police officer
Yes a person can be shot for trespassing or burglary, and legally do so. I don't have the slightest idea where you came up with that nonfactual statement.

 

[Revoltingest]

We never did send an Army across that ocean.

Whatever you call them, we spanked'm & sent'm packing...twice.
And later, we crossed that ocean to save yer arschen....twice.
Feel free to thank us for your not having to sprechen die Deutschistanian.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Shooting in self defense is one.
Example.....
Shot that hit Omaha man accused of domestic assault was fired in self-defense, prosecutor says

Before anyone dismisses this as mere anecdote, it is only an example, but one of a great many.
These are almost never covered in mainstream media for a couple reasons.....
1) They're local news without controversy, & unworthy of national attention.
2) They would portray using guns for self defense in a positive light.
This would run counter to leftish agendas of many news organizations.

Is even self defense illegal in Limeyland?
To what extent may you legally use violence to defend yourself against assault there?

This sounds like an ideal to adopt here.

The law varies, but here I'm not permitted to shoot in defense of property.
I recall that even defending other people has been illegal at times.

This sounds more reasonable than some more ambitious claims I read earlier.

Shooting in self defence "can" be legal.
But it opens a can of worms.
As it is illegal in most cased to have a fire arm, you are likely to be prosecuted for that at least.
Some time ago farmer who shot at two youths, with his shot gun, who had attached him in his house, was sent to prison for manslaughter of one of them. On appeal the sentence was reduced to a few years that he had already served. It is very difficult to prove that your life was in danger.

I can not remember a successful case of self defence involving a shooting. Shooting by criminals of individuals and householders. is extremely rare in any event.

Hold ups of banks and post offices rarely involve firearms and it is even more rare for them to be used.

Most firearm offences are gang related or Criminal against criminal.
They generally do not shoot civilians, as they know they will be caught and get whole life sentences. They can even get life for carrying in those circumstances.

 

[Revoltingest]

Shooting in self defence "can" be legal.
But it opens a can of worms.
As it is illegal in most cased to have a fire arm, you are likely to be prosecuted for that at least.

If self defense results in being caught with an illegal gun, then
prosecution for this crime (not self defense) makes sense.

Some time ago farmer who shot at two youths, with his shot gun, who had attached him in his house, was sent to prison for manslaughter of one of them.

I'm sure your society is better off by imprisoning the guy who killed an assailant.
Better instead that the attacker live to fight another day after killing the evil farmer, eh.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Whatever you call them, we spanked'm & sent'm packing...twice.
And later, we crossed that ocean to save yer arschen....twice.
Feel free to thank us for your not having to sprechen die Deutschistanian.

The people you beat were your own loyal colonists.
The British Government did not see it as a war worth fighting, and were to a large extent spectators.
George on the other hand was distraught.


As to the second world war....
Britain with the help of the other Member countries of the British Empire and Russia. Had reduced the Axis power to a level that was manageable, but in stalemate by the time the USA was forced into the war.
We probably would have held them like that, until Russia had completed the Job for us.
However that would have resulted in an almost total Communist Europe.

Russia is undefeatable in a conventional war. Much in the way China or the USA would be.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

If self defense results in being caught with an illegal gun, then
prosecution for this crime (not self defense) makes sense.

I'm sure your society is better off by imprisoning the guy who killed an assailant.
Better instead that the attacker live to fight another day after killing the evil farmer, eh.

The chances of the farmer being killed were minimal, beaten up possibly... yes... But using a firearm to kill or maim is the greater offence.

Any one prepared to kill needs locking up. Firing a warning shot would have been more appropriate.

But this is all academic. Using a firearm for self defence is as rare as hens teeth in the UK.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

You do realize that your above statement could be applied to anything that caused a death? Or is it you are so blinded in your prejudices that you can not think rationally?

But we are not talking about anything, as you were talking about semi-automatic firearms and you were trying to justify the ownership of these weapons, that are made for killing lots of targets quickly, for sporting events; not self defense but sporting events. So how many deaths before you'd willing to give up your "sporting event"?

 

[Jeremiahcp]

I am OK with gun ownership for self defense or for hunting (as a means to provide food), but for fun? For fun is not a good reason to start handing out semi-automatic weapons. They are guns, not toys, take them seriously.

 

[Revoltingest]

The people you beat were your own loyal colonists.

A few traitors were loyal to your monarchy.
So we kicked their arschen too.

The British Government did not see it as a war worth fighting, and were to a large extent spectators.
George on the other hand was distraught.

I hope we made him cry.

As to the second world war....
Britain with the help of the other Member countries of the British Empire and Russia. Had reduced the Axis power to a level that was manageable, but in stalemate by the time the USA was forced into the war.
We probably would have held them like that, until Russia had completed the Job for us.
However that would have resulted in an almost total Communist Europe.

So you don't think our help mattered much, eh?
We sure wasted a lotta time, energy, money & lives there then.

 

[Revoltingest]

The chances of the farmer being killed were minimal, beaten up possibly... yes... But using a firearm to kill or maim is the greater offence.

It serves the greater good to take a beating without violent resistance, eh?

Any one prepared to kill needs locking up.

You & I have very different values.
To not only blame the potential victim, but to prosecute'm resisting becoming one?
I don't believe in the bend-over-&-spread'm approach to being attacked.
Violent resistance to assault is more than merely justifiable.
It's a moral choice, be it chemical, firearm, blunt instrument, or edged weapon.

Firing a warning shot would have been more appropriate.

A warning shot might work on occasion.
One reason I carry chamber empty is that racking the slide is a
warning which could discourage an attacker from proceeding.
I prefer paths of least effort & danger.

But this is all academic. Using a firearm for self defence is as rare as hens teeth in the UK.

If eschewing violence in self defense works for you,
I've no objection to your choosing it. But I find it
immoral to impose it upon others.

 

[esmith]

But we are not talking about anything, as you were talking about semi-automatic firearms and you were trying to justify the ownership of these weapons, that are made for killing lots of targets quickly, for sporting events; not self defense but sporting events. So how many deaths before you'd willing to give up your "sporting event"?

I can use any semi-automatic firearm for any legal activity I so desire. This includes, sporting events, hunting, target shooting, self-defenses, and any other legal activity I or any other legal owner of a firearm wants to do.
To your other point.....I am not willing to forgo ownership or possible ownership of any current legal firearms.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

I can use any semi-automatic firearm for any legal activity I so desire. This includes, sporting events, hunting, target shooting, self-defenses, and any other legal activity I or any other legal owner of a firearm wants to do.
To your other point.....I am not willing to forgo ownership or possible ownership of any current legal firearms.

"To your other point.....I am not willing to forgo ownership or possible ownership of any current legal firearms."

So you don't care how many deaths, as long as you can have your fun.

 

[Notanumber]

If self defense results in being caught with an illegal gun, then
prosecution for this crime (not self defense) makes sense.

I'm sure your society is better off by imprisoning the guy who killed an assailant.
Better instead that the attacker live to fight another day after killing the evil farmer, eh.

Here is some background to the case mentioned.

Tony Martin (farmer) - Wikipedia

Tony Martin murder case | UK news | The Guardian

In the UK, these travellers are a law unto themselves. When the police are scared of them, can we blame the likes of Tony Martin for defending himself? He lived in the back of beyond and it would have taken the police an age to get there even if they had felt like responding.

Woman finds stolen caravan on travellers’ site after police 'scared' to enter

The way things are going over here it won’t be long before we start to envy your gun culture.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

A few traitors were loyal to your monarchy.
So we kicked their arschen too.

I hope we made him cry.

So you don't think our help mattered much, eh?
We sure wasted a lotta time, energy, money & lives there then.

You were making too much money from us to want to join the fight on our behalf.
You only joined in when Germany started sinkiing your own ships.
Which was a big mistake by Hitler.

It certainly speeded up his defeat.

But don't think for a minute that you did it for us or anyone else