What if these Christian beliefs are not true?

[CG Didymus]

Yes I was wondering how bahais feel about Indian or Greek gods like Krishna, or Athena.

What they believe is that Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Zoroaster, Krishna, Buddha, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah were all like Jesus. They were all divine but were not God but were "manifestations of God." Here's a quote...

If God were to be likened to the unapproachable sun, the source of all light and life in our own solar system, then the Manifestations of God might be compared to mirrors that perfectly reflect the sun’s light in a form that human beings are capable of comprehending. “These sanctified Mirrors…are one and all the Exponents on earth of Him Who is the central Orb of the universe, its Essence and ultimate Purpose. From Him proceed their knowledge and power; from Him is derived their sovereignty.”​

​

Because of this belief, they can't have Jesus being better than any of the others. So, that is important part of what they are arguing. Jesus cannot be God, and he cannot be the only way. And he couldn't have come back to life, and he is not the one coming back. Their prophet, Baha'u'llah, they believe is the return of the "Christ" spirit.

 

[Trailblazer]

Adam died. He died. Adam is not alive anywhere now.

No, the body of Adam is not alive anywhere now, but his soul/spirit is in heaven.

 

[cataway]

No, the body of Adam is not alive anywhere now, but his soul/spirit is in heaven.

nothing is in scripture even hints at such a thing. with good reason, dead means dead.
only in pagan belief do such things as a person going to heaven ever get mentioned.

 

[Trailblazer]

nothing is in scripture even hints at such a thing. with good reason, dead means dead.
only in pagan belief do such things as a person going to heaven ever get mentioned.

All Christians except the JWs believe that they will go to heaven when they die. That is because the Bible supports that belief.
The Bible does not support the belief that when Christians die they will be resurrected to live on earth forever. You have been duped.

What do Christians believe about going to heaven?

Heaven is where God dwells in the unapproachable light of his awesome majesty (1 Timothy 6:16). Death is “gain” for believers because we enter heaven, the place where we come into the fullness of Christ's loving presence in a wholly new way, which is better than life itself (Philippians 1:21–23). Mar 19, 2021
Where Do Christians Go When They Die? | Desiring God

What does the Christian Bible say about heaven?

Christ promised his followers they would live with him in heaven (John 12:26; 13:36; 14:2-3). 27. Jesus described heaven as having many rooms or dwellings, and promised that he himself would go there and prepare a place there for us (John 14:2-3). Feb 4, 2010
What Does the Bible Say About Heaven?

What do Christians believe happens after death?

Jesus' sacrifice was a victory over sin and death. although physical death still happens, those who believe in Christ and live good lives will be given eternal life in Heaven.
What does Christianity say about life after death? - WJEC - BBC Bitesize
https://www.epm.org/resources/2010/Feb/4/what-does-bible-say-about-heaven/

 

[Truthseeker]

The penalty for sin is separation from God. As such, spiritual death is the judgment given by God for sin.
Physical death is not a judgment, it happens to saints and sinners alike.

The Baháʼí Faith teaches that sin is disobedience to God and that sinning separates a person from God. Examples of sins in the Baháʼí Faith include anger, jealousy, hypocrisy, prejudice, and failure to follow the Baháʼí laws.
Baháʼí views on sin - Wikipedia

You're learning.

 

[Truthseeker]

I believe the Bible

I believe in what Jesus said in the Bible. Of course each person has a different understanding of what Jesus meant, and they should seek their own understanding.

 

[Truthseeker]

You say God always sent the next messenger to "clarify" our misunderstandings from the previous ones. So, I asked you to show how these different messengers did that.

Wow! That is a large task to write a whole book on. It cannot be answered in a post. You should just go with your own understandings based on your own research.

 

[Truthseeker]

Romans 6:23 For the wages sin pays is death.......
there for the penalty for sin is death

How do you know if he means physical death or spiritual death? I don't see that specified there.

 

[Truthseeker]

He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.

That's the key to the whole post, in my opinion. That is not very ambiguous about people dying, yet living. The rest is more ambiguous.

 

[Truthseeker]

Eternal life is tied to the revealing and realization of the messiah, Jesus Christ.

Yes, that's true, How does that refute what she said? What is eternal? Infinite over time, or timeless in nature? Here's all the possible meanings of eternal.

1
a
: having infinite duration : everlasting
eternal damnation
b
: of or relating to eternity
c
: characterized by abiding fellowship with God
good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?—Mark 10:17 (Revised Standard Version)
2
a
: continued without intermission : perpetual
an eternal flame
b
: seemingly endless
eternal delays
3
archaic : infernal
some eternal villain … devised this slander—William Shakespeare
4
: valid or existing at all times : timeless
eternal verities

Also what is meant by life? Spiritual life or physical life? Which do you think is more important?

 

[CG Didymus]

Wow! That is a large task to write a whole book on. It cannot be answered in a post. You should just go with your own understandings based on your own research.

Your missing the point. Tony stated it like it's some absolute truth. He made the claim that each manifestation clarifies the misunderstandings the people had about the message given by the previous manifestation. It's not my claim. Why would Tony say that if he couldn't back it up with his own research. Or... if it's something that is stated in the Baha'i writings, then he could reference where it could be found.

He's representing the Baha'i Faith. He can't just spew things out as if they are true. It's like your post to Cataway. How does he know it's physical death or spiritual death if it's not specified? You're calling him out on that. It's like TB calling out Christians that claim Jesus is coming back and challenges them to show the verses that support their claim.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

All Christians except the JWs believe that they will go to heaven when they die. That is because the Bible supports that belief.
The Bible does not support the belief that when Christians die they will be resurrected to live on earth forever. You have been duped.

What do Christians believe about going to heaven?

Heaven is where God dwells in the unapproachable light of his awesome majesty (1 Timothy 6:16). Death is “gain” for believers because we enter heaven, the place where we come into the fullness of Christ's loving presence in a wholly new way, which is better than life itself (Philippians 1:21–23). Mar 19, 2021
Where Do Christians Go When They Die? | Desiring God

What does the Christian Bible say about heaven?

Christ promised his followers they would live with him in heaven (John 12:26; 13:36; 14:2-3). 27. Jesus described heaven as having many rooms or dwellings, and promised that he himself would go there and prepare a place there for us (John 14:2-3). Feb 4, 2010
What Does the Bible Say About Heaven?
What do Christians believe happens after death?

Jesus' sacrifice was a victory over sin and death. although physical death still happens, those who believe in Christ and live good lives will be given eternal life in Heaven.
What does Christianity say about life after death? - WJEC - BBC Bitesize
What Does the Bible Say About Heaven? - Eternal Perspective Ministries

As a former Christian, street preacher, and evangelist, I can attest to the popularity of the Christian apologetic website Desiring God among evangelical Christians. I was once one, and I used this website as a resource for my daily Bible devotionals. GotQuestions.org was another Christian apologetic website that I used for biblical references when I was preparing to street preach the next day. And although I didn't necessarily agree with its Calvinistic doctrinal stance, I valued its enrichment of scriptures that I knew by heart. Therefore, I decided to share some articles from this website that, in my personal opinion, supported your statement about the common beliefs held by most Christians regarding the fate of believers and unbelievers after death. This is the same website I previously mentioned, which openly challenges the doctrinal beliefs and biblical interpretations of Jehovah's Witnesses (see my prior post here).

1) Who will go to heaven?

2) What happens after death?

3) What does the Bible say about death?

4) Do unbelievers immediately go to hell when they die?

5) What does it mean that the dead know nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5)?

 

[cataway]

All Christians except the JWs believe that they will go to heaven when they die. That is because the Bible supports that belief.
The Bible does not support the belief that when Christians die they will be resurrected to live on earth forever. You have been duped.

What do Christians believe about going to heaven?

Heaven is where God dwells in the unapproachable light of his awesome majesty (1 Timothy 6:16). Death is “gain” for believers because we enter heaven, the place where we come into the fullness of Christ's loving presence in a wholly new way, which is better than life itself (Philippians 1:21–23). Mar 19, 2021
Where Do Christians Go When They Die? | Desiring God

What does the Christian Bible say about heaven?

Christ promised his followers they would live with him in heaven (John 12:26; 13:36; 14:2-3). 27. Jesus described heaven as having many rooms or dwellings, and promised that he himself would go there and prepare a place there for us (John 14:2-3). Feb 4, 2010
What Does the Bible Say About Heaven?
What do Christians believe happens after death?

Jesus' sacrifice was a victory over sin and death. although physical death still happens, those who believe in Christ and live good lives will be given eternal life in Heaven.
What does Christianity say about life after death? - WJEC - BBC Bitesize
What Does the Bible Say About Heaven? - Eternal Perspective Ministries

again you have aired . you have yet to figure out that there will be a few that do get positions in heaven . the first of these were known to be the apostles of Jesus. they are a special group set with the task of governing the peoples of the earth. they were told about it ,talked about but had no idea of how many would be needed in that arrangement .like you , the apostles of Jesus were not told how many would be needed .
so you assume that every one go's to heaven

 

[cataway]

How do you know if he means physical death or spiritual death? I don't see that specified there.

i have seen spiritual death . it is when a person gives up and then goes back to vomit even as a dog returns to its own vomit

 

[Truthseeker]

Your missing the point. Tony stated it like it's some absolute truth. He made the claim that each manifestation clarifies the misunderstandings the people had about the message given by the previous manifestation. It's not my claim. Why would Tony say that if he couldn't back it up with his own research. Or... if it's something that is stated in the Baha'i writings, then he could reference where it could be found.

He's representing the Baha'i Faith. He can't just spew things out as if they are true. It's like your post to Cataway. How does he know it's physical death or spiritual death if it's not specified? You're calling him out on that. It's like TB calling out Christians that claim Jesus is coming back and challenges them to show the verses that support their claim.

Yes, it would be a valid inquiry to ask where where that is stated in the Baha'i Writings. Or ask about about his reasoning that this is so. I do know that in the Kitab-i-Iqan Baha'u'llah clarifies the understanding of Muslims on certain words and doctrines, and Abdu'l-Baha does that for Christians. In the New Testament Jesus in a few places clarifies what was said in the past. The Qur'an asserts that certain understandings by the Jews and Christians are wrong, though I don't think it gives an explanation of how to arrive at the correct explanation. It seems like a reasonable assumption that They all do that. I don't know exactly where it would say that explicitly at the moment. But if there is, would you believe that as a result? Not without believing in the Baha'i authoritative sources in the first place. So where would that get you as someone who doesn't buy them as authoritative sources. There seems to be no point to asking if you are seeking the truth of the matter. What are you seeking by asking? You may not believe in any of these clarifications, though I imagine you can buy some.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, that's true, How does that refute what she said? What is eternal? Infinite over time, or timeless in nature? Here's all the possible meanings of eternal.

1
a
: having infinite duration : everlasting
eternal damnation
b
: of or relating to eternity
c
: characterized by abiding fellowship with God
good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?—Mark 10:17 (Revised Standard Version)
2
a
: continued without intermission : perpetual
an eternal flame
b
: seemingly endless
eternal delays
3
archaic : infernal
some eternal villain … devised this slander—William Shakespeare
4
: valid or existing at all times : timeless
eternal verities

Also what is meant by life? Spiritual life or physical life? Which do you think is more important?

We are not alive until we are conceived physically. We are nowhere before that.

 

[Truthseeker]

We are not alive until we are conceived physically. We are nowhere before that.

I agree with that.

 

[Trailblazer]

again you have aired . you have yet to figure out that there will be a few that do get positions in heaven .

Again you have erred. You have yet to figure out that the JW doctrines are not supported by the Bible, so there there will not be only a few that do get positions in heaven. Anyone who believes in Jesus has eternal life, which means they are close to God, which means they will go to heaven.

When Jesus referred to eternal life, He was not referring to physical life of the body. He was referring a quality of life, spiritual life, loving God and being close to God.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

the first of these were known to be the apostles of Jesus. they are a special group set with the task of governing the peoples of the earth. they were told about it ,talked about but had no idea of how many would be needed in that arrangement .like you , the apostles of Jesus were not told how many would be needed .
so you assume that every one go's to heaven

"the first of these were known to be the apostles of Jesus. they are a special group set with the task of governing the peoples of the earth. they were told about it"

Please show me anywhere in the Bible that says that.

All that is JW doctrine, not supported by the Bible. If you want to believe in the Governing Body instead of the Bible that is your choice, but don't tout it as truth.

 

[cataway]

Again you have erred. You have yet to figure out that the JW doctrines are not supported by the Bible, so there there will not be only a few that do get positions in heaven. Anyone who believes in Jesus has eternal life, which means they are close to God, which means they will go to heaven.

When Jesus referred to eternal life, He was not referring to physical life of the body. He was referring a quality of life, spiritual life, loving God and being close to God.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

"the first of these were known to be the apostles of Jesus. they are a special group set with the task of governing the peoples of the earth. they were told about it"

Please show me anywhere in the Bible that says that.

All that is JW doctrine, not supported by the Bible. If you want to believe in the Governing Body instead of the Bible that is your choice, but don't tout it as truth.

its really weird how you can post 4 scriptures that speak of life ,living on and on . then contradict them . we know you don't want to believe that someday you will die. yet at that point the only hope for you is what Jesus said at John 11:25-26 . you have yet to realize that Jesus was speaking of a time, (yet in the future), when the things that he said would come to be. will you be there to welcome back the dead ? be there to tell them the things that happen . I am thinking not . perhaps for a short time ,not my call. after the resurrection the people will have to be taught about the new way so that judgment would not take them . to die again would be the second death ,there is no coming back from that.

 

[YoursTrue]

I agree with that.

Very good!