What if these Christian beliefs are not true?

[Trailblazer]

Waiting complacently and passively and mockingly is the way of disbelievers.

It is not the way of disbelievers, since disbelievers are not waiting for Jesus to return.
It is the way of Christians, all the Christians I know in person or on forums.

There is a whole theme of how disbelievers await, with how Rasool (s) and his followers await.

That might be the way Muslims await, but it is not how Christians await.

 

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It is not the way of disbelievers, since disbelievers are not waiting for Jesus to return.

But disbelievers do await, they just wait it seeing as it probably won't happen, and so if it's going to happen, let it happen already. This how they always mocked destruction type Messengers and then the punishment came to them when they weren't ready.

They see it far off from happening, but still wait it passively.

 

[Link]

That might be the way Muslims await, but it is not how Christians await.

Muslims don't wait this way. Unfortunately, this is a theme (the waiting theme) the sorcery has blocked them from reflecting upon.

They aren't striving to avert bad results, they aren't even aware of how Quran talks about the warnings in this regard.

The sorcery has blinded them.

 

[Trailblazer]

True is an ambiguous term. It really doesn't mean much. It doesn't really mean what you think it does.

I don't know what you think it means. To me it means true as opposed to false, when there is no ambiguity.
That applies to all the beliefs on my list (1-4). They are either true or false.

1 isn't accurate according to the Bible.

I agree.

2 is ambiguous as well. Jesus is mediator to man, since before Adam sinned.

I believe that Jesus was the mediator between God and man from the time that He received the Holy Spirit and through That applies His Dispensation, but not for all of time.

3 is accurate according to the Bible.

It is accurate according to the Bible but that does not mean it is true.

4 isn't accurate according to the Bible.

I agree, because Jesus never promised to return to earth. Rather, He said His work was finished here, He was no more in the world, and we would see Him no more (John 14:19, John 16:10, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30).

The ambiguity of the term true as you are using it is demonstrable in that, for starters those beliefs may all be true according to Christianity, but not according to the Bible.

That is correct. They are true according to Christianity but that does not mean they are true according to the Bible or true according to God.

They are falsifiable according to either Christianity, or the Bible. What else matters?

How can they be proven false? You can try to prove they are false according to the Bible, but Christians will not accept the proof.
What matters is that people, not only Christians, realize they are false, since these beliefs are harmful.

The answer to the first is yes,

I agree, because false beliefs do not belong in a true religion. There is a lot about Christianity that is true but it gets lost among the false beliefs.

with precedence being the broken covenant as recorded in the Hebrew scripture

I don't know what you mean by that.

and the answer to the second it wouldn't likely change Christianity at all, especially with 4 because 4 isn't true. You don't have to speculate.

I disagree. I think it would change Christianity a lot since it would take away the hope of millions of Christians if they knew that Jesus was never going to return to earth. There would be no judgment and no resurrection and no kingdom with Jesus as ruler, all the things that Christians believe Jesus will accomplish when He returns to earth.

It does not matter that it is not true. The point is that Christians believe it is true and you cannot prove it isn't true.
As long as Jesus has not come back to earth, Christians can continue to believe He is coming. I think this is the most harmful of all Christian beliefs.

It appears like you have not been on this forum very long, but here is an example of the harm that comes to people from holding the belief that Jesus is going to return, and what will happen after that. I don't bother to respond anymore because it just goes in the same circle over and over again. When people are convinced there is no use trying to change their minds. They will cite Bible verses and misapply them in an effort to try to prove their beliefs are true. The Bible can be used to try to prove anything anyone wants to believe.

What really happens to you after you die...

There was a reason for Jesus to die, but it wasn't so people would rise from their graves and live forever on earth. It was so we could have eternal life. Eternal life is nearness to God. We can have eternal life while living on earth and in heaven after we die. "eternal life" means just...

www.religiousforums.com

What really happens to you after you die...

There was a reason for Jesus to die, but it wasn't so people would rise from their graves and live forever on earth. It was so we could have eternal life. Eternal life is nearness to God. We can have eternal life while living on earth and in heaven after we die. "eternal life" means just...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[Trailblazer]

But disbelievers do await, they just wait it seeing as it probably won't happen, and so if it's going to happen, let it happen already. This how they always mocked destruction type Messengers and then the punishment came to them when they weren't ready.

They see it far off from happening, but still wait it passively.

Sorry, I thought you were referring to nonbelievers, people who don't believe in God.
Yes, disbelievers do what you said above.

 

[InChrist]

The following list contains some beliefs that are central to Christianity.

1) Jesus is God
2) Jesus is the only way to God
3) Jesus rose from the dead
4) Jesus is going to return to earth

But what if these beliefs are not true?

Of course this is hypothetical since these are beliefs that cannot be proven either true or false.

However, this post is based on the assumption that the above list of beliefs are false.
If that is the case, I have two questions:

- Could Christianity still be a true religion from God?
- How would that change Christianity now and in the future?

I am particularly interested in 4), the belief that Jesus is going to return to earth. Many Christians will continue to wait for Jesus to return as long as they 'believe' that Jesus will return someday, but what if all Christians realized that Jesus is never going to return to earth?

I’d say if those beliefs you have listed are not true, then Christianity is worthless, as well as the biblical scriptures. The Bible is the primary source from which we get information about who Jesus Christ is and promises from God about His return. So either the information is true or false, valid or invalid.

I consider the biblical information to be revelation from the Creator of Heaven and Earth for the benefit of humanity.

 

[Trailblazer]

I’d say if those beliefs you have listed are not true, then Christianity is worthless, as well as the biblical scriptures.

I’d say if those beliefs I have listed are not true, then the beliefs that are central to Christianity are false.
That does not mean that the biblical scriptures are false, it only means some have been misinterpreted by the Christians who hold these beliefs.
It also does not mean that Christianity is false since Christianity should be based upon the teachings of Jesus, not upon man-made Christian doctrines.

Beliefs #1 and #4 are not supported by the Bible when the Bible is interpreted correctly.
Belief #2 is based upon one verse that we do not know was spoken by Jesus, and even if it was, it does not say that Jesus is the only way for all of time.
Belief #3 does can never be proven to be true and it does not matter if it was true since the meaning assigned to it by Christians is not true, Imo.

The Bible is the primary source from which we get information about who Jesus Christ is and promises from God about His return. So either the information is true or false, valid or invalid.

That opens up a can of worms since the Bible can be and is interpreted differently by different people.
So the Bible can be true, but the meanings people derive from certain Bible verses can be true or false.

I consider the biblical information to be revelation from the Creator of Heaven and Earth for the benefit of humanity.

In general I believe that is true, but that doesn't mean the Bible is inerrant.

 

[InChrist]

I’d say if those beliefs I have listed are not true, then the beliefs that are central to Christianity are false.
That does not mean that the biblical scriptures are false, it only means some have been misinterpreted by the Christians who hold these beliefs.
It also does not mean that Christianity is false since Christianity should be based upon the teachings of Jesus, not upon man-made Christian doctrines.

Beliefs #1 and #4 are not supported by the Bible when the Bible is interpreted correctly.
Belief #2 is based upon one verse that we do not know was spoken by Jesus, and even if it was, it does not say that Jesus is the only way for all of time.
Belief #3 does can never be proven to be true and it does not matter if it was true since the meaning assigned to it by Christians is not true, Imo.

That opens up a can of worms since the Bible can be and is interpreted differently by different people.
So the Bible can be true, but the meanings people derive from certain Bible verses can be true or false.

In general I believe that is true, but that doesn't mean the Bible is inerrant.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I think you are right about the Bible being interpreted differently by different people, but that doesn’t make those various different interpretations correct. I believe the biblical scriptures taken in context of surrounding passages, other related passages, and in light of the entire Bible will sell-interpret, meaning the scripture interpret themselves correctly. I think my thoughts and ideas about what the scriptures are saying needs to be corrected by the scriptures when I am out of line with what they are actually saying.

Since I believe the Bible to be revelation from God, then I believe it to be inerrant because God is inerrant.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

It appears like you have not been on this forum very long, but here is an example of the harm that comes to people from holding the belief that Jesus is going to return, and what will happen after that. I don't bother to respond anymore because it just goes in the same circle over and over again. When people are convinced there is no use trying to change their minds. They will cite Bible verses and misapply them in an effort to try to prove their beliefs are true. The Bible can be used to try to prove anything anyone wants to believe.

What really happens to you after you die...

There was a reason for Jesus to die, but it wasn't so people would rise from their graves and live forever on earth. It was so we could have eternal life. Eternal life is nearness to God. We can have eternal life while living on earth and in heaven after we die. "eternal life" means just...

www.religiousforums.com

What really happens to you after you die...

There was a reason for Jesus to die, but it wasn't so people would rise from their graves and live forever on earth. It was so we could have eternal life. Eternal life is nearness to God. We can have eternal life while living on earth and in heaven after we die. "eternal life" means just...

www.religiousforums.com

In my experience, diverse assertions about the afterlife, as depicted in the Bible and interpreted by Christians, result in many confused earthbound spirits of Christians who are afraid and angry because they're not where they expected to be after death. They are neither in heaven nor asleep in their graves; rather, they are trapped in the physical world and unable to crossover into the spirit realm. They either linger at their grave, where they died, or in another location that was important to them when they were still alive. It makes me sad to see or meet them, especially in a church building. I feel sorry for them.

 

[Trailblazer]

Since I believe the Bible to be revelation from God, then I believe it to be inerrant because God is inerrant.

But God did not write the Bible, men did. Even if they were inspired by the Holy Spirit they were still men so they were fallible.
I believe that Jesus was infallible but unfortunately Jesus did not write the Bible.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The verses in Quran say he won't die till all people of the book believe in him. We saw @InvestigateTruth try to make this about Baha'allah coming as in Jesus (a) coming back and that at the end of his qiyama (when next Prophet comes), all people of the book will believe in him.

in our scriptures, "before His Death", often is interpreted End of Dispensation.

For example Noah lived 950 years, means His death came after 950 years. This is the duration of His Dispensation or Covenant, before next Covenant is made by Abraham.
Likewise, Baha'u'llah being Return of Christ (Spiritually), will live a 1000 years as per our scriptures.

 

[Trailblazer]

In my experience, diverse assertions about the afterlife, as depicted in the Bible and interpreted by Christians, result in many confused earthbound spirits of Christians who are afraid and angry because they're not where they expected to be after death. They are neither in heaven nor asleep in their graves; rather, they are trapped in the physical world and unable to crossover into the spirit realm. They either linger at their grave, where they died, or in another location that was important to them when they were still alive. It makes me sad to see or meet them, especially in a church building. I feel sorry for them.

At least the earthbound Christians who feel trapped in the physical world and unable to cross over into the spirit realm can be helped to cross over and at least they want to go to heaven....

I think that the Christians who are going to be most confused are the JWs, when they realize they were not resurrected to live forever on earth in a physical body. They will not like that since they wanted to live forever on earth, not in heaven.

 

[LeftyLen]

The following list contains some beliefs that are central to Christianity.

1) Jesus is God
2) Jesus is the only way to God
3) Jesus rose from the dead
4) Jesus is going to return to earth

But what if these beliefs are not true?

Of course this is hypothetical since these are beliefs that cannot be proven either true or false.

However, this post is based on the assumption that the above list of beliefs are false.
If that is the case, I have two questions:

- Could Christianity still be a true religion from God?
- How would that change Christianity now and in the future?

I am particularly interested in 4), the belief that Jesus is going to return to earth. Many Christians will continue to wait for Jesus to return as long as they 'believe' that Jesus will return someday, but what if all Christians realized that Jesus is never going to return to earth?

Does this mean belief in the Roman trinity? Does this mean belief in Sola Scriptora? Also whose Christianity?

 

[Trailblazer]

Does this mean belief in the Roman trinity? Does this mean belief in Sola Scriptora? Also whose Christianity?

Just those beliefs that I listed, 1-4.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

At least the earthbound Christians who feel trapped in the physical world and unable to cross over into the spirit realm can be helped to cross over and at least they want to go to heaven....

Some do, some don't. Some of these spirits refuse to cross because they feel angry and betrayed for being led to believe that they would either be in heaven immediately after death or asleep in their graves. It's also unsettling for them to discover that there are earthbound spirits (which they didn't believe in), that they are now one of these spirits, and that there are spirit mediums (like me) who can see, hear, and communicate directly with the dead.

I think that the Christians who are going to be most confused are the JWs, when they realize they were not resurrected to live forever on earth in a physical body. They will not like that since they wanted to live forever on earth, not in heaven.

In my experience, Jehovah's Witnesses are some of the most confused and upset of the earthbound spirits I've encountered over the years. To be honest, after reading many posts written by JWs regarding what they believe about the afterlife, I understand why. It makes sense to me why they're so confused.

 

[LeftyLen]

Just those beliefs that I listed, 1-4.

then as to 1.- Is the Father God, are there two Gods? full circle to my question

 

[Trailblazer]

then as to 1.- Is the Father God, are there two Gods? full circle to my question

The Father is God but Jesus is not the Father so Jesus is not God.
Jesus is the Son of God. God does not have a biological son, but rather it is relational. Jesus is as a son is to a father in relationship.

 

[LeftyLen]

The Father is God but Jesus is not the Father so Jesus is not God.
Jesus is the Son of God. God does not have a biological son, but rather it is relational. Jesus is as a son is to a father in relationship.

so you reject the roman trinity?

 

[Trailblazer]

so you reject the roman trinity?

Yes.

 

[PearlSeeker]

1) Jesus is God

Christianity would still be a religion but with different theology. See Arianism and other alternative Christologies.

2) Jesus is the only way to God

This would make Christianity more syncretic and eclectic. Kind of new age.

3) Jesus rose from the dead

The Bible gives you the answer:

"And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins." (1 Corinthians 15:17)

4) Jesus is going to return to earth

Christians would still wait - just as they have been waiting for the last 2000 years. In the meantime some Churches believe Jesus returns physically (in the form of bread and wine) every day.