dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
What if it was created by God to evolve? Does this mean we are all correct?
but... but.... I came here to have an argument. ~shameless monty python reference~
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What if it was created by God to evolve? Does this mean we are all correct?
What do you think? Is it possible or maybe something else?
The big problem for you who believe in a God deliberately creating things via evolution is: why cancer? Why genetic defects?
What if it was created by God to evolve? Does this mean we are all correct?
If I'm understanding you correctly... the concept is called theistic evolution.
What do you think? Is it possible or maybe something else?
No you didn't.but... but.... I came here to have an argument. ~shameless monty python reference~
Not necessarily and I'm not going to get into this too deeply, but cancer and genetic defects could be however the consequence of what is considered imperfection. These are not something God ordained personally for every individual. God allows but does not personally cause defects. I'm not getting into this too deeply, but things went off kilter when God ordered that Adam and Eve would get the death penalty. It appears their genes were not considered as they were originally, He as you know, prevented them from getting to the Tree of Life. No videos were taken of their bodies and inner workings of their cells and their offspring before and after.Chaos is required for a material world to exist. Cancer and genetic defects are a consequence of that.
Have a good one.
No, it does not.What if it was created by God to evolve? Does this mean we are all correct?
Chaos is required for a material world to exist. Cancer and genetic defects are a consequence of that.
InB4: yes God is still absolutely omnipotent. But God is not ONLY omnipotent. God has other qualities which produce the necessity for chaos in the material world. If God is absolutely perfect and completely unique, then nothing else will be absolutely perfect. Therefore anything which God creates will be imperfect, and that is why chaos is necessary in the material world.
All of this presumes God exists and creates per the question you asked.
Just as your God designed, right?
Believers can't escape their creator god being responsible for all that exists, including the bad stuff.
I have been asking believers why God did it this way, and not some less painful way, and you guys are stumped.
What we observe of nature makes more sense that it's godless. Believers cause yourselves problems by trying to make the Abrahamic God seem relevant. Look what you write here, your God is responsible for children who develop cancer, and suffer and die, unless they survive after painful treatment. I ask why God does this, and believers can't explain the love and wisdom of their God.
Of course you don't. You want what you want to believe even if it doesn't make sense. But why so many want to be lost in this headful of confusion is beyond me. You have the power to reject ideas and shape your God to fit facts and observations, but you clearly haven't. You hold an old model that doesn't fit in with facts and reason.
I wonder where believers got that idea from. Man made in God's image, perhaps?
And you folks who interpret this literally need to deal with how these stroies relate to reality, and you can't. You have no choice but to believe these irrational ideas, and then justify the horrors of nature. According to your beliefs your God actually causes the cancers in little children. How do you justify this? You can't have it both ways, either your God is in charge, or it isn't. When I hear believers explain why a child died, and they answer "God had a plan". Really, so the killing was deliberate. Why is killing children a plan God thinks is good and loving?
Christians have trapped themselves with this rigid belief, and the only way to live in your illusory world that ignores these troubling facts is to avoid online debate. Critical thinkers will continue to pressure Christians on their beliefs, and we will see if Christians learn anything, or sink deeper into denial.
This is all excusing God for what you believe God is. It's OK for God to kill a child, but not humans. If you can't hold your God to the same moral standard as mere mortals then it is evil.
Yes just as God designed, right.
God is responsible for all that exists, but God is not responsible for how angels and humans have behaved and how we have used and abused the good things He has made.
Trusting God means just that, trusting Him even if there are things in life we don't like and which we cannot explain.
But God is even more relevant when God has promised a future paradise without evil and suffering. There is no promise of a perfect life for anyone in this life, and for most people it is far from that. Without the promises of God life is sh*t and then we die, and that's it.
If I think something is fact then I want the Bible to not be wrong about it. It's usually a matter of interpretation. But it is hard to deny the truth and it can get to the stage of one "truth" verses a contradictory "truth" and there can be times of having a head full of confusion. Nobody wants that but imo the best outcome is when faith wins out and God gives a satisfying answer to the confusion.
Not "God made in man's image".
Gotta blame someone and so blame God,,,,,,,,,,,,, not for killing little children with cancer but for allowing little children to die from cancer.
It's just as hard or even harder for a believer to accept and go through all the suffering.
We also want to blame God and do blame God many times. It's a bit like Job blaming God for all his suffering when he knew he did not deserve it.
Hopefully even from there God can give us inner peace and wisdom to come through it all and still have faith or to come back to the source of comfort.
The best thing to do is to open our eyes to the truth and to the errors in the arguments of the skeptics. Faithless thinking does not see the bigger picture which God has presented to us and seems to want to live in denial and hopelessness, and to say that is the best way to live.
You are accusing God of killing children and I accuse God of allowing children to suffer and die, and with the bigger picture in sight,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, if you like I will call it God's 'plan' to redeem the world from the state it has gotten itself into.
Read the Genesis story of Adam and Eve more fully and you will find it severely problematic concerning how it describes the faulty perfect Creation with no death and suffering and dumped the responsibility of ALL the suffering and death in the world on the failings of fallible human beings God Created.
Skeptics need not make up things because the text of the OT creates it own problems.
The ancient tribal view of God or Gods often depicts God as a human 'Lord' with super powers and makes mistakes
OK, but only after the Fall and the Original Sin.
As far as the view of the ancient tribal text the long-term good is questionable.
God as Creator is responsible for any state the world has gotten into, not fallible humans.
Why not? Don't you think God could make humans with naturally high maturity and vastly better behaved? Or does God want many humans to cause trouble for the rest, but for what reason? How about God not creating humans with mental illness? What purpose does mental illness serve humanity? This is your God, you tell me. You are very good at trying to make excuses for God, but God is in control of everything that exists, including mature and mentally stable humans, or he isn't.Yes just as God designed, right.
God is responsible for all that exists, but God is not responsible for how angels and humans have behaved and how we have used and abused the good things He has made.
Oddly believers can't explain why they believe in a God. Why aren't you a Hindu? Or Muslim? What you think you "trust" about a God depends what you were told to believe. All quite arbitrary.Trusting God means just that, trusting Him even if there are things in life we don't like and which we cannot explain.
So you are asserting that atheists' lives are sh*t?But God is even more relevant when God has promised a future paradise without evil and suffering. There is no promise of a perfect life for anyone in this life, and for most people it is far from that. Without the promises of God life is sh*t and then we die, and that's it.
That's called confirmation bias. Facts are demonstrable, not things we just decide are facts so we can justify belief. If you want something in the Bible to be true you will use non-reasoning and no facts, and find out you are correct anyway. Critical thinkers avoid this completely because they follow facts to sound conclusions.If I think something is fact then I want the Bible to not be wrong about it.
Religion is non-factual for a reason. Believers don't use reason to make their conclusions for a reason. That is why believers claim faith as their means to decide what is true. The dilemma is that faith is unreliable and arbitrary. So believers don't seek truth, they find dogma.It's usually a matter of interpretation. But it is hard to deny the truth and it can get to the stage of one "truth" verses a contradictory "truth" and there can be times of having a head full of confusion. Nobody wants that but imo the best outcome is when faith wins out and God gives a satisfying answer to the confusion.
Given the anthropomorphism in the Bible we can see that God was created in man's image. God is a he, right? And that tradition of religion came from a patriarchical system. Not a big surprise that the one true God ended up as male. Of course Yahweh began as part of a polytheistic system before the Hebrews.Not "God made in man's image".
Well you are putting God on top, and the buck stops there. Don't like your God being held accountable for everything? Don't make it the creator of everything.Gotta blame someone and so blame God,,,,,,,,,,,,,
They were created with the genes that cause the cancer, so your God is on the hook. Sorry. It's your claim that your God is the creator, deal with it.not for killing little children with cancer but for allowing little children to die from cancer.
Believers have the option to abandon irrational belief.It's just as hard or even harder for a believer to accept and go through all the suffering.
God was to blame. These OT stories no doubt confuse the Christian who is told God is loving.We also want to blame God and do blame God many times. It's a bit like Job blaming God for all his suffering when he knew he did not deserve it.
I suggest self-reliance rather than gambling on a God that isn't likely to exist as you imagine it.Hopefully even from there God can give us inner peace and wisdom to come through it all and still have faith or to come back to the source of comfort.
This is an emotional appeal, not true statements. Notice you offer not a single error in the arguments of skeptics. Nor do you explain how Faithful thinking is reliable, factual, and true, you only make a false criticism. And what makes your assessment of my life being in denial and hopless? Do you not see how desperate and angry you sound? I don't care what you believe, where are your facts and coherent argument that inform us that you are correct in your beliefs?The best thing to do is to open our eyes to the truth and to the errors in the arguments of the skeptics. Faithless thinking does not see the bigger picture which God has presented to us and seems to want to live in denial and hopelessness, and to say that is the best way to live.
I'm using your claims about God to make sense of what we observe around us. If that disturbs you then create a better God that isn't responsible for creating what exists, and how things are.You are accusing God of killing children and I accuse God of allowing children to suffer and die, and with the bigger picture in sight
Go ahead. But use facts, and exlpain how what you claim makes sense in reality.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, if you like I will call it God's 'plan' to redeem the world from the state it has gotten itself into.
Yes just as God designed, right.
God is responsible for all that exists, but God is not responsible for how angels and humans have behaved and how we have used and abused the good things He has made.
Trusting God means just that, trusting Him even if there are things in life we don't like and which we cannot explain.
But God is even more relevant when God has promised a future paradise without evil and suffering. There is no promise of a perfect life for anyone in this life, and for most people it is far from that. Without the promises of God life is sh*t and then we die, and that's it.
If I think something is fact then I want the Bible to not be wrong about it. It's usually a matter of interpretation. But it is hard to deny the truth and it can get to the stage of one "truth" verses a contradictory "truth" and there can be times of having a head full of confusion. Nobody wants that but imo the best outcome is when faith wins out and God gives a satisfying answer to the confusion.
Not "God made in man's image".
Gotta blame someone and so blame God,,,,,,,,,,,,, not for killing little children with cancer but for allowing little children to die from cancer.
It's just as hard or even harder for a believer to accept and go through all the suffering.
We also want to blame God and do blame God many times. It's a bit like Job blaming God for all his suffering when he knew he did not deserve it.
Hopefully even from there God can give us inner peace and wisdom to come through it all and still have faith or to come back to the source of comfort.
The best thing to do is to open our eyes to the truth and to the errors in the arguments of the skeptics. Faithless thinking does not see the bigger picture which God has presented to us and seems to want to live in denial and hopelessness, and to say that is the best way to live.
You are accusing God of killing children and I accuse God of allowing children to suffer and die, and with the bigger picture in sight,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, if you like I will call it God's 'plan' to redeem the world from the state it has gotten itself into.
Around 1980 not last Thursday and by God and the chosen one not by a unicorn.What if the universe and everything it contains, along with our memories of having lived our entire lives, was created Last Thursday by the invisible extra-dimensional unicorn?
"what if" questions are useless unless you have at least a spec of evidence to justify the question.
You're just preaching -- from an unsupported premise that God exists.Yes just as God designed, right.
God is responsible for all that exists, but God is not responsible for how angels and humans have behaved and how we have used and abused the good things He has made.
What are some of these errors?The best thing to do is to open our eyes to the truth and to the errors in the arguments of the skeptics. Faithless thinking does not see the bigger picture which God has presented to us and seems to want to live in denial and hopelessness, and to say that is the best way to live.
The Bible quite clearly and explicitly prescribes numerous actions that almost noöne would consider remotely just. I see no room for interpretation.You are accusing God of killing children and I accuse God of allowing children to suffer and die, and with the bigger picture in sight,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, if you like I will call it God's 'plan' to redeem the world from the state it has gotten itself into.
Not a sparrow falls, but by His leave.God is a Creator, not an engineer that 'designs' things.
God as Creator is responsible for any state the world has gotten into, not fallible humans.
Before reïterating, explaining or interpreting a mythology, shouldn't the reality of the myth be established?Adam and Eve only get judged for their sins. They had no idea what their sins would lead to and we also don't see what our sins can and have led to. They just saw something they wanted and believed the lies more than they believed God it seems.
That is not necessarily an ancient tribal view, but is a mistaken view that many people these days see when they read the Bible.
No I think we were always made to wear out. We are made of dust after all. It is just that after the fall, God refused to stop that wearing out process. The way to the Tree of Life was blocked.
God in Gen 3 says that someone was coming to crush the head of the serpent. That is long term, but I suppose that there was no revelation then of a resurrection or the full long term good for all people, which is presented later.