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What if these Christian beliefs are not true?
- Thread starter Trailblazer
- Start date
cataway
Well-Known Member
you are not yet ready for that one
All the best with that, it is always good to consider this passage.
Matthew 7:1-2 “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you"
Regards Tony
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
To be born again means to be born of the Spirit. It has nothing to do with the physical body being born again.
John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
John 4:14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.
John 7:38-39 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’” But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Please note that history repeats itself so Baha'u'llah also offered the Water of Life by which we are born again.
“Incline your ears to the sweet melody of this Prisoner. Arise, and lift up your voices, that haply they that are fast asleep may be awakened. Say: O ye who are as dead! The Hand of Divine bounty proffereth unto you the Water of Life. Hasten and drink your fill. Whoso hath been re-born in this Day, shall never die; whoso remaineth dead, shall never live.”
“He is indeed as one dead who, at the wondrous dawn of this Revelation, hath failed to be quickened by its soul-stirring breeze. He is indeed a captive who hath not recognized the Supreme Redeemer, but hath suffered his soul to be bound, distressed and helpless, in the fetters of his desires.
O My servants! Whoso hath tasted of this Fountain hath attained unto everlasting Life, and whoso hath refused to drink therefrom is even as the dead. Say: O ye workers of iniquity! Covetousness hath hindered you from giving a hearing ear unto the sweet voice of Him Who is the All-Sufficing. Wash it away from your hearts, that His Divine secret may be made known unto you. Behold Him manifest and resplendent as the sun in all its glory.”
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The meaning of that verse is that the soul who sins will not gain eternal life.
When Jesus referred to eternal life, He was not referring to physical life of the body. He was referring a quality of life, spiritual life, loving God and being close to God.
The soul is eternal, the body perishes. That is why Jesus said:
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life
All the verses below refer to eternal life of the soul, not life of the physical body.
John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
All souls will continue to exist in the spiritual world after the body dies but not all souls will have eternal life (everlasting life).
Eternal life refers to a “quality” of life, nearness to God which, according to Jesus, comes from believing in Him.
“The immortality of the spirit is mentioned in the Holy Books; it is the fundamental basis of the divine religions. Now punishments and rewards are said to be of two kinds: first, the rewards and punishments of this life; second, those of the other world. But the paradise and hell of existence are found in all the worlds of God, whether in this world or in the spiritual heavenly worlds. Gaining these rewards is the gaining of eternal life. That is why Christ said, “Act in such a way that you may find eternal life, and that you may be born of water and the spirit, so that you may enter into the Kingdom.” 2”
The souls of people who are distant from God will not have eternal life; although their soul will continue to exist in the spiritual world after their physical body dies they will be “as dead” compared to those souls who are close to God.
“In the same way, the souls who are veiled from God, although they exist in this world and in the world after death, are, in comparison with the holy existence of the children of the Kingdom of God, nonexisting and separated from God.”
Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 241-243
reference.bahai.org
cataway
Well-Known Member
da you are as clever as Nic·o·deʹmus
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Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
I know from forty-five years worth of personal experience that souls do not die and that not all human spirits cross over into the spirit realm.
cataway
Well-Known Member
you are saying the bible it lying
That would be offering that your interpretations may need to be reconsidered.
Regards Tony
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I know from having been a Baha'i for 54 years that souls do not die and that not all human spirits cross over into the spirit realm.
I also know from reading books like The Afterlife Revealed and Private Dowding, which only confirm what is in the Baha'i Writings.
“And now concerning thy question regarding the soul of man and its survival after death. Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty.”
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, because the Bible does not say that the soul dies. The Bible only says that the soul that sins will not gain eternal life.
When Jesus referred to eternal life, but He was not referring to everlasting life physical life of the body.
He was referring to a quality of life, a state of the soul that is near to God, so you get eternal life by being close to God.
(John 3:16, John 3:36, John 17:3, 1 John 5:13, John 5:25)
The soul (spirit) of man is immortal, so no matter what people believe or disbelieve no soul ever actually perishes, so perish in John 3:16 means not attaining eternal life, which is nearness to God which is attained through knowing and believing in Jesus.
“The immortality of the spirit is mentioned in the Holy Books; it is the fundamental basis of the divine religions. Now punishments and rewards are said to be of two kinds: first, the rewards and punishments of this life; second, those of the other world. But the paradise and hell of existence are found in all the worlds of God, whether in this world or in the spiritual heavenly worlds. Gaining these rewards is the gaining of eternal life. That is why Christ said, “Act in such a way that you may find eternal life, and that you may be born of water and the spirit, so that you may enter into the Kingdom.” 2”
(Some Answered Questions, p. 223)
Those people who are veiled from God, although their soul continues to exist in the spiritual world after their physical body dies, are as dead souls who are not on the Kingdom of God.
“In the same way, the souls who are veiled from God, although they exist in this world and in the world after death, are, in comparison with the holy existence of the children of the Kingdom of God, nonexisting and separated from God.”
(Some Answered Questions, p. 243)
If you don't like the Baha'i explanation, here is a good Christian explanation, which is essentially the same:
What is the meaning of the soul that sinneth it shall die? — Ezekiel 18:4
First, you will learn the meaning of the word "soul" in Ezekiel 18:4. It unlocks the meaning of the verse. Second, the meaning is explained.
www.neverthirsty.org
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Jimmy
King Phenomenon
When Jesus talks about eternal life, he means on earth
cataway
Well-Known Member
No, because the Bible does not say that the soul dies. The Bible only says that the soul that sins will not gain eternal life.
What is the meaning of the soul that sinneth it shall die? — Ezekiel 18:4
First, you will learn the meaning of the word "soul" in Ezekiel 18:4. It unlocks the meaning of the verse. Second, the meaning is explained.
Ezekiel 18:4
.......... ''The soul who sins is the one who will die. '' how plainly does it have to be said ?
Jimmy
King Phenomenon
When your dead your dead
When the body dies, if allowed decomposition as per the natural order of things, the elements are only dispersed.
The human has a soul before the body and brain develops and thus logical, it can exist without the body.
Regards Tony
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
One can have eternal life on earth and in heaven since eternal life is nearness to God.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
I understand that, Spiritual death, not a literal death. It is death of Spiritual qualities in the soul. But the soul itself is immortal.
For example Jesus said, "let the dead bury their dead".
That person was not dead literally. But was Spiritually dead. Such a person, if he died his soul will live on, but it is counted among the dead ones, meaning those who are like dead, do not understand.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
I have a vast collection of books on ghosts, hauntings, ghost-hunting, parapsychology, and various other topics related to the paranormal. However, none of these books can compare to my forty-five years of experience as a spirit medium and my seventeen years as a seasoned paranormal investigator. I have a lifetime's worth of firsthand encounters with earthbound human spirits, as well as encounters with elementals and other entities. 45 years is a long time.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Luke 9:60 NLT
But Jesus told him, “Let the spiritually dead bury their own dead! Your duty is to go and preach about the Kingdom of God.”