What if these Christian beliefs are not true?

[Trailblazer]

Aren't his words written down so you can read them?

Yes they are written down but I don't know what books they are in. I am sure @Truthseeker would know.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes they are written down but I don't know what books they are in. I am sure @Truthseeker would know.

I see. OK, have a good evening.

 

[Trailblazer]

I see. OK, have a good evening.

I'm sure @Truthseeker will respond when he sees my posts. He is my good friend but it is 1:30 AM now where he lives so he has probably gone to bed.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Aren't his words written down so you can read them?

Depends what we are looking for, all the current writings are available here.

Bahá’í Reference Library | The Bahá’í Faith

www.bahai.org

The list of Messengers that have been mentioned include references to the 25 plus Messengers named in the Quran,see this link for those named.

Prophets mentioned in the Quran - OnePath Network

Prophets in the Holy Quran Prophets are human beings, who were chosen by Allah to preach the same, universal message: Believing in one God. Prophets guided their nations to reform their morals and purify their souls. This growth was achieved through commands and rules that ensured humans acted...

onepathnetwork.com

The Kitab-i-iqan by Baha'u'llah also mentions other Messengers from God.

The Kitáb-i-Íqán | Bahá’í Reference Library

A treatise revealed by Bahá’u’lláh in Baghdad in 1861/62 in response to questions posed by one of the maternal uncles of the Báb, translated by Shoghi Effendi and first published in English in 1931.

www.bahai.org

Only 25% of the wrirings of Baha’u’llah have been translated into English, there is a great deal of Persian and Arabic tables included in the Baha'i Library, linked above.

Regards Tony

 

[YoursTrue]

@Trailblazer I would think that you would know about what the leaders of your religion would say about these things. Or at least you can look them up if they have a library of sorts online. Well, take care.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The Bab and Baha'u'llah were the only ones who received messages from God.
Abdu'l-Baha (the son of Baha'u'llah) and Shoghi Effendi (the great grandson of Baha'u'llah) were appointed interpreters of that Writings of Baha'u'llah.
There have been no Messengers of God since Baha'u'llah, who wrote His Writings from 1852-1892, when He died.

@YoursTrue Both Abdul'baha and Shoghi Effend had authority under the Covernant of Baha’u’llah to Interpret all the Writings, and anything they did Interpret is given the station of authorised Writings for the Baha'i Dispensation.

Abdul'baha knew of everything Baha’u’llah revealed and it was Abdul'baha that instructed Shoghi Effendi.

No one knew the Writings better than Abdul'baha and then Shoghi Effendi.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

@Trailblazer I would think that you would know about what the leaders of your religion would say about these things. Or at least you can look them up if they have a library of sorts online. Well, take care.

Yes, I can look anything up since it is all online....
We were talking specifically about what Abdu'l-Baha said about evolution, and because I am not scientifically inclined that is not easy for me to explain, which is why I asked @Truthseeker to explain it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, I can look anything up since it is all online....
We were talking specifically about what Abdu'l-Baha said about evolution, and because I am not scientifically inclined that is not easy for me to explain, which is why I asked @Truthseeker to explain it.

The explanations of Abdul'baha are found in Some Answered Questions part 4, with quite a few topics that cover the concept.

Some Answered Questions | Bahá’í Reference Library

A collection of transcriptions of table talks given by ‘Abdu’l‑Bahá in ‘Akká between 1904 and 1906 in response to questions posed by Laura Dreyfus-Barney, an American Bahá’í resident in Paris, and first published in 1908. The new edition, extensively retranslated, was published in 2014.

www.bahai.org

@YoursTrue

Basically Abdul'baha explains the evolution of man has been as a distinct species, no matter what form we may have taken in the past. Abdul'baha explains its like the progess of man in the Womb of the Mother.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

That is unknown to me whether they existed or not. The Baha'i Faith says nothing about them one way or the other.

Yeah, I question whether a lot of people in the ancient Scriptures existed, including Krishna, Adam, Noah, Abraham and others. If the stories weren't written until way later, who would know? And even if they were based on real people, it would be easy to embellish the stories about them and make them into superheroes.

The Central figures said very little about the Dharmic Figures, since they were not to concern of people the addressed most of the time. Do we really have to reconcile everything though to live together through unity in diversity?

Yes, the Baha'is do, because Baha'is are claiming to be a religion that has a message that is going to unite all people. Plus, the claim that Baha'u'llah is the return of Krishna and Buddha. And Baha'is have been trying to reconcile all sorts of religious beliefs and make them all point towards Baha'u'llah. And this includes Buddhism and Hinduism but also includes other religious beliefs like the religious beliefs of the Native Americans.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, the Baha'is do, because Baha'is are claiming to be a religion that has a message that is going to unite all people. Plus, the claim that Baha'u'llah is the return of Krishna and Buddha. And Baha'is have been trying to reconcile all sorts of religious beliefs and make them all point towards Baha'u'llah. And this includes Buddhism and Hinduism but also includes other religious beliefs like the religious beliefs of the Native Americans.

Abdu'l-Baha offers from Baha'u'llah, that

"The different religions have one truth underlying them; therefore, their reality is one."

Baha'u'llah offerd

That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith.

That is for the Most Great peace

To obtain the Lesser Peace. Shoghi Effendi quotes Baha'u'llah

"Regard the world as the human body which, though at its creation whole and perfect, hath been afflicted, through various causes, with grave disorders and maladies. Not for one day did it gain ease, nay its sickness waxed more severe, as it fell under the treatment of ignorant physicians, who gave full rein to their personal desires and have erred grievously. And if, at one time, through the care of an able physician, a member of that body was healed, the rest remained afflicted as before.” In other passages, Bahá’u’lláh spells out some of the practical implications. The governments of the world are called upon to convene an international consultative body as the foundation, in the words of the Guardian, of “a world federal system” empowered to safeguard the autonomy and territory of its state members, resolve national and regional disputes and coordinate programmes of global development for the good of the entire human race. Significantly, Bahá’u’lláh attributes to this system, once established, the right to suppress by force acts of aggression by one state against another. Addressing the rulers of His day, He asserts the clear moral authority of such action: “Should any one among you take up arms against another, rise ye all against him, for this is naught but manifest justice

Regards Tony

 

[cataway]

The Bab and Baha'u'llah were the only ones who received messages from God.
Abdu'l-Baha (the son of Baha'u'llah) and Shoghi Effendi (the great grandson of Baha'u'llah) were appointed interpreters of that Writings of Baha'u'llah.
There have been no Messengers of God since Baha'u'llah, who wrote His Writings from 1852-1892, when He died.

''His Writings from 1852-1892, when He died.'' interesting...... the time of his end , is close to the time the JW's came into existence

 

[TransmutingSoul]

''His Writings from 1852-1892, when He died.'' interesting...... the time of his end , is close to the time the JW's came into existence

It all started in 1844 with William Miller. It was from the great disappointment that other ideas were formulated, one which became the JW path.

Yet in 1844, when William Miller was expecting the Return of Christ, the Bab gave his Message and said;

"I am, I am, the promised One! I am the One whose name you have for a thousand years invoked, at whose mention you have risen, whose advent you have longed to witness, and the hour of whose Revelation you have prayed God to hasten." Bab

If you are aware of the 1260 prophecy of the Bible, AD1844 was also AH1260.

Regards Tony

 

[Truthseeker]

You do not believe that Adam and Eve were not the first man and woman on earth?

No, I don't think that the Bab talked about evolution, but Abdu'l-Baha, the son of Baha'u'llah, talked about evolution.
If you want to know what he said you'll have to ask @Truthseeker since he knows a lot about what he said and I don't.

It's hard to summarize that within a short space.

Did the Bab talk about evolution, by the way?

Here is a reference to an article written about what Abdu'l-Baha said about that. Warning: It is 39 pages long. but you can download it and see it piece by piece.

Abstract The harmony of science and religion is a central teaching of the Bahá’í Faith that has important implications for the development of society and the emergence of a global civilization. Science and religion, “the two most potent forces in human life,” have often been at odds, most notably over evolution and the origins of man. ‘Abdu’l-Bahá has commented at length on evolution and man’s origins, providing the most extensive exploration of the harmony of science and religion in the Bahá’í canon. We systematically survey ‘Abdu’l-Bahá’s teachings on evolution and show that He reconciles two viewpoints—evolution and divine creation—that other thinkers have deemed irremediably in conflict.

Religion and Evolution Reconciled

One of the authors is someone I communicated with on an online course; Stephen Friberg, who has a PHD in Physics.

 

[Truthseeker]

I'm sure @Truthseeker will respond when he sees my posts. He is my good friend but it is 1:30 AM now where he lives so he has probably gone to bed.

Not yet at 2:03. I gave him a lengthy article on this. Best I could do.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The explanations of Abdul'baha are found in Some Answered Questions part 4, with quite a few topics that cover the concept.

Some Answered Questions | Bahá’í Reference Library

A collection of transcriptions of table talks given by ‘Abdu’l‑Bahá in ‘Akká between 1904 and 1906 in response to questions posed by Laura Dreyfus-Barney, an American Bahá’í resident in Paris, and first published in 1908. The new edition, extensively retranslated, was published in 2014.

www.bahai.org

@YoursTrue

Basically Abdul'baha explains the evolution of man has been as a distinct species, no matter what form we may have taken in the past. Abdul'baha explains its like the progess of man in the Womb of the Mother.

Regards Tony

Not yet at 2:03. I gave him a lengthy article on this. Best I could do.

Some Answered Questions has a series of shorter talks.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

''His Writings from 1852-1892, when He died.'' interesting...... the time of his end , is close to the time the JW's came into existence

When His body died in 1892 that was the end of His earthly mission.
Baha'u'llah is now in the Concourse on high with Jesus and the other Messengers of God but His presence is still among us here on Earth.

“Let not your hearts be perturbed, O people, when the glory of My Presence is withdrawn, and the ocean of My utterance is stilled. In My presence amongst you there is a wisdom, and in My absence there is yet another, inscrutable to all but God, the Incomparable, the All-Knowing. Verily, We behold you from Our realm of glory, and shall aid whosoever will arise for the triumph of Our Cause with the hosts of the Concourse on high and a company of Our favored angels.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 139-140

 

[Truthseeker]

Some Answered Questions has a series of shorter talks.

Regards Tony

The authors of this article reference more than Some Answered Questions, and what Abdu'l-Baha says in Some Answered Questions and evolution in other places needs a couple of smart people to put them in perspective. They are easily misunderstood. The Universal House of Justice reference this article as an example of Baha'is giving a good explanation on this. I've read it myself, though it was a while ago.

They may be shorter talks but there are a number of them, and they've been hard for me to put together and understand them.

 

[Truthseeker]

When His body died in 1892 that was the end of His earthly mission.
Baha'u'llah is now in the Concourse on high with Jesus and the other Messengers of God but His presence is still among us here on Earth.

“Let not your hearts be perturbed, O people, when the glory of My Presence is withdrawn, and the ocean of My utterance is stilled. In My presence amongst you there is a wisdom, and in My absence there is yet another, inscrutable to all but God, the Incomparable, the All-Knowing. Verily, We behold you from Our realm of glory, and shall aid whosoever will arise for the triumph of Our Cause with the hosts of the Concourse on high and a company of Our favored angels.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 139-140

That passage is also in the Kitab-i-Aqdas. Shoghi Effendi sometimes in Gleanings put translations of passages of books like the Kitab-i-Iqan and the Kitab-i-Aqdas.

 

[cataway]

It all started in 1844 with William Miller. It was from the great disappointment that other ideas were formulated, one which became the JW path.

Yet in 1844, when William Miller was expecting the Return of Christ, the Bab gave his Message and said;

"I am, I am, the promised One! I am the One whose name you have for a thousand years invoked, at whose mention you have risen, whose advent you have longed to witness, and the hour of whose Revelation you have prayed God to hasten." Bab

If you are aware of the 1260 prophecy of the Bible, AD1844 was also AH1260.

Regards Tony

William Miller, who is generally credited with the founding of the Adventist Church, predicted that Christ would return sometime between March 1843 and March 1844. As a result, some then expected to be taken away to heaven. like you he did not know what he was talking about

 

[Trailblazer]

William Miller, who is generally credited with the founding of the Adventist Church, predicted that Christ would return sometime between March 1843 and March 1844. As a result, some then expected to be taken away to heaven. like you he did not know what he was talking about

Like me, Miller did know what he was talking about because those were the correct dates for the return of Christ, based upon extensive Bible research.

As a result of the prediction, and based upon their literal interpretation of the Bible, some deluded Christians expected to be taken away to heaven.
That was called the Great Disappointment.

Great Disappointment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org