What gives your 'God' the right to damn? What condones burning for eternity?

[Pegg]

Or that any of them are...



First they need to determine which version (if any) of the Bible is the "correct" one.

that would seriously complicate things if we were to believe that there are different versions of the bible.

Thats a subject for another thread

 

[Me Myself]

Interesting, I have absolutely no knowledge about your religion, I think I may have been very naive when I contemplated this thought and made the assumptions that Heaven and Hell, or even just the after life was the most important thing to all relgions, so I simply assumed it was a necessary factor.

Oh yes, very naive indeed

 

[Me Myself]

that would seriously complicate things if we were to believe that there are different versions of the bible.

Thats a subject for another thread

It would take a titanic amount of reading miscomprehension to think there is only one version of the bible o.o

 

[McBell]

that would seriously complicate things if we were to believe that there are different versions of the bible.

Thats a subject for another thread

It might of been if you had not brought it up in this one.

 

[MaxPayne]

Looking forward to getting opinions on this from religious minds and also people who do not follow a religion.

The one thing I cannot accept about all religions is the after life. You get in or you don't. Not including purgatory.

I will explain this using Christianity.
Your after life all depends on the life you live now, whether your 'good or bad'
One of the first questions I asked a Christian was 'How are people bad if God made us that way, why didn't he make us all good' Which I was given the usual speech about the gift of Free Will yadaa yadaa. And for a while I simply accepted that.
But now what I don't understand is, yes we have free will, the ability to make good and bad choices, but do we really? To the extent that we can be judged by them? Eternally?

No body is born evil. The beaten grow up to beat there own and I am aware of the constant moral debate about whether you can blame a person for beating their child when they were beaten their whole life. My opinion on this matter is yes they are still to blame, plenty of people brake out of that cycle. Its 2013 with the amount of deadbeat parents there are nar days simply 'I had a bad upbringing' isnt enough of an excuse anymore. But thats this life, on earth.

Now before I make my actual point I have to explain a few points that I view as facts

God is not evil
God loves his creations
God understands his creations

So, if you agree with those points how can you accept that God would damn a man to hell forEVER for the bad deeds he committed in his life when no child is born evil, so it must be things that have effected him in this life to cause him to act that way? A normal fully functioning human being does not enjoy doing bad things, so they do not do them, if they do, they either do not intend to or do not know what they are doing is bad. If they do not what they are doing they are not a fully functioning human being so how can they be blamed? Its not there fault!

There are true stories of very young children doing very evil things, which could dispute the fact that no child is born evil, but thats not the point im making, even if a child is born and is 'evil' that backs my point that they cannot be blamed. This includes people with mental health issues

When I asked a Christian about this once they said it is the devil that makes people do bad things; I replied that by claiming that they are admitting it is not the humans fault; They said yes it is because the person should of made the right decision, but in eyes they still cannot really be blamed because there is a reason they made this decision, that God as our creator should be able to understand.
The only dispute to this argument I can think of is if the devil actually appeared to someone of average intelligence and correct mental state, told them to do something, and they did it, knowing that the deed was evil. Then I could accept it.

To summarize; There are many reasons people do bad things, the only true difference is whether the person is sane or not. If you a conscious of doing something bad you should be punished for it. But there is a thick line between punishment and torture. You punish someone to teach them a lesson. Heaven and hell are eternal, you cant vist one and pop to the other. So hell is not a punishment it is torture. And i do not believe that a God who understands his creations would torture them for making wrong decisions that really, they did not choose to make. A human being does not get to choose the person they become, of course they can choose how they act, but not there actual self. You can have urges to kill and keep them locked away, because you are strong enough too. Can we really torture people for not being strong enough? Yes. Can God? Maybe, but is doing that not contradicting the reason hes doing it?


Also, you could dispute this by saying God doesnt understand us enough to be able to accept the reasons we do bad deeds, if this is true, how does he have the right to judge us for them?

Under the assumption that God has multiple personality disorder.
Time your death in such a way that when you reach there he will be in a good mood.
:bow:

 

[sojourner]

I will explain this using Christianity.

But you haven't "used Christianity."

In your example, you say:

Your after life all depends on the life you live now, whether your 'good or bad'

But Xy isn't predicated on karma. It's predicated on grace -- which has nothing to do with "how we live." It has everything to do with what God does.

I don't believe God condemns us. I believe God saves us, because God created us for a love relationship.

 

[lfa11]

I dont see God as one really and all of the unknown universe or universes are Giod, He as they say - created animals first then US. its all a way of finally getting to what he wants as prefection.
There are way too many people in the world and something needs to control that other than armies or killers, so nature shows whatever you harm from me i will take a life from you
thats why i think it will never end in natural disasters cause we always destroy living things and nature

 

[Me Myself]

that would seriously complicate things if we were to believe that there are different versions of the bible.

Thats a subject for another thread

It would seriously complicate things and raise a lot of questions about education to hear someone honestly beliefs there is just one version of the bible.

 

[Pegg]

It would seriously complicate things and raise a lot of questions about education to hear someone honestly beliefs there is just one version of the bible.

depends what you define as a 'version'

 

[Riverwolf]

Justice is only in the human realm. After death, our deeds in life don't matter much.

It's as simple as this:

If you fear death, Hel will be horrible to behold.
If you don't fear death, Hel will be most beautiful.

According to more recent songs, if you die in battle, you'll either go to Valhalla to join the Einherjar, or Volkvangr where... nobody remembers what happens there.

 

[lornamason]

I can see your thought process, I thought the same way in my teenage years, 30 years later Ive learned much. Firstly you cant perceive God or a higher power as an outside thing, sitting behind a desk… YOU exist from light just as all things in the universe does. So lets try and piece together your concepts best I can…..



To start with YOU are your own judge and jury, which is made up from your heart and your head and your souls learning…. So for example a dog keeps coming into your yard tips over your bin to find food and leaves rubbish all over your yard… your annoyed! Your head says shot the dog after the 10th time, your heart says maybe I can leave a plate of scraps for it… which do you chose? This dilemma is your judge and jury…. I know for certain when we cross over there is NO tick list in terms of right and wrong…. Our own thinking and self dislike determines what vibrational dimension we reside in if we chose not go into the light to heal….



Therefore our own PERSONAL hell not one determined by another or a higher power! My suggestion therefore is to listen to your heart even when something annoys you, as this is how we overcome our negative mind state and connects us to the “light” what we all own and possess. Religious doctrine has been created to enslave people to the concept that something else determines our future, the way we HAVE to think, judge and lead our lives… its not true.. take back your personal power and own your decisions for yourself. You are the master of your thoughts and feelings, own them and change them if you don’t like them..

 

[psalmist23]

The Christian God is not a God of condemnation, but of compassion and mercy. He is our Creator, and thus, we were born to live for and worship him. However, everything went wrong in the Garden of Eden, and because Adam sinned, he brought sin to all men. This does not mean that God is unfair – instead, it speaks of the severity and consequences of that sin, which is mostly incomprehensible to the human heart (which finds it to be extremely unfair).


Yet God loved the human race tremendously, and he chose to devise a rescue plan. The plan was to reveal himself, his goodness, kindness and mercy, unto mankind, by sending his one and only Son to be his interpreter, and even to take the punishment for the sins of humanity upon himself on the cross. He then raised him from the dead, pronouncing to the world that Jesus is indeed the savior and Lord of all.


If we continuously chose to reject the salvation found in Jesus Christ, then, at the end of our lives, God will not just throw us into the lake of fire, thereby saying, “My will be done!” No, his will is to save mankind. If we chose to keep on rejecting his free proposal of coming back to him, then, in the end, however, he will be forced to say: “your will be done!” And our will, sadly enough, will have been to live without him for eternity.

 

[Vinayaka]

The one thing I cannot accept about all religions is the after life. You get in or you don't. Not including purgatory.

Not all religions believe that. I think you've generalised out from one in particular, and not even all of that one.

 

[nazz]

Looking forward to getting opinions on this from religious minds and also people who do not follow a religion.

I am NOT Religious..

The one thing I cannot accept about all religions is the after life. You get in or you don't. Not including purgatory.

This is false

I will explain this using Christianity.
Your after life all depends on the life you live now, whether your 'good or bad'

That's not what the Christian religion teaches

 

[McBell]

That's not what the Christian religion teaches

Really?
Cause it sure is what a lot of Christians preach.

 

[nazz]

Really?
Cause it sure is what a lot of Christians preach.

I've never heard it. The Christian religion teaches that one cannot earn one's way into heaven. One cannot be good enough to merit it nor to avoid hell. Thus one must place one's faith in Christ if one wishes to be saved.

 

[McBell]

I've never heard it. The Christian religion teaches that one cannot earn one's way into heaven. One cannot be good enough to merit it nor to avoid hell. Thus one must place one's faith in Christ if one wishes to be saved.

And yet so many Christians seem to think that if they are not good, they do not get into Heaven.
Of course, there are also those who believe that once saved, they cannot lose their place in Heaven.

Perhaps you should get out more?

 

[nazz]

And yet so many Christians seem to think that if they are not good, they do not get into Heaven.

You generally find that idea expressed by cultural Christians. But it has never been part of the teaching of any denomination that I am aware of. Catholic teaching as I understand it does teach a mixture of faith and works is necessary.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Really?
Cause it sure is what a lot of Christians preach.

Its important to note the way that dialogue of the religious community differs from the official positions of the church in question would indicate is appropriate. It is also important to note that the official positions change over time, yet even after a change is made to official policy it will likely take generations to sink into the religious community (such as the fact that the roman catholic church's official policy on creation is long earth creation achieved in no small part through the use of natural processes including evolution - despite the fact that so many roman catholic people do not accept evolution it IS the official position of that church, because it is a recent policy change acceptance has yet to materialise significantly among catholics as many still believe the church does not accept evolution and as such do not accept it themselves). It was not particularly long ago that so many christian churches actively taught that no matter how wonderful a person, unless they were baptised into the correct church, accepted jesus and fulfilled various other criteria they would be tortured forever (with the possible exception of unbaptised babies)

 

[McBell]

You generally find that idea expressed by cultural Christians. But it has never been part of the teaching of any denomination that I am aware of. Catholic teaching as I understand it does teach a mixture of faith and works is necessary.

Interesting.
You never heard it but know that it come mostly from cultural Christians?
Neat trick...


You do realize that I am speaking about what some members are actually preaching, right?
Your "defense" of "no religion teaches that" seems to be more a deflective strawman than an honest reply.