What if these Christian beliefs are not true?

[Trailblazer]

So what do you believe is the penalty for sin? Or rather I should ask what the Bab says.

The penalty for sin is separation from God. As such, spiritual death is the judgment given by God for sin.
Physical death is not a judgment, it happens to saints and sinners alike.

The Baháʼí Faith teaches that sin is disobedience to God and that sinning separates a person from God. Examples of sins in the Baháʼí Faith include anger, jealousy, hypocrisy, prejudice, and failure to follow the Baháʼí laws.
Baháʼí views on sin - Wikipedia

 

[YoursTrue]

The penalty for sin is separation from God. As such, spiritual death is the judgment given by God for sin.
Physical death is not a judgment, it happens to saints and sinners alike.

The Baháʼí Faith teaches that sin is disobedience to God and that sinning separates a person from God. Examples of sins in the Baháʼí Faith include anger, jealousy, hypocrisy, prejudice, and failure to follow the Baháʼí laws.
Baháʼí views on sin - Wikipedia

I believe the Bible.

 

[CG Didymus]

Time to use your boots for walking CG. I say that, only as I see it is in your best interests to do so, as getting it 2nd hand from me is progressively erroneous.

Regards Tony

Cop out... Passing the buck... refusing to support your claims...

And here is your claim...

I see that is your argument with God CG, as this is the way God has always given the Messengers, they one and all clarify our misunderstandings.

Why does God sent the Messengers and give the requirement for us to embrace the new message as life and rejection as death?

They clarify the previous scriptures and have the Authority of God to add to it, or repeal.

You say God always sent the next messenger to "clarify" our misunderstandings from the previous ones. So, I asked you to show how these different messengers did that.

Okay, go in chronological order and go through all the manifestations listed as being true in the Baha'i writings, which I believe should include Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Tell me what were the misunderstandings people had of each and how the manifestation that followed him clarified it.

It's your claim. Show how it's true or don't make the claim.

So first, show the misunderstandings people had about the things taught by on manifestation and show how the next manifestation clarified it.

You can start with Adam. What were the misunderstandings for Adam that were clarified by Noah? Then what were the misunderstandings people had about the message that Noah brought and how Abraham clarified it? And go on to Moses and then to Jesus.

And somewhere in there in have to fit in Krishna, Buddha and Zoroaster. I don't think you can do? I think you're just making things up. So, prove me wrong. Show me how with each messenger there were misunderstandings that were clarified by the next messenger.

Or... maybe you misspoke and need to clarify your claim. Like in true Baha'i fashion... you being symbolic not literal.

 

[YoursTrue]

Cop out... Passing the buck... refusing to support your claims...

And here is your claim...

You say God always sent the next messenger to "clarify" our misunderstandings from the previous ones. So, I asked you to show how these different messengers did that.

It's your claim. Show how it's true or don't make the claim.

So first, show the misunderstandings people had about the things taught by on manifestation and show how the next manifestation clarified it.

You can start with Adam. What were the misunderstandings for Adam that were clarified by Noah? Then what were the misunderstandings people had about the message that Noah brought and how Abraham clarified it? And go on to Moses and then to Jesus.

And somewhere in there in have to fit in Krishna, Buddha and Zoroaster. I don't think you can do? I think you're just making things up. So, prove me wrong. Show me how with each messenger there were misunderstandings that were clarified by the next messenger.

Or... maybe you misspoke and need to clarify your claim. Like in true Baha'i fashion... you being symbolic not literal.

Yes I was wondering how bahais feel about Indian or Greek gods like Krishna, or Athena.

 

[YoursTrue]

The penalty for sin is separation from God. As such, spiritual death is the judgment given by God for sin.
Physical death is not a judgment, it happens to saints and sinners alike.

The Baháʼí Faith teaches that sin is disobedience to God and that sinning separates a person from God. Examples of sins in the Baháʼí Faith include anger, jealousy, hypocrisy, prejudice, and failure to follow the Baháʼí laws.
Baháʼí views on sin - Wikipedia

Thank you for your answer. Just so I understand more about your faith, why do bahais think we die.

 

[cataway]

The penalty for sin is separation from God. As such, spiritual death is the judgment given by God for sin.
Physical death is not a judgment, it happens to saints and sinners alike.

The Baháʼí Faith teaches that sin is disobedience to God and that sinning separates a person from God. Examples of sins in the Baháʼí Faith include anger, jealousy, hypocrisy, prejudice, and failure to follow the Baháʼí laws.
Baháʼí views on sin - Wikipedia

Romans 6:23 For the wages sin pays is death.......
there for the penalty for sin is death

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Disbelievers may initially regret, but they won't be able to perceive the truth. They will see Angels as evil and Satanic comforters from human and Jinn to to be good. The dead disbelieving souls, Satan today is their master. They obey him and follow his orders like Satanic jinn.

When Angels punish them, it won't be that level of intensity, that it will be when they enter hell.

If it was not so, Jinn would not doubt. But some Jinn doubt God even though deep inside they all know they will be raised and are being arrogant like Pharaoh was arrogant toward signs.

They doubt the order of things, and are like Gnostics who deny the order is controlled by the right forces.

God hides the day of judgment and it's proof till that moment it will be when God is in full control, so Jinn and humans earn what they strive for.

See Surrah Al- Araf verses 7:35 to 7:38.
It does not say that, people go to Hell or Heaven, after getting Resurrected. It says, as soon as Death comes, they abide in Hell or Heaven:


7:35 O ye Children of Adam! whenever there come to you messengers from amongst you, rehearsing My signs unto you,- those who are righteous and mend (their lives),- on them shall be no fear nor shall they grieve
7:36 But those who reject Our signs and treat them with arrogance,- they are companions of the Fire, to dwell therein (for ever)
7:37 Who is more unjust than one who invents a lie against Allah or rejects His Signs? For such, their portion appointed must reach them from the Book (of decrees): until, when our messengers (of death) arrive and take their souls, they say: "Where are the things that ye used to invoke besides Allah?" They will reply, "They have left us in the lurch," And they will bear witness against themselves, that they had rejected Allah
7:38 He will say: "Enter ye in the company of the peoples who passed away before you - men and jinns, - into the Fire." Every time a new people enters, it curses its sister-people (that went before), until they follow each other, all into the Fire. Saith the last about the first: "Our Lord! it is these that misled us: so give them a double penalty in the Fire." He will say: "Doubled for all" : but this ye do not understand

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe the Bible.

And so? That is not saying much since the Bible says many things and can be interpreted in various ways.

 

[Trailblazer]

Thank you for your answer. Just so I understand more about your faith, why do bahais think we die.

We die because the human body is mortal.
That is not only what Baha'is think, it is an established fact known by science and verified in the Bible.

What does being a mortal mean?

adjective. If you refer to the fact that people are mortal, you mean that they have to die and cannot live forever.
MORTAL definition in American English - Collins Dictionary

What does mortal mean Bible?

subject to death

MORTAL; MORTALITY

The meaning is "subject to death" (Romans 6:12; 8:11; 1 Corinthians 15:53,54; in 2 Corinthians 5:4 the Revised Version (British and American) has "what is mortal"). In Job 4:17, the Hebrew word is 'enosh, "mortal man." See IMMORTAL.
Mortality Meaning - Bible Definition and References - Bible Study Tools

 

[YoursTrue]

And so? That is not saying much since the Bible says many things and can be interpreted in various ways.

I do not believe the Bab.

 

[YoursTrue]

We die because the human body is mortal. That is not only what Baha'is think, it is an established fact known by science.

What does being a mortal mean?

adjective. If you refer to the fact that people are mortal, you mean that they have to die and cannot live forever.
MORTAL definition in American English - Collins Dictionary

Again...I do not believe the idea of what you are saying. God did not create Adam with immortality. That does not mean that Adam had to die from the outset of his life though.

 

[Trailblazer]

Romans 6:23 For the wages sin pays is death.......
there for the penalty for sin is death

Yes, the penalty for sin is spiritual death and freedom from sin brings spiritual life, which is everlasting life.

Romans 6
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

When Jesus referred to eternal life, He was not referring to physical life of the body.
He was referring a quality of life, spiritual life, loving God and being close to God.

The soul is eternal, the body perishes. That is why Jesus said: John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life

All the verses below refer to eternal life of the soul, not eternal life of the physical body.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

All souls will continue to exist in the spiritual world after the body dies but not all souls will have eternal life (everlasting life).
Eternal life refers to a “quality” of life, nearness to God which, according to Jesus, comes from believing in Him.

 

[Trailblazer]

I do not believe the Bab.

I would not expect you to believe the Bab since you are not a Baha'i.

However, the Bible also teaches that sin is disobedience to God (breaking God's laws).

What is the Bible's definition of sin?

Easton's Bible Dictionary - Sin. Sin [N] [T] [H] is "any want of conformity unto or transgression of the law of God" ( 1 John 3:4 ; Romans 4:15 ), in the inward state and habit of the soul, as well as in the outward conduct of the life, whether by omission or commission ( Romans 6:12-17 ; 7:5-24 ).

What is Sin? Biblical Meaning and Definition

Sin includes a failure to do what is right. But sin also offends people; it is violence and lovelessness toward other people, and ultimately, rebellion against God. Further, the Bible teaches that sin involves a condition in which the heart is corrupted and inclined toward evil. The concept of...

www.biblestudytools.com

Sinning separates a person from God, so it leads to spiritual death.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Trailblazer]

Again...I do not believe the idea of what you are saying. God did not create Adam with immortality. That does not mean that Adam had to die from the outset of his life though.

God did not create Adam with immortality. That means that Adam had to die from the outset of his life.

Adam did not die because he disobeyed God by eating the fruit from the tree.
Adam died because his body was mortal.

 

[YoursTrue]

I would not expect you to believe the Bab since you are not a Baha'i.

However, the Bible also teaches that sin is disobedience to God (breaking God's laws).

What is the Bible's definition of sin?

Easton's Bible Dictionary - Sin. Sin [N] [T] [H] is "any want of conformity unto or transgression of the law of God" ( 1 John 3:4 ; Romans 4:15 ), in the inward state and habit of the soul, as well as in the outward conduct of the life, whether by omission or commission ( Romans 6:12-17 ; 7:5-24 ).

What is Sin? Biblical Meaning and Definition

Sin includes a failure to do what is right. But sin also offends people; it is violence and lovelessness toward other people, and ultimately, rebellion against God. Further, the Bible teaches that sin involves a condition in which the heart is corrupted and inclined toward evil. The concept of...

www.biblestudytools.com

Sinning separates a person from God, so it leads to spiritual death.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Eternal life is tied to the revealing and realization of the messiah, Jesus Christ.

 

[YoursTrue]

I would not expect you to believe the Bab since you are not a Baha'i.

However, the Bible also teaches that sin is disobedience to God (breaking God's laws).

What is the Bible's definition of sin?

Easton's Bible Dictionary - Sin. Sin [N] [T] [H] is "any want of conformity unto or transgression of the law of God" ( 1 John 3:4 ; Romans 4:15 ), in the inward state and habit of the soul, as well as in the outward conduct of the life, whether by omission or commission ( Romans 6:12-17 ; 7:5-24 ).

What is Sin? Biblical Meaning and Definition

Sin includes a failure to do what is right. But sin also offends people; it is violence and lovelessness toward other people, and ultimately, rebellion against God. Further, the Bible teaches that sin involves a condition in which the heart is corrupted and inclined toward evil. The concept of...

www.biblestudytools.com

Sinning separates a person from God, so it leads to spiritual death.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Eternal life is tied to the revealing and realization of the messiah, Jesus Christ.

God did not create Adam with immortality. That means that Adam had to die from the outset of his life.

Adam did not die because he disobeyed God by eating the fruit from the tree.
Adam died because his body was mortal.

He was not given immortality to begin with but the consequence for his disobedience was death.

 

[Trailblazer]

Eternal life is tied to the revealing and realization of the messiah, Jesus Christ.

Yes it is.

 

[Trailblazer]

Eternal life is tied to the revealing and realization of the messiah, Jesus Christ.

Yes it is.

He was not given immortality to begin with but the consequence for his disobedience was death.

Adam was never given immortality of the body so the consequence was death of his body.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

And so? That is not saying much since the Bible says many things and can be interpreted in various ways.

The Bible is interpreted in various ways by Christians, who believe differently about what happens to people after they die. In fact, the same can be said for Christians who believe in conditional salvation versus Christians who believe in unconditional salvation. The list goes on about how Christians disagree with what the Bible actually says. I find it ironic that they all read the Bible, but different sects of Christianity have contradictory biblical interpretations and church doctrines. I find it even more ironic that they all believe they are correct in their beliefs about the Bible, whereas all other Christians who disagree with them are wrong in theirs. They argue with each other over biblical interpretations while firmly asserting that the Bible was divinely inspired by God.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes it is.

Adam was never given immortality of the body so the consequence was death of his body.

Adam died. He died. Adam is not alive anywhere now.