What has gold to do with religion?!

[Palehorse]

What is your point? Please
Regards

Ancient peoples use to liquify gold properties and drink it. They believed gold brought them closer to their God.

 

[paarsurrey]

Ancient peoples use to liquify gold properties and drink it. They believed gold brought them closer to their God.

Kindly name the religion and quote from the founder of that religion to support your viewpoint. Please
Regards

 

[Palehorse]

Kindly name the religion and quote from the founder of that religion to support your viewpoint. Please
Regards

Wiki has alot of info on it...look under alchemy

History
Alchemy covers several philosophical traditions spanning some four millennia and three continents. These traditions' general penchant for cryptic and symbolic language makes it hard to trace their mutual influences and "genetic" relationships. One can distinguish at least three major strands, which appear to be largely independent, at least in their earlier stages: Chinese alchemy, centered in China and its zone of cultural influence; Indian alchemy, centered on the Indian subcontinent; and Western alchemy, which occurred around the Mediterranean and whose center has shifted over the millennia from Greco-Roman Egypt, to the Islamic world, and finally medieval Europe. Chinese alchemy was closely connected to Taoism and Indian alchemy with the Dharmic faiths, whereas Western alchemy developed its own philosophical system that was largely independent of, but influenced by, various Western religions. It is still an open question whether these three strands share a common origin, or to what extent they influenced each other.

 

[psychoslice]

I don't agree with you.
Buddha left all worldly signs of richness and the enlightenment he got does not mention of gold . Right?
Regards

Alchemy was a part of the mystics, maybe not the Buddha, he didn't know everything, he only knew what he knew.

 

[paarsurrey]

Wiki has alot of info on it...look under alchemy

History
Alchemy covers several philosophical traditions spanning some four millennia and three continents. These traditions' general penchant for cryptic and symbolic language makes it hard to trace their mutual influences and "genetic" relationships. One can distinguish at least three major strands, which appear to be largely independent, at least in their earlier stages: Chinese alchemy, centered in China and its zone of cultural influence; Indian alchemy, centered on the Indian subcontinent; and Western alchemy, which occurred around the Mediterranean and whose center has shifted over the millennia from Greco-Roman Egypt, to the Islamic world, and finally medieval Europe. Chinese alchemy was closely connected to Taoism and Indian alchemy with the Dharmic faiths, whereas Western alchemy developed its own philosophical system that was largely independent of, but influenced by, various Western religions. It is still an open question whether these three strands share a common origin, or to what extent they influenced each other.

None of them was a founder of a religion, after the founders, their followers were led astray.
Regards

 

[Palehorse]

None of them was a founder of a religion, after the founders, their followers were led astray.
Regards

Agree...

 

[paarsurrey]

Buddha spoke struggling against mara:
"The night before the Buddha attained final enlightenment, Mara was there to tempt him. Buddha was tempted by Mara. Mara is the tempter. He always wanted the Buddha to be a politician, to be a king, or a president, or a foreign minister, or running a business, having a lot of money, a lot of beautiful women; and he was always trying to tempt the Buddha so that Buddha would go into these directions. That is Mara."
http://plumvillage.org/transcriptions/mara-and-the-buddha-embracing-our-suffering/
It is the same thing Quran mentions Joseph saying about ammara :

[12:54] ‘And I do not hold my own self to be free from weakness; for, the soul is surely prone to enjoin evil, save that whereon my Lord has mercy. Surely, my Lord is Most Forgiving, Merciful.’
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=12&verse=53

One may also like to refresh with #94.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Yet your own God YhWh values gold a lot it seems.
http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/what-has-gold-to-do-with-religion.188007/page-4#post-4777916
Exodus 35:4-5 - Moses said to the whole Israelite community, “This is what the Lord has commanded: From what you have, take an offering for the Lord. Everyone who is willing is to bring to the Lord an offering of gold, silver and bronze."
Exodus 35:30-33 - Then Moses said to the Israelites, “See, the Lord has chosen Bezalel son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, and he has filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom, with understanding, with knowledge and with all kinds of skills to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood and to engage in all kinds of artistic crafts.
Exodus 36:13 - Then they made fifty gold clasps and used them to fasten the two sets of curtains together so that the tabernacle was a unit.
Exodus 37:1-9 - Bezalel made the ark of acacia wood—two and a half cubits long, a cubit and a half wide, and a cubit and a half high. He overlaid it with pure gold, both inside and out, and made a gold molding around it. He cast four gold rings for it and fastened them to its four feet, with two rings on one side and two rings on the other. Then he made poles of acacia wood and overlaid them with gold. And he inserted the poles into the rings on the sides of the ark to carry it. He made the atonement cover of pure gold—two and a half cubits long and a cubit and a half wide. Then he made two out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. He made one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; at the two ends he made them of one piece with the cover. The cherubim had their wings spread upward, the cover with them. The cherubim faced each other, looking toward the cover.
Exodus 39:42-43 - The Israelites had done all the work just as the Lord had commanded Moses. Moses inspected the work and saw that they had done it just as the Lord had commanded. So Moses blessed them.
Boy. YhWh (Allah) sure likes gold!

Here, the narratives of Exodus, the narrators/scribes/clergy are at work. Moses never authored Exodus. Did he?

Book of Exodus

Jewish and Christian tradition viewed Moses as the author of Exodus and the entire Pentateuch, but by the end of the 19th century the increasing awareness of the discrepancies, inconsistencies, repetitions and other features of the Pentateuch had led scholars to abandon this idea.[8]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Exodus
8. Meyers, p. 16.​

Regards

 

[sayak83]

Here, the narratives of Exodus, the narrators/scribes/clergy are at work. Moses never authored Exodus. Did he?

Book of Exodus

Jewish and Christian tradition viewed Moses as the author of Exodus and the entire Pentateuch, but by the end of the 19th century the increasing awareness of the discrepancies, inconsistencies, repetitions and other features of the Pentateuch had led scholars to abandon this idea.[8]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Exodus
8. Meyers, p. 16.​

Regards

The Bible is no less or no more man-made than the Koran, and it would be very easy for me to cite such scholarly works showing that the Koran too is not a revelation if I search the internet. But that is irrelevant to the OP. You asked "What has gold to do with religion?" and my answer is that God YhWh likes it a lot and specifically asks his first revelatory Words (the covenant) to be encased in it in accordance with what is considered a holy and revealed book by Christians and Jews (and also many Muslims).

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

One may also like to refresh with #94.

If gold is one of the evils to which the Quran verse you quoted is referring, how do you explain gold on mosques like these - some of which are Ahmadi, one of which is the second holiest site in Islam?

What has gold to do with religion?

Please.
Regards.

 

[paarsurrey]

The Bible is no less or no more man-made than the Koran, and it would be very easy for me to cite such scholarly works showing that the Koran too is not a revelation if I search the internet. But that is irrelevant to the OP. You asked "What has gold to do with religion?" and my answer is that God YhWh likes it a lot and specifically asks his first revelatory Words (the covenant) to be encased in it in accordance with what is considered a holy and revealed book by Christians and Jews (and also many Muslims).

I don't agree with you.
Regards

 

[sayak83]

I don't agree with you.
Regards

I don't care for you to agree with me.
Regards.

 

[von bek]

If gold is one of the evils to which the Quran verse you quoted is referring, how do you explain gold on mosques like these - some of which are Ahmadi, one of which is the second holiest site in Islam?

The refusal to engage with this question tells me everything I need to know about this thread.

 

[paarsurrey]

I don't care for you to agree with me.
Regards.

I do care about you that you agree with me. I respect every human being just because they are fellow human beings.
The founders of revealed religions like Buddha, Krishna,Moses, Zoroaster,Jesus endorse that gold has nothing to do with religion or spirituality, hence,none of them amassed any gold or instructed to amass gold for spiritual progress.
Anybody who disagree kindly quote from them.Right?
Please
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

I quote from Buddha as given in Dhammapada, the Buddhist scripture:

Verse 186:
Not by a shower of coins can sensual desires be satiated;
sensual desires give little pleasure and
are fraught with evil consequences (dukkha).​

Regards

 

[sayak83]

I do care about you that you agree with me. I respect every human being just because they are fellow human beings.
The founders of revealed religions like Buddha, Krishna,Moses, Zoroaster,Jesus endorse that gold has nothing to do with religion or spirituality, hence,none of them amassed any gold or instructed to amass gold for spiritual progress.
Anybody who disagree kindly quote from them.Right?
Please
Regards

Well, when I (more specifically a previous poster, kudos to him) quoted scripture thought by 2 billion people to be revelation of God (whom you worship too) to Moses, you quoted studies that said they are not authentic! Duh. I can quote studies showing that each and every religion is just man made fantasies and not authentic. Basically your tack is this. If someone does provide a refutation, get out of the jam by quoting one of those studies that say religions are man made constructs only by selectively applying it to that scripture. Hypocrisy much?

There are about a billion verses in the Vedas (one of the oldest revealed scripture in the world) telling that Gods give their worshipers lots and lots of wealth and property. If Rig Veda is not Hinduism nothing is. (Just like OT Moses and arc of the covenant is for Abrahamics). This is to Indra,King of the Gods.

01-010] HYMN X. Indra.

1 THE chanters hymn thee, they who say the word of praise magnify thee. The priests have raised thee up on high, O Satakratu, like a pole.
2 As up he clomb from ridge to ridge and looked upon the toilsome task, Indra observes this wish of his, and the Rain hastens with his troop.
3 Harness thy pair of strong bay steeds, long-maned, whose bodies fill the girths, And, Indra, Soma-drinker, come to listen to our songs of praise.
4 Come hither, answer thou the song, sing in approval, cry aloud. Good Indra, make our prayer succeed, and prosper this our sacrifice.
5 To Indra must a laud be said, to strengthen him who freely gives, That Sakra may take pleasure in our friendship and drink-offerings.
6 Him, him we seek for friendship, him for riches and heroic might. For Indra, he is Sakra, he shall aid us while he gives us wealth.
7 Easy to turn and drive away, Indra, is spoil bestowed by thee. Unclose the stable of the kine, and give us wealth O Thunder-armed
8 The heaven and earth contain thee not, together, in thy wrathful mood. Win us the waters of the sky, and send us kine abundantly.
9 Hear, thou whose ear is quick, my call; take to thee readily my songs O Indra, let this laud of mine come nearer even than thy friend.
10 We know thee mightiest of all, in battles hearer of our cry. Of thee most mighty we invoke the aid that giveth thousandfold.
11 O Indra, Son of Kusika, drink our libation with delight. Prolong our life anew, and cause the seer to win a thousand gifts.
12 Lover of song, may these our songs on every side encompass thee: Strengthening thee of lengthened life, may they be dear delights to thee

 

[paarsurrey]

Well, when I (more specifically a previous poster, kudos to him) quoted scripture thought by 2 billion people to be revelation of God (whom you worship too) to Moses, you quoted studies that said they are not authentic! Duh. I can quote studies showing that each and every religion is just man made fantasies and not authentic. Basically your tack is this. If someone does provide a refutation, get out of the jam by quoting one of those studies that say religions are man made constructs only by selectively applying it to that scripture. Hypocrisy much?

There are about a billion verses in the Vedas (one of the oldest revealed scripture in the world) telling that Gods give their worshipers lots and lots of wealth and property. If Rig Veda is not Hinduism nothing is. (Just like OT Moses and arc of the covenant is for Abrahamics). This is to Indra,King of the Gods.

01-010] HYMN X. Indra.

1 THE chanters hymn thee, they who say the word of praise magnify thee. The priests have raised thee up on high, O Satakratu, like a pole.
2 As up he clomb from ridge to ridge and looked upon the toilsome task, Indra observes this wish of his, and the Rain hastens with his troop.
3 Harness thy pair of strong bay steeds, long-maned, whose bodies fill the girths, And, Indra, Soma-drinker, come to listen to our songs of praise.
4 Come hither, answer thou the song, sing in approval, cry aloud. Good Indra, make our prayer succeed, and prosper this our sacrifice.
5 To Indra must a laud be said, to strengthen him who freely gives, That Sakra may take pleasure in our friendship and drink-offerings.
6 Him, him we seek for friendship, him for riches and heroic might. For Indra, he is Sakra, he shall aid us while he gives us wealth.
7 Easy to turn and drive away, Indra, is spoil bestowed by thee. Unclose the stable of the kine, and give us wealth O Thunder-armed
8 The heaven and earth contain thee not, together, in thy wrathful mood. Win us the waters of the sky, and send us kine abundantly.
9 Hear, thou whose ear is quick, my call; take to thee readily my songs O Indra, let this laud of mine come nearer even than thy friend.
10 We know thee mightiest of all, in battles hearer of our cry. Of thee most mighty we invoke the aid that giveth thousandfold.
11 O Indra, Son of Kusika, drink our libation with delight. Prolong our life anew, and cause the seer to win a thousand gifts.
12 Lover of song, may these our songs on every side encompass thee: Strengthening thee of lengthened life, may they be dear delights to thee

Who wrote Vedas? None of the founders of a revealed religion did write them. Please
Do you believe in Vedas? Please
Regards

 

[sayak83]

Who wrote Vedas? None of the founders of a revealed religion did write them. Please
Do you believe in Vedas? Please
Regards

Vedas is considered to be revealed by 1 billion Hindus...in fact to Hindus, its status as revealed is far more secure than the status of Gita or any later Hindu scripture..which are considered commentaries on the primary revelation Vedas.

So now we have 3 billion people (Christian, Hindus and Jews) whose revealed scripture clearly shows that their God(s) has no objection to wealth and gold. Again you asked, I answered.

What does it have to do with me? I am primarily in the analytical and philosophical traditions of Hinduism (a important and influential but a minority branch) who do not consider the revelations of any religion whatsoever to be ontologically special. Their specialness lies in the ideas and concepts they convey rather than who heard what from whom. I am completely neutral about the association and uses of gold in religious traditions, or in other life activities. Nyaya-Vaisesika does not care at all.

 

[paarsurrey]

Vedas is considered to be revealed by 1 billion Hindus...in fact to Hindus, its status as revealed is far more secure than the status of Gita or any later Hindu scripture..which are considered commentaries on the primary revelation Vedas.
So now we have 3 billion people (Christian, Hindus and Jews) whose revealed scripture clearly shows that their God(s) has no objection to wealth and gold. Again you asked, I answered.
What does it have to do with me? I am primarily in the analytical and philosophical traditions of Hinduism (a important and influential but a minority branch) who do not consider the revelations of any religion whatsoever to be ontologically special. Their specialness lies in the ideas and concepts they convey rather than who heard what from whom. I am completely neutral about the association and uses of gold in religious traditions, or in other life activities. Nyaya-Vaisesika does not care at all.

In other words Vedas were revealed to none, if they cannot name one person to whom a Veda was revealed. It has no founder. Please
Regards

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

In other words Vedas were revealed to none, if they cannot name one person to whom a Veda was revealed. It has no founder. Please
Regards

Well yeah, Hinduism isn't a revealed religion. So you can stop being so obsessed about how its followers worship or how they build their temples - unless you have an ulterior motive with this thread - particularly when you've got no room to criticise others for using gold in their sacred structures.