Starfish
Please no sarcasm
The OP talks about church teachings on sex. Assuming that church is Biblically based, then sex belongs within marriage only.
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What good are church teachings on Sex?
- Thread starter blackout
- Start date
The OP talks about church teachings on sex. Assuming that church is Biblically based, then sex belongs within marriage only.
Starfish
Please no sarcasm
My church clearly taught me when sex is appropriate and when it's not. So I followed that counsel. Nearly 40 years later, I can testify that it works. The blessings are real, and so worth it. I am so grateful for the wisdom of those who knew more than I did, and that I followed it.
trinity2359
Active Member
if you'd 'do anything for' then why don't you respect that person and marry them? Oh, you want the ability to walk out without ramifications, well,... except for any kids that might come your way. (*snark meter off*)
Hexaqua_David(II)
Active Member
if you'd 'do anything for' then why don't you respect that person and marry them? Oh, you want the ability to walk out without ramifications, well,... except for any kids that might come your way. (*snark meter off*)
That sounds a lot like a personal attack to me... My parents never married, they basically agreed that there was little point. They wanted to break free of the almost default succession of events. "So when are you going to get married?" was a question often asked by my grandparents. They loved each other, they wanted to be together and that's what they did. Do they not respect each other? I think they do. In fact in their relationship I see a lot of great qualities, ones that I feel have affected my life positively and thus lead me to believe that they are good parents, despite their lack of legal binding. What I took from your post was basically this: "if you do not get married you do not fully respect your partner", which is utter nonsense. Feel free to correct me if I have taken what you said wrongly.
- David
blackout
Violet.
Wow! Phil sure knows what will make a good thread!
I slept most of the day fighting a "cold"
so just came back on to see all these responses!
In my congested state let me just clarify a bit more
what I was getting at in my OP.
Father Heathen was right on track when he said...
and +Xausted said she had to actually leave her church
to be honest about her sexuality.
I could probably write a thousand words here,
but here's what I was getting at...
The whole (in my case) Roman Catholic attitude toward
self, self expression, holiness, purity, modesty, chastity, virginity,
confession, sin, masturbation, oral/anal sex,birth control,
any non intercourse expressions of sexuality
NEEDING to preceed intercourse as foreplay.
(all this applying even INSIDE of marriage)
Indeed the whole "tempering of the flesh"
"lust is evil" attitude of prevalence.
Spirit good. Flesh sinful.
Shall I go on? Need I?
How is a woman to EMBRACE her sensuality in the midst of all this?
How is she to love and develop her womanhood?
Where is the encouragement to love your sensuality?
Embrace your sexuality... lift it up?
move your hips, bump and grind, take it off alluringly, lick your lips
in the midst of all this damn "purity".
What pure and holy person is gunna talk dirty with their spouse?
Come on! It just doesn't fit.
I was afraid to touch my own body till the age of 39 for God's sake!
All this focus on piety and modesty
not only kept me from knowing my sensuality...
expressing and enjoying the "badness" of my sexuality...
but it kept me from KNOWING my womanhood,
and knowing my very self.
It's not healthy.
Hexaqua_David(II)
Active Member
That last post amused me Violet. I have a few Catholic friends but never knew that sexually was treated quite like that. I've never had any problems with my sexuality, mainly because I've always been encouraged to be myself by my parents and environment. I can't imagine what it must be like to be afraid of the intimacy you describe, or to view it as an offence which might result in me being sent to some dark place (and sadly not a bondage dungeon). Why is the church allowed to influence people in such severe ways? It seems that if the church does cause people to repress their natural sensuality, they are abusing the "humanness" of the very people they claim to support. I feel so naive having never even heard of this before... Is your case rare or do you think it is a fairly common story?
- David
- David
As much as I sympathize, Violet, I'm going to defend the church on something here. There are benefits to following abstinence until marriage if one wishes to have a child with your life-long heterosexual partner. Being chaste can offer someone the opportunity to learn patience......and we all know just how patient one has to be since in this day and age, when girls are not expected to get married right out of high school. That seriously widens the gap between sexual maturity and marital status. When girls were expected to marry at around 15-18 or so, there wasn't much reason to worry about roaming and experimenting because they could expect to explore their sexuality within a reasonable time of a few years. Society has changed some things, though, and clearly not to this benefit.
It's definitely good intentions, I understand, but I agree with you that the church fails to educate young men and women exactly HOW to explore their sexuality within marriage. All many folks get is a long list of "don't do this, don't do that....." without any sort of embellishment on what they CAN do when they're married.
If had a sincere faith within the church, I know that having some sort of counsel on sexual exploration without shame or embarassment would be valuable.
Since neither of my marriages have been acknowledged by the church, I can only guess what it offers married couples. Is it mostly, "Well, folks, now you can have fun! You're on your own, though, I have a plane to catch......."?
Peace,
Mystic
It's definitely good intentions, I understand, but I agree with you that the church fails to educate young men and women exactly HOW to explore their sexuality within marriage. All many folks get is a long list of "don't do this, don't do that....." without any sort of embellishment on what they CAN do when they're married.
If had a sincere faith within the church, I know that having some sort of counsel on sexual exploration without shame or embarassment would be valuable.
Since neither of my marriages have been acknowledged by the church, I can only guess what it offers married couples. Is it mostly, "Well, folks, now you can have fun! You're on your own, though, I have a plane to catch......."?
Peace,
Mystic
blackout
Violet.
Most Catholics do not follow the teachings of their church.
(or in many cases even know them)
But why do they go then? That I can never understand.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
Sex is certainly a personal thing. Some are into it and some aren't. Our environment--especially our culture--colors our perception of it. But since sexuality is so basic to the human experience (even in those who define themselves as asexual), demonizing it can do some damage to those who are experimenting, particularly in other people's treatment of those individuals.
There is great risk in sex. There are diseases and unwanted pregnancies. But making it a taboo only creates a bigger danger; people are sexual and will experiment. Without the proper education, they won't know how to deal with the risks.
Besides, living is full of necessary risk.
There is great risk in sex. There are diseases and unwanted pregnancies. But making it a taboo only creates a bigger danger; people are sexual and will experiment. Without the proper education, they won't know how to deal with the risks.
Besides, living is full of necessary risk.
blackout
Violet.
As much as I sympathize, Violet, I'm going to defend the church on something here. There are benefits to following abstinence until marriage if one wishes to have a child with your life-long heterosexual partner. Being chaste can offer someone the opportunity to learn patience......and we all know just how patient one has to be since in this day and age, when girls are not expected to get married right out of high school. That seriously widens the gap between sexual maturity and marital status. When girls were expected to marry at around 15-18 or so, there wasn't much reason to worry about roaming and experimenting because they could expect to explore their sexuality within a reasonable time of a few years. Society has changed some things, though, and clearly not to this benefit.
It's definitely good intentions, I understand, but I agree with you that the church fails to educate young men and women exactly HOW to explore their sexuality within marriage. All many folks get is a long list of "don't do this, don't do that....." without any sort of embellishment on what they CAN do when they're married.
If had a sincere faith within the church, I know that having some sort of counsel on sexual exploration without shame or embarassment would be valuable.
Since neither of my marriages have been acknowledged by the church, I can only guess what it offers married couples. Is it mostly, "Well, folks, now you can have fun! You're on your own, though, I have a plane to catch......."?
Peace,
Mystic
But what I was saying in my OP Mystic
(though very ambiguously)
is that as a young person brought up Catholic
I did not WANT to live by their "rules".
I DID engage in out of/pre marital sex.
But they did their job regardless...
of impairing my ability to express myself there
with confidence and spark and personality!
and even though I rejected the church at that point in my life
and for many years there after....
in all that time, I could not enjoy masturbation.
I could not enjoy my own personal sexuality.
If I had known myself in masturbation back then
in the formidable time of my life...
loved and enjoyed myself in that capacity...
I'm SURE I would not have even gone looking
in other lesser places as i did.
I find nothing defesible in their attitudes towards sexuality,
especially (but not exclusively) as it regards women.
and for that matter homosexuality.
My bi-sexual tendencies were not something I could even ADMIT
to myself until this past year.
There is so much freedom in the truth.
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
Personally, my experiences were different with my different partners. (Forgive me if this is overly off topic. I'm going to share a personal account, here.)
The Church as totally influenced my sex life.
I certainly wasn't a Christian when I started having sex but I was attending Church on Sundays and was a God-fearing individual. I was instructed that good girls wait until marriage to have sex and my Mom was and still is the voice of my conscience.
I recall being seventeen, sitting in Church on an Easter Sunday, thinking about the sex that I'd probably have when my then boyfriend (sitting beside me) and I were alone.
I believed even then that pre-marital sex was sinful but I wasn't overwhelmed with guilt after sex with guys.
Now, regarding my experiences with girls...that's a different story. I was quite in love with one but held back out of fear. The sex was beautiful but I felt I wasn't allowed to be truly happy, even though I wanted to be. Though I believed that sex with anyone out of marriage was wrong...the guilt factor was overwhelming when it came to my relationships and feelings with/for women. My convictions were totally the result of what I'd learned in Church.
I can relate to what you're saying but I want to add that don't think it's horrible that the "church" influences my sex life. Though I've felt my fair share of guilt, the same teachings that stirred such guilt have served as reminders in situations where I'm happy I didn't give in to temptation.
Starfish
Please no sarcasm
My religion taught me to value myself. It taught me that I was worth saving for my husband, and he for me--which I'm so glad we did--then it, our church, stayed out of our bedroom. And that's where I prefer to stay--out of everyone else's bedrooms!
I really don't want to know what the rest of you are doing, or what you prefer, or what you're interested in sexually, because it's nobody else's business . . . . .:cover:
I really don't want to know what the rest of you are doing, or what you prefer, or what you're interested in sexually, because it's nobody else's business . . . . .:cover:
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
Respectfully, my religion teaches the same thing, however, I personally have found myself in different situations that many Christians I know. I've dealt with struggles that my own family has never known.
I answered the OP honestly and I apologize if you found that offensive.
Halcyon
Lord of the Badgers
Why should you apologise for being honest?
It's the PC thing to do.
trinity2359
Active Member
No offense intended by my comment (hoped the snark comment conveyed my 'tongue in cheek' tone - sorry that it didn't). I personally, don't understand the whole commitment is the same without marriage thing especially when children are involved. But that is not the intention of this thread and have spoken my peace on the matter in another appropriate thread.
Halcyon
Lord of the Badgers
And if you've got a Mac?
Hexaqua_David(II)
Active Member
Then you should just crawl under a stone and die. =)
Starfish
Please no sarcasm
No, I wasn't speaking to you directly. I just get tired of sex everywhere. I can't even stand in a checkout line in a store without learning about someone's personal life on a magazine cover. I hate those scenes in movies that take us into people's most intimate moments, where the rest of us don't belong.
Sex is a beautiful, but personal part of our lives. I prefer to keep it private, between me, my husband, and no one else.
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
And some people like having their sex lives public, an equally valid preference.