An interesting thought here is that Jesus was praying through His annointed own true self, Christ.
Regards Tony
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What if these Christian beliefs are not true?
- Thread starter Trailblazer
- Start date
Regards Tony
LeftyLen
Active Member
That is a unique intepretation i never heard before, unsure what church teachs that
cataway
Well-Known Member
me thinks it odd for you to say that as Jesus knew who to worship
Luke 4:8
In reply Jesus said to him: “It is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”Matthew 4:10
Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”
I always consider that No Soul dies, it is a state of being that can exist in this matrix, all death is just spiritual ignorance and can be carried over to the next world. The brain is not the source of our consciousness and our consciousness does not die, both spiritually aware and unaware peoples.
So who are the living, as both spiritually aware and spiritually unaware are both now "Living", the dead must then be the spiritually unaware.
So then I read that verse
Ecclesiastes 9:5 "For the living know that they will die", the spiritually aware know of spiritual death, the warnings are many in all scriptures about what is true life.
"but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten", the spiritually dead do not know they are already dead, they are not part of the living.
In the end Trailblazer, no need to argue about this, God bless always.
Regards Tony
It is my understanding of what the scriptures offer in light if what is offered in the Baha'i Writings.
Basically all the Messengers come from the same Holy Spirit that God Annoints them with. God the most Great Spirit is beyond any understanding and is unapproachable, even to the Messengers.
There are some great discussions found in this.
So Jesus who was Annointed with the Holy Spirit, which is the same Spirit of all the Names given of God, actually prays to God via the Spirit He is annointed with, he is praying through all the Messengers that share that Spirit.
In turn all of us that are created in the image of that Holy Spirit, have to embrace faith in the Messengers before we to can then pray to God through them.
There is no official understanding of these topics, but you may enjoy reading them, I can find some links if interested.
Regards Tony
This is not disputed, it is about how our prayers, which is a product of our rational mind are directed to God.
Prayer is about focusing its power.
One can give the metephor of a magnifying glass as the Holy Spirit which focuses all the prayer to the one focal point, the Spirit that Jesus was Annointed with.
If we pray towards no point, the prayer lessens in power.
Thus we pray to God through "Christ" and that Focuses the prayer, Jesus in the flesh, also prayed through that focal point, through his own Annointed self.
There is much that can be discussed with this, I have no need to debate this.
Regards Tony
cataway
Well-Known Member
at what point does a person receive spirit ?? it is when the sperm from a man unites with the egg of a woman .she nurtures that life . that spark of life came from a man as an act of procreation.
where was the spirit before conception? what happened to all the other sperm that carried that spark of life ?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The spirit (soul) is the person.
A spirit (soul) becomes a person at the time of conception, when the sperm from a man unites with the egg of a woman.
Before conception that person (spirit/soul) did not exist.
None of the other sperm became a person since they did not unite with any eggs.
cataway
Well-Known Member
yep and after a person does die ,they no longer exist . the spirit ,that spark / life force ,in them ceased to exist.
even as a flame on a candle ceases to exist when its snuffed out.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Baha'u'llah said the same thing.
Referring to the soul/spirit Baha'u'llah said:
“If it be faithful to God, it will reflect His light, and will, eventually, return unto Him. If it fail, however, in its allegiance to its Creator, it will become a victim to self and passion, and will, in the end, sink in their depths...”
“And now concerning thy question regarding the soul of man and its survival after death. Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty.”
cataway
Well-Known Member
it would be best if you did not confuse spirit , like the angels are spirit jesus is now spirit . with the life force of animals and mankind . two different things that use the same word. the spirit of the flesh is biochemical electricity. there is also teem spirit an sprites (alcohol)
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@cataway
I see the Human Spirit is annointed to the new human bofy at conception, it does not become part of the flesh.
As to what the soul is before it is given at conception, I am yet to find clarity with that, as it it part of the human spirit. What I have found very interesting is that many peoples NDE experiences say the same thing, that they were given a choice as to what life they wanted to experience, so we may have to consider advice such as this.
"... the Bahá’í Writings affirm that the human soul comes into being at the time of conception. However, they do not clearly define the exact biological moment and nature of the event described as conception and this may, indeed, be a question that is insoluble by human thought or investigation, since it relates to mysteries of the spiritual world and the nature of the soul itself.
Universal House of Justice, Reproduction and other Biological Subjects, 6 February 1997, to a National Spiritual Assembly
What is happening in the spiritual realm just prior to conception, when is the Soul given of God?
So with this subject, I think it is really important to keep an open mind and not stick to any hard and fast rule.
The writings mostly say we have no real concept of the Soul.
Regards Tony
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cataway
Well-Known Member
you are a soul ,right now a living soul . dead ,you would be a dead soul. living is better .
The soul does not die, this body will. That is why Jesus said you must be born again, born from the flesh into the Holy Spirit, which is eternal.
Death in regards to the soul is relative. Faith is life, lack of faith is death, so we can be either alive or dead, while alive in the body.
One can not tell what the next life experiences will be for those that are alive and dead, but it is has been compared to a rock and an eagle in this world, what would you rather be, a rock or an eagle?
Regards Tony
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The soul cannot die because it is immortal.
You are a soul, right now a living soul who is living on earth. Dead, you would be a living soul who is living in heaven.
Nobody knows what heaven will be like but I believe living in heaven will be much better than living on earth.
cataway
Well-Known Member
thats not why jesus said you must be born again. look at it this way ,born means to start . to be born again means to start over . to learn the new things needed to live on into the future . things are going to be different when the kingdom takes over. yes you need to be born again
cataway
Well-Known Member
not one soul on this earth is immortal.
Ezekiel 18:4
.......... The soul who sins is the one who will die.
No Christian is born confirmed in faith, it is a choice to make from the age of maturity.
Baptising infants is not Biblical.
Regards Tony
cataway
Well-Known Member
no that would be the first death ,yet for some it could be the first and the last