AnthonyGiarrusso
Member
What if it was created by God to evolve? Does this mean we are all correct?
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What if it was created by God to evolve?
- Thread starter AnthonyGiarrusso
- Start date
PoetPhilosopher
Veteran Member
If I'm understanding you correctly... the concept is called theistic evolution.
AnthonyGiarrusso
Member
What do you think? Is it possible or maybe something else?
PoetPhilosopher
Veteran Member
I think theistic evolution is a better alternative for religious people than Creationism.
That being said, I still don't see it as being a 100% completely perfect concept, either. I prefer just straight evolution, no theistic portion to it.
I'm always correct as far as you know.
The evolution of life is not the creation of life.
The evidence supports the theory of evolution. To deny that is to engage in behavior that I see as inconsistent to Christians professed qualities.
Something else? Ghosts? Toasters?
Of course it is possible. Many things are possible.
Theistic evolution is a means that some use to accept the evidence of reality and maintain their faith.
Do you think of the natural world as God's creation? If so, isn't the evidence of the natural world God's work? How do you contend with the evidence of the world around us contradicting scripture or vice versa?
This sounds like a deist proposition; God created the laws and constants of physics, then let the universe unfold on its own, with no miraculous interference needed.
Sounds like a facile apologia for a completely unevidenced god. Why would such an idea occur to anyone if God's been hiding in the shadows, inactive, all these æons?
Sounds like a facile apologia for a completely unevidenced god. Why would such an idea occur to anyone if God's been hiding in the shadows, inactive, all these æons?
The big problem for you who believe in a God deliberately creating things via evolution is: why cancer? Why genetic defects?
To my mind believers should avoid this approach to get their God off the hook for these observations which would be crimes if a human did it. Can you imagine a doctor doing things to pregnant mothers that cuased their children to have cancer? But it's OK that God does it?
Who is "we"?
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
What if the universe and everything it contains, along with our memories of having lived our entire lives, was created Last Thursday by the invisible extra-dimensional unicorn?
"what if" questions are useless unless you have at least a spec of evidence to justify the question.
You believe this, too?
I no longer feel alone with the world.
Wait... last Thursday?
Never mind. I thought you meant yesterday.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
If there was any manipulation, I would first think advanced aliens, before I would think of any type of supernatural deity
Brian2
Veteran Member
In the material universe things grow old and wear out and problems in mechanisms multiply.
Genes have many self protecting and repair mechanisms slow the process down but I would say that God created the universe to wear out and created life to wear out and eventually die. This is what He wanted and how He set it all up. He knew humans would bring sin and death upon themselves and so made us to eventually die unless we ate of the tree of life.
Believers should not avoid any "approach" that is the truth, and I don't see that God needs to be got off any hooks.
Skeptics make up many things about God to make God look bad and they usually carry errors of thinking with them.
Many times the error is to depict God as no more than a human with super powers.
The Bible makes has no qualms in saying that God not only created the universe and all life but that God also brings causes of death and suffering to humans and animals. God also has made us to wear out.
And yes it is OK that God has done these things and the analogy of a doctor doing it to pregnant mothers is not a good analogy and is based on not believing in the Bible God and not seeing who and what He is, and not believing that God has done everything for long term good.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
The problem with that "logic" in context of "theistic evolution" is that these very mechanisms are essential to the evolutionary process.
Yes, DNA has self-protecting and repair mechanisms. The fact that they at times fail at just that, is what makes it possible for mutations to pass through and be inherited by the next generation. This is the very reason why genetic variation exists and why evolution is überhaupt possible in the first place.
Without this, reproduction would be like cloning.
No need to make things up. The horrible character and behaviour of the bible god is right there in the bible.
Homophobic. Racist. Genocidal & infanticidal maniac. Petty. Jealous. Narcistic. Selfish. Insecure. Slavery enabler. Etc.
Immoral to boot.
Why? "Might makes right"?
We are with 8 billion people on this planet. As a direct result, we consume more natural resources in a year that the earth can provide. This is unsustainable.
So a bunch of doctor who mass murder pregnant women could be said to be doing that for "long term good".
Committing several genocides in several corners of the world could be said to be for "long term good".
The Chinese are the biggest polluters of the planet in terms of carbon emissions. They are also with more then a billion. If we would annihilate them all, we would radically reduce carbon emission and free up loads of natural resources for the rest of the population and thereby be in a much better position to secure humanity's future on this planet. "long term good".
I hope you see how that argument is assanine.
Brian2
Veteran Member
What logic? I did not make an argument.
You aren't making any sense imo. Maybe if you give an answer when I end a line of thought, then you might be answering what I wrote.
I see that you also make the error of seeing God as like a human with super powers, and have no belief in the whole story of what God is doing in making a bad situation into a good one in the end.
Just as your God designed, right?
Believers can't escape their creator god being responsible for all that exists, including the bad stuff.
I have been asking believers why God did it this way, and not some less painful way, and you guys are stumped.
What we observe of nature makes more sense that it's godless. Believers cause yourselves problems by trying to make the Abrahamic God seem relevant. Look what you write here, your God is responsible for children who develop cancer, and suffer and die, unless they survive after painful treatment. I ask why God does this, and believers can't explain the love and wisdom of their God.
Of course you don't. You want what you want to believe even if it doesn't make sense. But why so many want to be lost in this headful of confusion is beyond me. You have the power to reject ideas and shape your God to fit facts and observations, but you clearly haven't. You hold an old model that doesn't fit in with facts and reason.
False accusation. We use your own claims and facts, and make assessments. What you might be feeling is the cognitive dissonance that critical thinkers cause believers as the inconsistency of belief to fact is exposed. Of course you will blame skeptics, you don't want to admit the error is your beliefs.
I wonder where believers got that idea from. Man made in God's image, perhaps?
And you folks who interpret this literally need to deal with how these stroies relate to reality, and you can't. You have no choice but to believe these irrational ideas, and then justify the horrors of nature. According to your beliefs your God actually causes the cancers in little children. How do you justify this? You can't have it both ways, either your God is in charge, or it isn't. When I hear believers explain why a child died, and they answer "God had a plan". Really, so the killing was deliberate. Why is killing children a plan God thinks is good and loving?
Christians have trapped themselves with this rigid belief, and the only way to live in your illusory world that ignores these troubling facts is to avoid online debate. Critical thinkers will continue to pressure Christians on their beliefs, and we will see if Christians learn anything, or sink deeper into denial.
This is all excusing God for what you believe God is. It's OK for God to kill a child, but not humans. If you can't hold your God to the same moral standard as mere mortals then it is evil.
This would not translate to 'we are all correct.' The view of accepting the science of evolution and cosmology likely represents the Theistic Evolutionists (TE), but most definitely not the Fundamentalist view of Creation. Even TE believers vary in the degree of their acceptance of evolution
From the Baha'i perspective, there is the concept of harmony between science and religion. Where the scientific view describes the nature of our physical existence as God Created it. The Philosophy of Methodological Naturalism cannot be falsified and is neutral to the subjective religious beliefs or the existence of God.
OK, but poor wording in respect to a creator God,
Read the Genesis story of Adam and Eve more fully and you will find it severely problematic concerning how it describes the faulty perfect Creation with no death and suffering and dumped the responsibility of ALL the suffering and death in the world on the failings of fallible human beings God Created.
. . . not avoid any "approach" that is the truth needs further explanation. The reality of the Universal God beyond any particular ancient tribal view does not need to get off any hooks.
Skeptics need not make up things because the text of the OT creates it own problems.
The ancient tribal view of God or Gods often depicts God as a human 'Lord' with super powers and makes mistakes
. . . and blames it on the fallible humans Adam and Eve.
OK, but only after the Fall and the Original Sin.
As far as the view of the ancient tribal text the long-term good is questionable.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Ever own a Ford?
That is only issue if you expect mythical and contradictory perfection, not just some creator.