What good are church teachings on Sex?

[Starfish]

Well i do believe in a sense of modesty.

As I said before I believe Sexuality should be between yourself and your spouse, should you lack a spouse as many of us do at this point in our lives, we should keep it to ourselves so to speak.

I guess what i mean is this. Sex is not bad, I have never been taught that. I look forward to experimenting and being quite playful with my future wife. However I do believe that my body is for my spouse only, and thus i wait.

Sexual liberation doesn't mean "go out and have sex just for the fun of it". To me it means understanding sex and its power, and using it for pleasure and intimacy between two married people.

Thank you.

 

[Starfish]

That's all very well and good, but I can't help but feel that the boys you mention have influenced greatly by the church and are afraid to think in a dirty way (which is totally natural and not harmful, by the way) because of the unnatural moral expectancies placed upon them at an early age. I think this is what the OP was talking about... making people feel bad about behaving and thinking in a truly human way, in a sexual way. When behaving like animals is when we are most alive!

Just incase I've taken this the wrong way, what did "high moral conduct" mean?

- David

I really didn't mean to anger anyone, but just wanted to express what some of us are feeling.

Yes, we belong to a religion that does greatly influence us in moral conduct. We don't believe in sex of any kind before marriage, and being completely faithful to one's spouse forevermore. We also believe as Christ taught, to avoid lustful thoughts about anyone you're not married to. I KNOW how females feel, obviously, I just never realized what men feel. I never realized the power of the male sex-drive and they are very visually stimulated, moreso than women on average.

We have learned by experience that what we have been taught brings the greatest happiness, and we believe it is what God meant for us. So naturally we teach it to our kids because we want them to experience the happiness we have. It's not the easiest way initially, but the resulting blessings are huge.

 

[doppelganger]

Fear of sex, in my opinion, is much, much more harmful than sex. Repressing sexuality and denying sexual thoughts and feelings consistently creates a schism between the person and the feelings through the judgment of those feelings - placing a wall between the individual and their feelings so that they cannot embrace and understand those feelings (and find healing if necessary). Fear of sex thereby stunts emotional maturity and greatly increases the likelihood of dangerous or irresponsible sexual behavior.

Viva la sex!

 

[Hexaqua_David(II)]

I really didn't mean to anger anyone, but just wanted to express what some of us are feeling.

Yes, we belong to a religion that does greatly influence us in moral conduct. We don't believe in sex of any kind before marriage, and being completely faithful to one's spouse forevermore. We also believe as Christ taught, to avoid lustful thoughts about anyone you're not married to. I KNOW how females feel, obviously, I just never realized what men feel. I never realized the power of the male sex-drive and they are very visually stimulated, moreso than women on average.

We have learned by experience that what we have been taught brings the greatest happiness, and we believe it is what God meant for us. So naturally we teach it to our kids because we want them to experience the happiness we have. It's not the easiest way initially, but the resulting blessings are huge.

How exactly do you know that you have the greatest happiness though? Aren't my parents also happy? They never married, and from what I hear they were quite the adventurous pair right from the start.

- David

 

[blackout]

We have learned by experience that what we have been taught brings the greatest happiness, and we believe it is what God meant for us. So naturally we teach it to our kids because we want them to experience the happiness we have. It's not the easiest way initially, but the resulting blessings are huge.

The greatest happiness FOR YOU perhaps Starfish.

But to assume this is so for everyone is JUST NOT SO.
I tell you this from MY own experience.

I also know a male who was personally hurt by this repression in his teen years
to the point of now needing to lead a celebate life by necessity.
Your way most DEFINATELY does not work best for everyone,
nor does it bring about the greatest happiness for everyone.

I tell you this as a fact.

I'm very glad however if it works for you.

 

[DallasApple]

How exactly do you know that you have the greatest happiness though? Aren't my parents also happy? They never married, and from what I hear they were quite the adventurous pair right from the start.

- David

David...

Do you wonder why they never married?..

Are they good to you?

Do they love each other?

Blessings

Dallas

 

[Hexaqua_David(II)]

David...

Do you wonder why they never married?..

Are they good to you?

Do they love each other?

Blessings

Dallas

They tell me it was basically because they saw no need. I don't think they ever declared "we are not going to get married", they just never did. I don't think I could have asked for a better set of parents to be honest, they encourage me, educate me, console me, and all without making me feel guilty about being myself. My mother makes jokes about my collected of erotic literature, but she's fine with me expressing myself and being healthily sexual.

Do they still love each other? They are still like teenagers after 30 years, it's quite disgusting really... =P

- David

 

[Starfish]

How exactly do you know that you have the greatest happiness though? Aren't my parents also happy? They never married, and from what I hear they were quite the adventurous pair right from the start.

- David

I can only speak by my own experience, and trust the teachings of Christ. It has worked for me and I trust it will work for my children.

It's wonderful that your parents are happy. But many who were "adventurous" weren't so fortunate.

If I had experimented with heroin, for example, then overcame it and learned some valuable lessons in the process, would I recommend my son or daughter to go the same route? No because, even though I turned out fine, it's too risky. (That's probably a bad example, just the best I could come up with.)

I tried to teach my kids to take the safest, proven route, knowing they'll still make plenty of mistakes to learn what they need to learn. Now they are raising their kids the same, because they see the benefits.

 

[doppelganger]

I can only speak by my own experience, and trust the teachings of Christ. It has worked for me and I trust it will work for my children.

It's wonderful that your parents are happy. But many who were "adventurous" weren't so fortunate.

And many who told themselves they were following the "teachings of Christ" weren't so fortunate. :yes:

 

[Starfish]

And many who told themselves they were following the "teachings of Christ" weren't so fortunate. :yes:

There are always exceptions. And the teachings of Christ are so widely interpreted. So I have no way of knowing what you mean actually. I just know what I was taught works. I've seen it over and over, generation after generation. The gospel of Jesus Christ is called the Plan of Happiness, and I believe it was aptly named.

Now, am I forcing my opinions upon anyone by saying this? I don't think so.

 

[DallasApple]

They tell me it was basically because they saw no need. I don't think they ever declared "we are not going to get married", they just never did. I don't think I could have asked for a better set of parents to be honest, they encourage me, educate me, console me, and all without making me feel guilty about being myself. My mother makes jokes about my collected of erotic literature, but she's fine with me expressing myself and being healthily sexual.

Do they still love each other? They are still like teenagers after 30 years, it's quite disgusting really... =P

- David

David...

Your are blessed..Plus you have AWESOME taste...LOL!!

Now as far as your parents "disgusting you"...they are disgusting you in the most great way..Its more disgusting if they screamed and yelled at each other..slept in seperate beds...cut each other down.. or were just plain distant never showing affection to one another....and so on...married or not...you got dealt a great hand as far as parents go...IMHO>..

Blessings

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Oh I will add to that..after 30 years son? Your parents are "married" ...I dont care what anyone else says..

Blessings

Dallas

 

[Inky]

In response to the OP: I'd say I've experienced something similar, but not quite the same. Most of my education on sex and relationships came from the church I attended during my teen and preteen years, a United Methodist church in North Carolina. They definitely drilled into your head that having sex with someone meant that a part of your personal worth now belonged to them, and that a person was "worth" more in a relationship if they hadn't had sex with anyone else, which gave me a rather warped idea of sexuality starting off. They also made it sound like being sexually aroused meant completely losing control of your mind. With my high school boyfriend, whenever we did something new or got to another "base" I'd feel ashamed afterward, so my first explorations weren't as happy as they should have been. When I started my second relationship I felt bad when telling him I wasn't a virgin, like I didn't have as much to offer or something. His assurance and positive attitude helped me a lot, and although we had problems in other areas, I'll always be thankful for that.

On the subject of multiple sexual relationships and marriage: I don't think that having sex with someone has to be a symbol of ultimate bonding or something like that. It's possible for two people to enjoy a healthy sex life with each other with the full knowledge that they might not be together in a year, or even a month, as long as everyone plays it safe with protection from pregnancy and STDs. I value the lessons and experiences I've had with each of my partners, and I'm certainly glad that neither me nor my current boyfriend were virgins when we started dating, since we both brought skills and confidence to the table that let us please each other better. And if we break up, we'll have taught each other a few new tricks along the way to make things even better for the next partners. : ) Of course, everyone has the right to attach their own meanings and symbolisms to their own actions, so if someone decides that celibacy until marriage best reflects the way they think about sex, that's fine too. My way of thinking about it isn't more or less right for everyone, it's just what works best for me.

 

[blackout]

That's all very well and good, but I can't help but feel that the boys you mention have been influenced greatly by the church and are afraid to think in a dirty way (which is totally natural and not harmful, by the way) because of the unnatural moral expectancies placed upon them at an early age. Or perhaps I'm just a sex-crazed maniac! =P I think this is what the OP was talking about...; making people feel bad or guilty about behaving and thinking in a truly human way, in a sexual way. When behaving like animals is when we are most alive!

Just incase I've taken this the wrong way, what did "high moral conduct" mean?

- David

And the prize goes to the 18 year old for getting the point of the thread! YAY!


Don't worry when others try to illegitimize your parents/ family/ way of life.
You live alive to yourself and do your own thing.
Sounds like you have really great parents
and a very realistic and healthy sexual formation.
Consider yourself very very lucky!:rainbow1:

 

[blackout]

In response to the OP: I'd say I've experienced something similar, but not quite the same. Most of my education on sex and relationships came from the church I attended during my teen and preteen years, a United Methodist church in North Carolina. They definitely drilled into your head that having sex with someone meant that a part of your personal worth now belonged to them, and that a person was "worth" more in a relationship if they hadn't had sex with anyone else, which gave me a rather warped idea of sexuality starting off. They also made it sound like being sexually aroused meant completely losing control of your mind. With my high school boyfriend, whenever we did something new or got to another "base" I'd feel ashamed afterward, so my first explorations weren't as happy as they should have been. When I started my second relationship I felt bad when telling him I wasn't a virgin, like I didn't have as much to offer or something. His assurance and positive attitude helped me a lot, and although we had problems in other areas, I'll always be thankful for that.

On the subject of multiple sexual relationships and marriage: I don't think that having sex with someone has to be a symbol of ultimate bonding or something like that. It's possible for two people to enjoy a healthy sex life with each other with the full knowledge that they might not be together in a year, or even a month, as long as everyone plays it safe with protection from pregnancy and STDs. I value the lessons and experiences I've had with each of my partners, and I'm certainly glad that neither me nor my current boyfriend were virgins when we started dating, since we both brought skills and confidence to the table that let us please each other better. And if we break up, we'll have taught each other a few new tricks along the way to make things even better for the next partners. : ) Of course, everyone has the right to attach their own meanings and symbolisms to their own actions, so if someone decides that celibacy until marriage best reflects the way they think about sex, that's fine too. My way of thinking about it isn't more or less right for everyone, it's just what works best for me.

Great post Inky!
Thank you so very much for sharing openly with us like that.
That's the only way any of us can really grow and learn.:rainbow1:

~Vi~

 

[Starfish]

Fear of sex, in my opinion, is much, much more harmful than sex. Repressing sexuality and denying sexual thoughts and feelings consistently creates a schism between the person and the feelings through the judgment of those feelings - placing a wall between the individual and their feelings so that they cannot embrace and understand those feelings (and find healing if necessary). Fear of sex thereby stunts emotional maturity and greatly increases the likelihood of dangerous or irresponsible sexual behavior.

I agree. I just believe sex is most satisfying when reserved for one person, one you have commited everything to, and love with all your heart. Because you are then blending more than bodies. You are blending your spirits. But if you've never tried it, you won't understand what I'm saying.
For me, the thought of being with anyone but my husband is absolutely horrifying. Like ripping my heart out.

 

[texan1]

I left my computer for a day and now y'all are talking about sex!

I think it makes a difference as to what church you go to. I personally don't have any problem with a church teaching that it's best to wait until marriage as long as there is a "because" to go with it. Like "it's best to wait because...sex puts you in a vulnerable place physically and emotionally and therefore you should save that special intimacy and explore it with someone who is comitted to you" or "you should wait because....it will prevent unwanted pregnancy and STDs", etc. I don't think that is a bad message. And beyond that, I don't think it's the church's job to teach people about sex.

BUT I think at some churches the "because" part of it tends to be "it's unclean" or "dirty" or "sinful", etc. And that shouldn't be part of the message imo. I think this especially true in the Catholic church (which is where the original poster received her "sex ed"). I think there is too much emphasis placed on virginity. Priests and nuns live a life of celibacy, so all of the adults who taught or preached to us were not sexually active. That sends a strong message that respectful, holy people do not have sex. And there is a lot of focus on the Virgin Mary. Mary doesn't seem to be mentioned much in the bible, and come to think of it I know very little about her except that she was never "made unclean" since she remained a virgin before and after Christ's birth. As a Catholic you get reminded of that almost every time you go to church. In addition, birth control, even when used by married couples, has always been looked down upon by the Catholic church. So in that respect I agree that the church can create a warped view of sex and make it difficult for someone to comfortably explore it, even within a marriage. But of course parents, friends, and the media can also impact a person's perception of all that...........

 

[doppelganger]

I agree. I just believe sex is most satisfying when reserved for one person, one you have commited everything to, and love with all your heart.

You do understand that other people might choose differently and find it just as personally satisfying? That your way works for you does not mean that it works for everybody.

Because you are then blending more than bodies. You are blending your spirits.

If that's what you perceive then yes, that's what you are doing. If it's not what you perceive, then no, it's not what you are doing.

But if you've never tried it, you won't understand what I'm saying.

I think you'd be surprised what I do and don't understand.

For me, the thought of being with anyone but my husband is absolutely horrifying. Like ripping my heart out.

I understand that. I'm the same way about my spouse. I try to avoid the habit of projecting that experience on others. Some people don't have the same experience - and amazingly - they're still happy and feel fulfilled!

 

[trinity2359]

A little OT here, but I think one of the things that makes it so hard to live up to the 'standards' of morality is that marriage (and adulthood) is well-delayed in today's society and sexual maturity is earlier. For example, just a few decades ago it was acceptable for high school grads to marry and with that education be able to support a spouse and family. Now, you practically need a graduate degree to support a single-earner household so if you want to be able to afford a family, you need to wait till your mid to late 20s before being married. A LOOOOONG to remain celebate while your hormones are starting earlier. When I was a tween (back in the day) the average age of menarch (first period) was almost 13. Now I think it is eleven and I read on a message board of a TEN year old - all thanks to our diet. So the hormones are starting earlier and have to be withstood longer. A young person could expect to wait 15 or so years before being able to act on their 'nature'. So I do admit that the challenge to stay celebate is a daunting one.
Just a thought....

 

[trinity2359]

For me, the thought of being with anyone but my husband is absolutely horrifying. Like ripping my heart out.

Again OT, forgive me, but the thought of being with Orlando Bloom is anything but horrifying

[my husband and I have what we call the 'celebrity loophole'.... ]