What if these Christian beliefs are not true?

[Trailblazer]

John 5:28-29 New King James Version
Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Sorry, but these verses say nothing about Jesus returning to earth. Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once on the NT.
Jesus said that his work was finished here and he was no more in the world and the world would see him no more.
(John 14:19, John 16:10, John 17:4, John 17:11)

John 5 KJV

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

My interpretation:

Whoever hears the words of Jesus and believes in God who sent Jesus will have everlasting life, which is spiritual life, nearness to God.
The hour is coming when the spiritually dead will become spiritually alive and they will have everlasting life, which is nearness to God.
(Everlasting life is not a duration of life, it is a quality of life which comes from nearness to God.)

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

My interpretation:

The hour is coming when those who are asleep in their graves of ignorance about Christ will wake up and no longer be ignorant of Christ...
(Asleep in the grave is a metaphor for being ignorant of Christ.)

Those who have done good will be transformed to spiritual life, and those who have done evil will be damned to the hell of their own making.

 

[Trailblazer]

John 12:12-15 King James Version
On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord. And Jesus, when he had found a young ***, sat thereon; as it is written, Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ***'s colt.

We have three words in these verses: Jerusalem, King of Israel, and Jesus affirming: thy King cometh.

Yes, Jesus was the King of the Jews while Jesus lived on earth, but that does not mean that Jesus is a King who will rule everyone on earth in the latter days.

 

[Trailblazer]

The text clearly states that "the hour is coming," which implies a future event, not merely a present spiritual transformation, when all who are in the graves will hear the voice of Jesus.

"The hour is coming" implies a future event, when there will be a spiritual transformation, when all who are in the graves will hear the voice of Jesus.
(Graves being ignorance of Jesus and voice being someone in the future who would testify of Jesus.)

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Why, then, had that moment not yet arrived when Jesus spoke these words?

That moment had not yet arrived when Jesus spoke these words because Jesus was referring to a future event, when the Comforter/Spirit of truth would come.

 

[Trailblazer]

you likely confuse ''world of mankind'' with ''earth'' ,they are two different things.

Earth is the planet where mankind resides. Thus earth is the world of mankind and other creatures, all living things.

as it stands Jesus is king , sets as a king . when he stands ,you may want to hope you were already dead. it could get really ugly. not everyone saying lord lord ,we helped you ,will have his favor.

Jesus is ruling in heaven. Jesus will never rule on earth, since Jesus is in heaven and there he will remain forever.

"The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Paris Talks, Pages 54-57

as for returning in the person of Baha'u'llah, someone pulled the wool over your eyes.

Nobody pulled any wool over my eyes, I figured it out all by myself. The Bible prophecies that He fulfilled are sufficient proof of who He was.

 

[cataway]

"The hour is coming" implies a future event, when there will be a spiritual transformation, when all who are in the graves will hear the voice of Jesus.
(Graves being ignorance of Jesus and voice being someone in the future who would testify of Jesus.)

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

''And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever, '' Forever ?? what happens to Baha'u'llah ? oh he died .what happened to forever ? could it be you's have taken some verses out of context ?? me thinks YES
continue reading .

17 the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you. 18 I will not leave you bereaved. I am coming to you. 19 In a little while the world will see me no more, but you will see me, because I live and you will live

 

[Trailblazer]

''And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever, '' Forever ?? what happens to Baha'u'llah ? oh he died .what happened to forever ? could it be you's have taken some verses out of context ?? me thinks YES

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

The Comforter is a title that Jesus gave to Baha'u'llah since Baha'u'llah brought the Holy Spirit which helps and comforts people.
Jesus was a Comforter and Baha'u'llah was another Comforter.

The Helper/Comforter is the Holy Spirit which will be with them forever.

continue reading .

17 the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you.

The world could not receive the Spirit of truth back when Jesus said that because the world was not ready. That is why Jesus said:

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

18 I will not leave you bereaved. I am coming to you. 19 In a little while the world will see me no more, but you will see me, because I live and you will live

Jesus meant that his spirit would be coming (in the person of Baha'u'llah, who was the Spirit of truth).
Even though the world would not see the body of Jesus anymore they will see (recognize) the spirit of Jesus in the person of Baha'u'llah and because of that they will live (have eternal life), which is the state of a soul who is near to God in the heart.

* These are my personal interpretations of the verses, knowing what I know about who Baha'u'llah was.

 

[Betho_br]

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

The Comforter is a title that Jesus gave to Baha'u'llah since Baha'u'llah brought the Holy Spirit which helps and comforts people.
Jesus was a Comforter and Baha'u'llah was another Comforter.

The Helper/Comforter is the Holy Spirit which will be with them forever.

The world could not receive the Spirit of truth back when Jesus said that because the world was not ready. That is why Jesus said:

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Jesus meant that his spirit would be coming (in the person of Baha'u'llah, who was the Spirit of truth).
Even though the world would not see the body of Jesus anymore they will see (recognize) the spirit of Jesus in the person of Baha'u'llah and because of that they will live (have eternal life), which is the state of a soul who is near to God in the heart.

* These are my personal interpretations of the verses, knowing what I know about who Baha'u'llah was.

In the context of the New Testament, especially in the passage of Luke 23:39-43, "paradise" refers to the place where Jesus promises the repentant criminal he will be with Him after his death, in response to the question, "when you come into your kingdom." This promise suggests that paradise is a state of communion with Him in a pre-kingdom state, implying a place of blessing and peace after death. The interpretation of "paradise" as part of Jesus' Kingdom can be understood within the Christian context of the time.

Intermediate State: In Christian theology, paradise is often seen as a place or state where the souls of the righteous are with Christ after death, but before the final resurrection (2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:23).

Final Resurrection: The traditional view is that God's Kingdom will be fully realized at the resurrection when Christ returns and establishes His dominion on Earth (1 Corinthians 15:52-54).

Anticipation of the Kingdom: Paradise is, therefore, a state of rest and communion with God, anticipating the complete reality of Jesus' Kingdom.

How do you interpret this recent Christian theology?

 

[Trailblazer]

The interpretation of "paradise" as part of Jesus' Kingdom can be understood within the Christian context of the time.

Intermediate State: In Christian theology, paradise is often seen as a place or state where the souls of the righteous are with Christ after death, but before the final resurrection (2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:23).

Final Resurrection: The traditional view is that God's Kingdom will be fully realized at the resurrection when Christ returns and establishes His dominion on Earth (1 Corinthians 15:52-54).

Anticipation of the Kingdom: Paradise is, therefore, a state of rest and communion with God, anticipating the complete reality of Jesus' Kingdom.

How do you interpret this recent Christian theology?

I won't try to interpret it since you have already explained it, but I will comment on it, interjecting what I believe as a Baha'i.

The interpretation of "paradise" as part of Jesus' Kingdom can be understood within the Christian context of the time.

• I do not believe paradise is part of Jesus' Kingdom
• I believe that Paradise is a state of rest and communion with God but I don't believe in Paradise on earth. I believe Paradise will be in heaven.
• I believe the Kingdom of God will be established on earth, and it will be built by humans who are following the counsels of Baha'u'llah. (I can explain more about that in another post if you want me to, because I don't want to go into detail here and make this post too long.)

Intermediate State: In Christian theology, paradise is often seen as a place or state where the souls of the righteous are with Christ after death, but before the final resurrection (2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:23).

• I do not believe any of that Christian theology and I don't think those verses you cited support it.
• I believe that at the moment of death all souls (be they good or evil) ascend to the spiritual world. To put it in Christian terms, the good/saved souls go to heaven and the bad/unsaved souls go to hell.
• To a Baha'i heaven and hell are not geographical locations where people go after they die. Heaven can be seen as nearness to God and hell is distance from God; not physical nearness or distance but rather close or far from God in the mind and heart.
• Baha'is do bot believe in a physical resurrection from the grave.

“According to the Bahá’í teaching the Resurrection has nothing to do with the gross physical body. That body, once dead, is done with. It becomes decomposed and its atoms will never be recomposed into the same body.

Resurrection is the birth of the individual to spiritual life, through the gift of the Holy Spirit bestowed through the Manifestation of God. The grave from which he arises is the grave of ignorance and negligence of God. The sleep from which he awakens is the dormant spiritual condition in which many await the dawn of the Day of God. This dawn illumines all who have lived on the face of the earth, whether they are in the body or out of the body, but those who are spiritually blind cannot perceive it. The Day of Resurrection is not a day of twenty-four hours, but an era which has now begun and will last as long as the present world cycle continues. It will continue when all traces of the present civilization will have been wiped off the surface of the globe.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, Pages 220-222

Final Resurrection: The traditional view is that God's Kingdom will be fully realized at the resurrection when Christ returns and establishes His dominion on Earth (1 Corinthians 15:52-54).

• The Baha'i view is that God's Kingdom was ushered in when Christ returned in the Person of Baha'u'llah, who and revealed the blueprint instructions - what will be necessary for humans to build the Kingdom of God on earth. This is also referred to as the new world order.

Baha'u'llah referred to this new age as the Day of God and He further stated that this is the Day in which humanity would be united in perfect unity and peace.

“This is the Day in which God’s most excellent favors have been poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care and loving-kindness. It behoveth them to cleave to whatsoever will, in this Day, be conducive to the exaltation of their stations, and to the promotion of their best interests. Happy are those whom the all-glorious Pen was moved to remember, and blessed are those men whose names, by virtue of Our inscrutable decree, We have preferred to conceal.

Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 6-7

Anticipation of the Kingdom: Paradise is, therefore, a state of rest and communion with God, anticipating the complete reality of Jesus' Kingdom.

• For a Baha'i there is nothing to anticipate because paradise is already here. We believe that paradise is recognition of God's Manifestation for this age, who we believe is Baha'u'llah, which brings us communion with God.

“At the time of the appearance and manifestation of the rays of the Daystar of Truth, all occupy the same station. God then proclaimeth that which He willeth, and whoso heareth His call and acknowledgeth His truth is accounted among the inhabitants of Paradise. Such a soul hath traversed the Bridge, the Balance, and all that hath been recorded regarding the Day of Resurrection, and hath reached his destination.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Tabernacle of Unity, Pages 57-65

The Day of Resurrection is the birth of the individual to spiritual life, through the gift of the Holy Spirit bestowed through the Manifestation of God.

 

[cataway]

the helper is the spirit of the truth. it was not Baha'u'llah

 

[Trailblazer]

the helper is the spirit of the truth. it was not Baha'u'llah

The helper is the Spirit of Truth. Baha'u'llah was the Spirit of Truth, according to my beliefs. Can you prove otherwise?

“O kings of Christendom! Heard ye not the saying of Jesus, the Spirit of God, “I go away, and come again unto you”? Wherefore, then, did ye fail, when He did come again unto you in the clouds of heaven, to draw nigh unto Him, that ye might behold His face, and be of them that attained His Presence? In another passage He saith: “When He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth.” And yet, behold how, when He did bring the truth, ye refused to turn your faces towards Him, and persisted in disporting yourselves with your pastimes and fancies. Ye welcomed Him not, neither did ye seek His Presence, that ye might hear the verses of God from His own mouth, and partake of the manifold wisdom of the Almighty, the All-Glorious, the All-Wise.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 246-249

 

[Trailblazer]

the helper is the spirit of the truth. it was not Baha'u'llah

John 14, 15 and 16 says that the Comforter/Spirit of truth will do all these things on the list below, but it makes no sense that the Holy Spirit could do the those things. Only a man who had the Holy Spirit could do those things by speaking and writing. Baha'u'llah has done all these things.

Teach you all things
Call to remembrance what Jesus said
Testify of Jesus
Glorify Jesus, receive of Jesus, and shew it unto you
Guide you into all truth
Speak what He hears and shew you things to come
Reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment

 

[cataway]

if you are thinking the Spirit of truth is a man you will be looking a long time . hint ....its not a man

 

[Trailblazer]

if you are thinking the Spirit of truth is a man you will be looking a long time . hint ....its not a man

If you think that the Spirit of truth is a spirit living inside people or a spirit floating in mid-air you will be looking for a long time.
Hint: the Spirit of truth is a man who brought the Holy Spirit to humanity and did everything Jesus promised he would do.

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

 

[Colt]

The following list contains some beliefs that are central to Christianity.

1) Jesus is God
2) Jesus is the only way to God
3) Jesus rose from the dead
4) Jesus is going to return to earth

But what if these beliefs are not true?

Of course this is hypothetical since these are beliefs that cannot be proven either true or false.

However, this post is based on the assumption that the above list of beliefs are false.
If that is the case, I have two questions:

- Could Christianity still be a true religion from God?
- How would that change Christianity now and in the future?

I am particularly interested in 4), the belief that Jesus is going to return to earth. Many Christians will continue to wait for Jesus to return as long as they 'believe' that Jesus will return someday, but what if all Christians realized that Jesus is never going to return to earth?

If it isn’t true then Jesus isn’t and wasn’t trustworthy which would cast doubt on all religions.

 

[cataway]

If you think that the Spirit of truth is a spirit living inside people or a spirit floating in mid-air you will be looking for a long time.
Hint: the Spirit of truth is a man who brought the Holy Spirit to humanity and did everything Jesus promised he would do.
thing like that
John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

no nothing like that.

when people ,like your self ,go into temple do people stand around talking .do they have to be reminded its time to set down ? when service is over ,do people stand around talking or just get up and go home?

 

[Trailblazer]

If it isn’t true then Jesus isn’t and wasn’t trustworthy which would cast doubt on all religions.

What do you mean by it?
Are you referring to the 'belief 'that Jesus is going to return to earth?

Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament. Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world. That means that the return of Christ has to be another Person.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

No more means no further, never again.
Why Christians cannot understand plain English is beyond me.

 

[Trailblazer]

no nothing like that.

when people ,like your self ,go into temple do people stand around talking .do they have to be reminded its time to set down ? when service is over ,do people stand around talking or just get up and go home?

Can you answer my questions directly?
What do you think the Spirit of truth is, the Holy Spirit?
If the Spirit of truth is NOT a spirit living inside people or a spirit floating in mid-air then what is it?

John 14, 15 and 16 says that the Comforter which is also the Spirit of truth will do all these things on the list below.
How do you think the Spirit of truth could do all these things on the list below if it is not a man?
The verses say he will do these things, and he is a man, not a spirit. A spirit cannot do any of these things.

Teach you all things
Call to remembrance what Jesus said
Testify of Jesus
Glorify Jesus, receive of Jesus, and shew it unto you
Guide you into all truth
Speak what He hears and shew you things to come
Reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment

 

[Link]

No more means no further, never again.

This is conjecture. It can mean for a period of time. The implicit would be understood if other verses say he will return which they do.

 

[Trailblazer]

This is conjecture. It can mean for a period of time. The implicit would be understood if other verses say he will return which they do.

No, no more cannot mean for a period of time.
No more means no further, never again -- at any time.

no more

nothing further.
"there was no more to be said about it"

no further.
"you must have some soup, but no more wine"

exist no longer.
"the patch of ground was overgrown and the hut was no more"

never again.
"mention his name no more to me"

neither.
"I had no complaints and no more did Tom"


Moreover, there are no other verses say that Jesus will return to earth.

 

[Link]

No, no more cannot mean for a period of time.

Of course it can. And other languages are contextually based.