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What if Jesus was the antichrist?

Zorro1227

Zorro1227

Active Member
angellous_evangellous said:
I believe that this is the scholarly consensus for interpreting the anti-Christ among Christian as well as non-Christian scholars.

The consensus is so overwhelming that you could go to a university library and pick a commentary on Revelation at random and it will almost certainly hold this view. If not, the commentary will at least mention it, and if it doesn't, then it's garbage.
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By where did you hear this theory, I wanted you to give me a source. Believing that this is the scholary consensus does not make that fact.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Zorro1227 said:
By where did you hear this theory, I wanted you to give me a source. Believing that this is the scholary consensus does not make that fact.
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OK, I picked a commentary at random.... I've seen it so much, I don't know where I originally heard it.

http://books.google.com/books?id=diAwlsT18vgC&pg=PA343&dq=Revelation+Antichrist+commentary&ei=Z6TLSuuJNZ7CzQTw38DWBw#v=onepage&q=&f=false

A critical and exegetical commentary on the revelation of St. John - by R. H. Childs - 338 and following
 
Zorro1227

Zorro1227

Active Member
itwillend said:
nothing worth doing is ever easy :D
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I don't know about that. I know a lot of christians who make it look real easy. They quote scriptures when they have never read the bible, they can interpret things in the bible the way they want to because there will always be another "denomination" for that, they believe in a demon to blame all of their screw ups on, etc.
 
Breathe

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
-- Mod Advisory --

"Critique each other's ideas all you want, but under no circumstances personally attack each other or the staff."

Let's avoid making any more personal comments now, shall we?

-- End of Mod Advisory --​
 
H

Humanistheart

Well-Known Member
sandy whitelinger said:
Rather than just spouting stuff, back up these claims in someway.
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Alright, seeing as you're unfamiliar with the messianic prophicies and what would be required of one before being called a christ, I'll explain (also perhaps this will help with the utter lack of intellectual conversation on this thread).

Messiah (keep in mind messiah and christ mean the same thing and are interchangable) means annointed one, specifically, an anointment into the service of god using prepared holy oils. (see Exodus 29:7, I Kings 1:39, II Kings 9:3, etc). Jesus was never annointed, yet people call him a word that means annointed, mostly out of ingorance.

The future messiah described in the prophicies was to be of the line of david, on the fathers side. Jesus had no earthly father so that's out (and we do not have mary's lineage so even if that could be counted there's no reason to think she was of the royal line). (Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1).

The messiah is to bring all jews back to their land of Isreal. (Isaiah 43:5-6). Not only did jesus not do this, but in fact christian nations across the world have mistreated and abused the jewish people for centuries, culminating in the holocaust of WW2, so if anything jesus's legacy was to do the opposite.

The messiah is to usher in a golden age of peace that would spread across the world(Isaiah 2:4). Again, jesus did not do that. In fact his own words suggest the opposite, as he flat out said he did not come to bring peace but a sword (a metaphorical sword perhaps, but the message that he would not bring peace was clear). And again, his followers, christians, have the dubious honor of being the most blood soaked religion ever to curse this world. So again, jesus's legacy has been the opposite of what the messiah's was to be.

The messiah is to bring the world to the truth of god, so that all as one would see him as lord(Zechariah 14:9). Yet because of jesus a new version of the god of abraham was born, a trinity of gods combined into one. And there are numerious offshoot religions that have tacken this further, and changed the concept of god even more from it's original, such as mormonism or the bahai. This is hardly a unity as to the truth of this god now is it? At any rate the point is that yet again jesus fails the test of the messiah.

The messiah was also to build the 3rd temple, yet this was not done either. (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

Also, as the leader of isreal, the messiah was to guide the people through proper observance of Torah, yet jesus repeatedly changed or ignored torah. In Deut. 13:1-4 we see that this alone is enough to identify the man as a false prophet.

So you see jesus in no way qualified as a messiah, and in most ways was the opposite or anti-messiah. It is therefore entirely apt to describe this character as an anti-christ.
 
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H

Humanistheart

Well-Known Member
Humanistheart said:
Alright, seeing as you're unfamiliar with the messianic prophicies and what would be required of one before being called a christ, I'll explain (also perhaps this will help with the utter lack of intellectual conversation on this thread).

Messiah (keep in mind messiah and christ mean the same thing and are interchangable) means annointed one, specifically, an anointment into the service of god using prepared holy oils. (see Exodus 29:7, I Kings 1:39, II Kings 9:3, etc). Jesus was never annointed, yet people call him a word that means annointed, mostly out of ingorance.

The future messiah described in the prophicies was to be of the line of david, on the fathers side. Jesus had no earthly father so that's out (and we do not have mary's lineage so even if that could be counted there's no reason to think she was of the royal line). (Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1).

The messiah is to bring all jews back to their land of Isreal. (Isaiah 43:5-6). Not only did jesus not do this, but in fact christian nations across the world have mistreated and abused the jewish people for centuries, culminating in the holocaust of WW2, so if anything jesus's legacy was to do the opposite.

The messiah is to usher in a golden age of peace that would spread across the world(Isaiah 2:4). Again, jesus did not do that. In fact his own words suggest the opposite, as he flat out said he did not come to bring peace but a sword (a metaphorical sword perhaps, but the message that he would not bring peace was clear). And again, his followers, christians, have the dubious honor of being the most blood soaked religion ever to curse this world. So again, jesus's legacy has been the opposite of what the messiah's was to be.

The messiah is to bring the world to the truth of god, so that all as one would see him as lord(Zechariah 14:9). Yet because of jesus a new version of the god of abraham was born, a trinity of gods combined into one. And there are numerious offshoot religions that have tacken this further, and changed the concept of god even more from it's original, such as mormonism or the bahai. This is hardly a unity as to the truth of this god now is it? At any rate the point is that yet again jesus fails the test of the messiah.

The messiah was also to build the 3rd temple, yet this was not done either. (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

Also, as the leader of isreal, the messiah was to guide the people through proper observance of Torah, yet jesus repeatedly changed or ignored torah. In Deut. 13:1-4 we see that this alone is enough to identify the man as a false prophet.

So you see jesus in no way qualified as a messiah, and in most ways was the opposite or anti-messiah. It is therefore entirely apt to describe this character as an anti-christ.
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So I take it by the lack of defence presented that we can all agree jesus is more aptly called the anti-christ. Glad you've all come to your sences.
 
OGMIOS6666

OGMIOS6666

Member
Indeed what you utter from your mouths is all conjecture,and conjecture leads to lies, Jesus was the Messiah, it isjust that all of you donot have the correct interpretation of our Jesus. Throughout history, Jesus has been used as a tool for deception for another religion, a religion which is teaching mankind all the wrong things, they hide behind the religion of Jesus and say what they do not know.
The evil ones regognise the truth as they recognise their own sons, it is just that they donot wish to reveal the manifest truth to the world. Jesus was indeed a prophet of God, he cured the blind, raised alive the head,this was all given to him by the leave of God, for it is God who sent him down to mankind to teach mankind what he knew not.
Why on earth do you think the evil elders are trying their utmost to delude all of you, it is simple because they are preparing you for their Messiah, who will be the Anti-christ.
 
H

Humanistheart

Well-Known Member
OGMIOS6666 said:
Indeed what you utter from your mouths is all conjecture,and conjecture leads to lies, Jesus was the Messiah, it isjust that all of you donot have the correct interpretation of our Jesus. Throughout history, Jesus has been used as a tool for deception for another religion, a religion which is teaching mankind all the wrong things, they hide behind the religion of Jesus and say what they do not know.
The evil ones regognise the truth as they recognise their own sons, it is just that they donot wish to reveal the manifest truth to the world. Jesus was indeed a prophet of God, he cured the blind, raised alive the head,this was all given to him by the leave of God, for it is God who sent him down to mankind to teach mankind what he knew not.
Why on earth do you think the evil elders are trying their utmost to delude all of you, it is simple because they are preparing you for their Messiah, who will be the Anti-christ.
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First off, welcome to the site OGM :) Second, I'd like to point out this is a debate site and this thread is in the debate section. If you have anything to prove jesus was the christ, or disprove that jesus can aptly be called the anti-christ then by all means present it. But a personal belief is not an argument by any means, and I can only assume you did not fully read the qualifications for a messiah, the ones jesus did not fulfill. Jesus is aptly called the anti-christ.

Edit: Sorry I forgot to mention this before, but there are also non-debate sections to for people of the same or other religions to just discuss idea's without debate or heavy critique.
 
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OGMIOS6666

OGMIOS6666

Member
Thank you for welcoming me. I sincerely apologise as I am not aware if I am saying things which I should not. Most of the time in life, many do not wish to know about the truth, it scares them and leaves ones mind in a flood of confusion, after all our brains is merely comprised of a lump of flesh, and it is not practical for a man to be certain about things in the unseen as he is merely the lowest of creatures in the sight of the creation of the universe.
Jesus was I can assure you a good man and an honest man who truly spoke the truth, it is not his fault that his words have been distorted to make illegal things legal and legal things illegal.
 
Rogue Cardinal

Rogue Cardinal

Devil's Advocate
OGMIOS6666 said:
Thank you for welcoming me. I sincerely apologise as I am not aware if I am saying things which I should not. Most of the time in life, many do not wish to know about the truth, it scares them and leaves ones mind in a flood of confusion, after all our brains is merely comprised of a lump of flesh, and it is not practical for a man to be certain about things in the unseen as he is merely the lowest of creatures in the sight of the creation of the universe.
Jesus was I can assure you a good man and an honest man who truly spoke the truth, it is not his fault that his words have been distorted to make illegal things legal and legal things illegal.
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No one doubts that Jesus was a good chap. But his deity status is easily questioned. Also his Messiah status is very easily called into question. By his actions and by the OT as already very accurately expanded upon in this thread.
 
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