What Happens When You Die?

[atanu]

And you would make denial of linear existence?

And when you die?........

That means that Time is the ultimate God.

 

[Thief]

That means that Time is the ultimate God.

Time does not exist.
It is only a measurement.
A cognitive device created by Man to serve Man.

It has no substance...nor is it energy.
It is a quotient on a chalkboard.
Never will you find it anywhere else.

 

[Penumbra]

Time does not exist.
It is only a measurement.
A cognitive device created by Man to serve Man.

It has no substance...nor is it energy.
It is a quotient on a chalkboard.
Never will you find it anywhere else.

Spacetime can be curved by matter.

 

[Ivan-Michael]

Deep-pak Chop-ra, Opra?
Please, don't fall for Con artists, the guy is an actor.
Funny name,
There was once this actress on Big brother called Shilpa Sheti, hilarious.

 

[godnotgod]

Deep-pak Chop-ra, Opra?
Please, don't fall for Con artists, the guy is an actor.
Funny name,
There was once this actress on Big brother called Shilpa Sheti, hilarious.

I fail to see any 'con'. Chopra is not making any promises of eternal life in some heaven, using fear of death as leverage. He is saying the opposite: that he has no fear of death because there is no real self that dies. That's all. Too simple, I suppose.

 

[Ivan-Michael]

I fail to see any 'con'. Chopra is not making any promises of eternal life in some heaven, using fear of death as leverage. He is saying the opposite: that he has no fear of death because there is no real self that dies. That's all. Too simple, I suppose.

How would he know? who is better to know about you more than you?
He says lots of things I'm sure, he also sells books and makes loads of money saying nothing, Please.
The guy is a con artist.
No real self? What's that? What is self?
Words words words, all up in the air.

 

[godnotgod]

How would he know? who is better to know about you more than you?
He says lots of things I'm sure, he also sells books and makes loads of money saying nothing, Please.
The guy is a con artist.
No real self? What's that? What is self?
Words words words, all up in the air.

You've answered your own query: 'self' is nothing more than a word-concept, a self-created idea, born of mind, which is also self-created.

How would he know? How would anyone know? By going to have a look-see, that's how. If there is no self, who is it that lives? Who is it that dies?

 

[godnotgod]

Good post! I agree with you that everything in nature has a pattern.

It seems that everything in nature tends to follow a cyclic pattern. Also, everything that happens in nature, even those things that science can not explain, happens because it is natural for it to do so. There are many things in the natural world that are simply beyond any explanation, so people tend to attribute supernatural status to it...gods, demons, ghosts, etc... Honestly, even as an Animist, I do not believe in anything "supernatural", only natural forces. To me this whole life and death thing is merely another one of those natural patterns and it would only make sense that this too is a cyclic thing which means that life and then death is not an end, but rather a transformation and a continuation.

Science seems to have hard time explaining what "consciousness" is when really the answer is very simple and they already have that answer... "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." The same holds true for the energy/matter that makes up our brains. The billions of synapses that fire off in our brains that cause this "consciousness" is simply that...billions of complex actions and reactions. It is all just energy changing form, acting and reacting to other energy around it. Because this action/reaction is a part of what energy does, that which we call consciousness is never destroyed, even at "death", it only changes form, just in the same way that energy can neither be created, nor destroyed, it only changes form. Those actions/reactions do not "cease to exist", they merely change form.

Sorry if this sounds very simplistic, but that's just how I see it. If everything that exists is composed of energy, then there is truly no "supernatural", there is only the naturally existing energy of the Universe. We may not fully understand how all of it works and there may be forms of energy that science may have not discovered yet, but really, it all boils down to being energy, nothing more. I am not saying that ghosts don't exist, nor can I prove in any way that they do. What I am saying is that if they DO exist, then there is a perfectly natural explanation for it, we just haven't found it yet. If it turns out that ghosts do exist, then they exist because it is natural for them to, not "supernatural".
As you probably figured out already, my way of understanding physics is from a philosophical standpoint. Always sucked at the math part, lol.

The idea that synapses in the brain reach a critical mass to create conscious mind is only a hypothesis at this point. Essentially, it says that the brain creates consciousness. But we have hard evidence from Western studies done on long term meditators whose cerebral cortexes are actually larger than those of ordinary people, indicating that consciousness creates the brain.

In addition, the center of consciousness in the East is not considered to be in the brain, but rather in the hara, just below the navel. It is this center that martial artist watch in an opponent as it is the indicator of their first offensive move.

Your idea about consciousness being only the result of energy activity is just to note superficial characteristics. The Mozart Piano Concerto #21 is not the notes; nor can the music be found by dismantling the piano.

The brain is just a tool which consciousness uses to store control of repeated functions and memory recall so that it can focus on new current activity. Otherwise, those functions would get in the way especially when danger is present.

 

[Thief]

Spacetime can be curved by matter.

Time does not exist.

Gravity and matter fine.
The measure is interesting.....fine.
But always no more that a number.

Time does not exist.

And when you die?

 

[George-ananda]

Deep-pak Chop-ra, Opra?
Please, don't fall for Con artists, the guy is an actor.
Funny name,
There was once this actress on Big brother called Shilpa Sheti, hilarious.

I don't believe he's a con artist or an actor.

He's promoting a philosophy that goes back thousands of years that I personally believe.

Why such cynicism? Lets hear some intellectual criticism and we can debate that (instead of cheap hit-and-run techniques).

 

[Penumbra]

Time does not exist.

Gravity and matter fine.
The measure is interesting.....fine.
But always no more that a number.

Time does not exist.

And when you die?

Do you believe space exists? The space around you, in you, in the air, between us, between planets?

Or is it something that does not exist but that is considered just a measurement?

 

[godnotgod]

You didn't say much but you don't make much sense to me. (Probably my fault so I will try to state how I am interpreting this)

I am not the universe.

I have not always been here. I am not even sure the parts that make me a human... that is the star dust I am probably made from has always been here... really I don't think we know that. We have an age for the universe but what does that even mean.

I can assure you I was not always here... I can assure you I was born and though I have not died yet I will die eventually. All these words mean things. I don't remember is quite loaded based on your assumption I have always been and always will be right... What does "I" even mean and then in that sense what does remember mean according to your deathless and unborn example?

I am referring to an area of consciousness of which most of us are unaware. I am not referring to your temporal being, which is a manifestation of a consciousness that lies outside of space and time, and therefore is the consciousness that is Unborn and Deathless. Because this consciousness is outside of space and time, it has always existed. It is who you really are, and so you have always existed. It is the consciousness of the universe itself, making you the universe itself. But because of our social indoctrination since childhood, this kind of awareness is not the one we use on a daily basis. We follow the patterns we have been socialized with, which create our temporal identities, and which takes precedence over our true nature, becoming lost in Identification. We end up seeing ourselves as separate beings, apart from the universe. At some point, we become dissatisfied with this socially-concocted self, and seek a deeper happiness. This is where self-remembering comes in.

If you really want to know more about self-remembering your true nature, read on:

Self-remembering

"We are living, but we are not aware that we are or that we are living. There is no self-remembering. You are eating or you are taking a bath or you are taking a walk: you are not aware that you are while walking. Everything is, only you are not. The trees, the houses, the traffic, everything is. You are aware of everything around you, but you are not aware of your own being - that you are. You may be aware of the whole world, but if you are not aware of yourself that awareness is false. Why? Because your mind can reflect everything, but your mind cannot reflect you. If you are aware of yourself, then you have transcended the mind.

Your self-remembering cannot be reflected in your mind because you are behind the mind. It can reflect only things which are in front of it. You can just see others, but you cannot see yourself. Your eyes can see everyone, but your eyes cannot see themselves. If you want to see yourself you will need a mirror. Only in the mirror can you see yourself, but then you will have to stand in front of the mirror. If your mind is a mirror, it can reflect the whole world. It cannot reflect you because you cannot stand before it. You are always behind, hidden behind the mirror."

from a talk by Osho, continued here:

Self-remembering

 

[godnotgod]

Deep-pak Chop-ra, Opra?
Please, don't fall for Con artists, the guy is an actor.
Funny name,
There was once this actress on Big brother called Shilpa Sheti, hilarious.

If you are not a fake, and are sincere, really wanting to understand who and what you really are, then open your mind. Watch this video, then return here and tell us Chopra is a con. If you still believe that, then the problem is with you. You are blocking out your true nature with a suspicious mind, hardened by your continued clinging to the hostility of the world. Not everyone is out to get you. If that is your automatic reaction to everyone, then you will miss the message from those who really have something to teach us.

Chopra is a man for our time. He is trying to show you a way out of the human dilemma of suffering, and to really be free.

Are you listening, or just reacting?

Watch:

[youtube]IyMfuTzSDLw[/youtube]
Deepak Chopra - Way of the Wizard - YouTube

 

[Runewolf1973]

The idea that synapses in the brain reach a critical mass to create conscious mind is only a hypothesis at this point. Essentially, it says that the brain creates consciousness. But we have hard evidence from Western studies done on long term meditators whose cerebral cortexes are actually larger than those of ordinary people, indicating that consciousness creates the brain.

In addition, the center of consciousness in the East is not considered to be in the brain, but rather in the hara, just below the navel. It is this center that martial artist watch in an opponent as it is the indicator of their first offensive move.

Your idea about consciousness being only the result of energy activity is just to note superficial characteristics. The Mozart Piano Concerto #21 is not the notes; nor can the music be found by dismantling the piano.

The brain is just a tool which consciousness uses to store control of repeated functions and memory recall so that it can focus on new current activity. Otherwise, those functions would get in the way especially when danger is present.

I'll try to clarify... Sometimes I have a hard time explaining my thoughts in a way that makes sense to others.

This is just how I see it. I may be wrong, so take it with a grain of salt ...

Consciousness is not created in the brain. Consciousness is the action/reaction, cause and effect of energy. It is a part of energy. It is like the divine "spark" in all things that exist so to speak, yet it is natural, not supernatural. In the same way that energy can neither be created, nor destroyed, the same holds true for that "spark" or consciousness that is in energy. It can not be created, nor can it be destroyed, but it can change form/degrees/levels, etc...

This is where my Animism comes in...

As an animist, I believe that everything in a way has what could be called "spirit", but what I understand as being consciousness...even a rock or an atom. All energy is in fact "animated" by this force or "spirit" or "spark" that is consciousness. Abiogenesis is considered the scientific study of how animate forms (life) arose out of inanimate matter. As an animist, I know that ALL matter is in fact already "animate" because that is what energy does...it changes form and has actions and reactions...it is animated. Energy does not rest or it would not be energy, therefore how can it be inanimate? Energy/matter (even a single atom) is very much animated in the truest sense of the word. The way I see it, animate lifeforms arose because matter itself IS animate. All that was needed was time and the right conditions for life to appear and for that energy to become even more animated.

I think awareness is a bit different though. Awareness to me is like consciousness that has "evolved" into a much more complex form, a higher level. Take the simple actions/reactions of energy and over time let those actions/reactions evolve into much more complex actions/reactions (as in the brain/body regardless of where it stems from) and you get awareness at varying degrees. Do something that interrupts the workings of that system in your body/brain, and your level of awareness can be affected or change even though you are still conscious.

All you need for life to emerge is lots of time and the right conditions. When the conditions are just right, this in a way "opens things up" to allow that consciousness to grow and change in level, intensity, and complexity, eventually becoming what we know as life. The more these actions/reactions grow and change, the more "life" opens up and energy becomes even more "animate".

 

[godnotgod]

Do you believe space exists? The space around you, in you, in the air, between us, between planets?

Or is it something that does not exist but that is considered just a measurement?

"Swami Vivekananda said in one of his lectures that 'the Universe is the Absolute seen through the screen of time, space, and causation' (kala, desha, nimitta). He said that time, space, and causation are like the glass through which the Absolute is seen, and when It is seen on the lower side, It appears as the Universe. So not only is the Universe apparitional, it's the Absolute seen through time and space, and that allows us to understand why the physics of the Universe takes the form that we see.

Now Swami Vivekananda's statement that the Universe is the Absolute seen through the screen of time, space and causation allows us to get some interesting information, albeit in negative terms, about what he calls the Absolute.

Since it is not in time, it cannot be changing. Change takes place only in time.

And since it is not in space, it must be undivided, because division and separation occur only in space.

And since it is therefore one and undivided, it must also be infinite, since there is no "other" to limit it.

Now "changeless," "infinite," and "undivided" are negative statements, but they will suffice. We can trace the physics of our Universe from these three negative statements.

If we don't see the Absolute as what it is, we'll see it as something else*. If we don't see it as changeless, infinite, and undivided, we'll see it as changing, finite, and divided, since in this case there is no other else. There is no other way to mistake the changeless except as changing. So we see a Universe which is changing all the time, made of minuscule particles, and divided into atoms."

The Equations of Maya

*we mistakenly see a rope as a snake.

 

[Willamena]

I think he's just making things difficult...

I don't disagree.

 

[godnotgod]

I'll try to clarify... Sometimes I have a hard time explaining my thoughts in a way that makes sense to others.

This is just how I see it. I may be wrong, so take it with a grain of salt ...

Consciousness is not created in the brain. Consciousness is the action/reaction, cause and effect of energy. It is a part of energy. It is like the divine "spark" in all things that exist so to speak, yet it is natural, not supernatural. In the same way that energy can neither be created, nor destroyed, the same holds true for that "spark" or consciousness that is in energy. It can not be created, nor can it be destroyed, but it can change form/degrees/levels, etc...

This is where my Animism comes in...

As an animist, I believe that everything in a way has what could be called "spirit", but what I understand as being consciousness...even a rock or an atom. All energy is in fact "animated" by this force or "spirit" or "spark" that is consciousness. Abiogenesis is considered the scientific study of how animate forms (life) arose out of inanimate matter. As an animist, I know that ALL matter is in fact already "animate" because that is what energy does...it changes form and has actions and reactions...it is animated. Energy does not rest or it would not be energy, therefore how can it be inanimate? Energy/matter (even a single atom) is very much animated in the truest sense of the word. The way I see it, animate lifeforms arose because matter itself IS animate. All that was needed was time and the right conditions for life to appear.

I think awareness is a bit different though. Awareness to me is like consciousness that has "evolved" into a much more complex form. Take the simple actions/reactions of energy and over time let those actions/reactions evolve into much more complex actions/reactions (as in the brain/body regardless of where it stems from) and you get awareness at varying degrees. Do something that interrupts the workings of that system in your body/brain, and your level of awareness can be affected or change even though you are still conscious.

All you need for life to emerge is lots of time and the right conditions. When the conditions are just right, this in a way "opens things up" to allow that consciousness to grow and change in level, intensity, and complexity, eventually becoming what we know as life. The more these actions/reactions grow and change, the more "life" opens up and energy becomes even more "animate".

We know about the transformation of matter and energy, so we can see these two as duality. So what is behind the duality? What is the background to what we see in the foreground as energy and matter? I am suggesting that we can only know these two in terms of what they are not, and that is the background, the field against which they manifest, or out of which they emerge.

 

[Runewolf1973]

We know about the transformation of matter and energy, so we can see these two as duality. So what is behind the duality? What is the background to what we see in the foreground as energy and matter? I am suggesting that we can only know these two in terms of what they are not, and that is the background, the field against which they manifest, or out of which they emerge.

I don't see any duality.

 

[Ivan-Michael]

You've answered your own query: 'self' is nothing more than a word-concept, a self-created idea, born of mind, which is also self-created.

How would he know? How would anyone know? By going to have a look-see, that's how. If there is no self, who is it that lives? Who is it that dies?

Sorry, I'm done listening and hearing con artists, too many of them around, confusing others, feeding the world with their nonsense, concepts that mean nothing.
Reality is what counts.
The five fingers we have is reality, each finger corresponds to a sense, all the rest when it comes to philosophy is wishful thinking on our part, going around in circles chasing our own tails.
Our CHAOS becomes their ORDER. If our minds are full of 'chaos' they (chopra, the Emperor etc.) have us in their 'Order' like sheep to the slaughter.
Read the first few verses in Leviticus, see the difference between sacrificing the bull and the sheep.
All knowledge comes from the Emperor, the all seeing eye on the dollar bill is the 'eye' of the emperor, the bottom eye, see the picture of the pyramid with the Egyptian pharaoh sitting at the top and everyone else under standing and can only see the bottom EYE of the Emperor? conceptualise it and see Mr. Chop chop as one of the clowns.

 

[godnotgod]

Sorry, I'm done listening and hearing con artists, too many of them around, confusing others, feeding the world with their nonsense, concepts that mean nothing.
Reality is what counts.
The five fingers we have is reality, each finger corresponds to a sense, all the rest when it comes to philosophy is wishful thinking on our part, going around in circles chasing our own tails.
Our CHAOS becomes their ORDER. If our minds are full of 'chaos' they (chopra, the Emperor etc.) have us in their 'Order' like sheep to the slaughter.
Read the first few verses in Leviticus, see the difference between sacrificing the bull and the sheep.
All knowledge comes from the Emperor, the all seeing eye on the dollar bill is the 'eye' of the emperor, the bottom eye, see the picture of the pyramid with the Egyptian pharaoh sitting at the top and everyone else under standing and can only see the bottom EYE of the Emperor? conceptualise it and see Mr. Chop chop as one of the clowns.

Excuse me. Without the 'con artists', man is already confused. Suffering and ignorance are his lot. So how can he resolve this state?

Your five fingers did not originally exist, nor will they continue to exist.

We can be fooled by the five senses. Is that 'reality'?

These are characteristic of illusion. So how can you say they are 'real'?

Are you trying to con us?