What about Uzair (a) in the Quran? His story is mentioned in Surah Baqara (2nd Chapter).Agreed.....
Tell that to the Christians.
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What if these Christian beliefs are not true?
- Thread starter Trailblazer
- Start date
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
L
God created both Light and Darkness. He created knowledge and ignorance. He created guidance and falsehood.
Then He gave us Mind, the power of thinking.
He gave us choice, which to choose. Light or darkness. Knowledge or Superstitious. Guidance or falsehood.
He did this, by including two types of verses. One type, are Muhkamaat, these are light. They are the true guidance. Another type, are Mutishabihat. These are misleading. Whoever goes after them, thinking them as literally true, taking their Apparent as true, will be Mislead.
Who is to blame? Then one who does not use his mind to distinguish light from darkness? That is how God tests.
God created both Light and Darkness. He created knowledge and ignorance. He created guidance and falsehood.
Then He gave us Mind, the power of thinking.
He gave us choice, which to choose. Light or darkness. Knowledge or Superstitious. Guidance or falsehood.
He did this, by including two types of verses. One type, are Muhkamaat, these are light. They are the true guidance. Another type, are Mutishabihat. These are misleading. Whoever goes after them, thinking them as literally true, taking their Apparent as true, will be Mislead.
Who is to blame? Then one who does not use his mind to distinguish light from darkness? That is how God tests.
The God of yours is disgusting and make me want to vomit. But to each their own.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Like I told you before, I do not know the Qur'an.
However, I do not believe any stories about people being raised from the dead are actually true stories.
Nobody comes back to life after being dead for a certain length of time.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
The God of yours is disgusting and make me want to vomit. But to each their own.
If Quran meant that people literally will be resurrected after death, or that ever such a thing happend, then it is falsehood book. It couldn't be from God.
أَوْ كَالَّذِي مَرَّ عَلَىٰ قَرْيَةٍ وَهِيَ خَاوِيَةٌ عَلَىٰ عُرُوشِهَا قَالَ أَنَّىٰ يُحْيِي هَٰذِهِ اللَّهُ بَعْدَ مَوْتِهَا ۖ فَأَمَاتَهُ اللَّهُ مِائَةَ عَامٍ ثُمَّ بَعَثَهُ ۖ قَالَ كَمْ لَبِثْتَ ۖ قَالَ لَبِثْتُ يَوْمًا أَوْ بَعْضَ يَوْمٍ ۖ قَالَ بَلْ لَبِثْتَ مِائَةَ عَامٍ فَانْظُرْ إِلَىٰ طَعَامِكَ وَشَرَابِكَ لَمْ يَتَسَنَّهْ ۖ وَانْظُرْ إِلَىٰ حِمَارِكَ وَلِنَجْعَلَكَ آيَةً لِلنَّاسِ ۖ وَانْظُرْ إِلَى الْعِظَامِ كَيْفَ نُنْشِزُهَا ثُمَّ نَكْسُوهَا لَحْمًا ۚ فَلَمَّا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُ قَالَ أَعْلَمُ أَنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ | Or him who came upon a township as it lay fallen on its trellises. He said, ‘How will Allah revive this after its death?!’ So Allah made him die for a hundred years, then He resurrected him. He said, ‘How long did you remain?’ Said he, ‘I have remained a day or part of a day.’ He said, ‘No, you have remained a hundred years. Now look at your food and drink which have not rotted! Then look at your ***! [This was done] that We may make you a sign for mankind. And now look at its bones, how We raise them up and clothe them with flesh!’ When it became evident to him, he said, ‘I know that Allah has power over all things.’ | Al-Baqara : 259
There is also:
Have you not considered those who went forth from their homes, for fear of death, and they were thousands, then Allah said to them, Die; again He gave them life; most surely Allah is Gracious to people, but most people are not grateful.
فَقُلْنَا اضْرِبُوهُ بِبَعْضِهَا ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ يُحْيِي اللَّهُ الْمَوْتَىٰ وَيُرِيكُمْ آيَاتِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ | We said, ‘Strike him with a piece of it:’ thus does Allah revive the dead, and He shows you His signs so that you may exercise your reason. | Al-Baqara : 73
And also the four birds that Ibrahim (a) calls from the dead back to life.
Seems this is a quite a theme in the second chapter.
If this is the case, it's better to look for a God who didn't reveal the Quran then the disgusting deceiving one you worship.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Then it is sure a good thing that the Qur'an doesn't mean that.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
So a God that doesn't bring dead bodies back to life is disgusting?
If he talks about it as if he does but is deceiving by speech that he doesn't, and in reality only a very small religion is right about it, and none of them would of thought of it that way if they didn't follow the Prophet they follow, then that is disgusting and deceiving type Lord.
It's a not a Lord interested in guiding humanity.
I believe the only thing that keeps people from seeing the clear recitation is that people harden their hearts and give in the sorcery and call of Iblis and his locks prevent them from sorcery from perceiving.
God sent Ahlulbayt (a) to clarify all this and break the sorcery, but people don't even reflect over their words with the Quran. They don't given the sent ones a chance to guide.
So God is doing his best with my view to guide mankind and threw examples and parables of the past to guide us but they are unjust with the warnings and take all these as mere stories, but with your way, he is going out of his way to misguide most of mankind and you have to disbelieve in the first impression and come up with weird meanings that no one accepts except if they follow your Prophet.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, it is Jesus that says that Jesus is not coming back, not the Baha'i Writings.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
That is absolutely false. Much of what Christians believe is considered true by the Baha'is, all the teachings of Jesus.
What we consider wrong are the doctrines of the church, mainly 1-4 from the OP.
1) Jesus is God
2) Jesus is the only way to God
3) Jesus rose from the dead
4) Jesus is going to return to earth
Disagreeing with certain beliefs of other religions is not picking them apart. To agree with what we do not believe would be dishonest.
Christians also disagree with Baha'is but I never see you picking the Christians apart when they disagree.
The Baha'i Faith is only true if it is true. That is determined by God. It has nothing to do with what anyone believes.
Work well how? Maybe they work well for the individual but that does not take into consideration society as a whole.
None of the older religions have a plan for the transformation of society.
But the old one always has to find something wrong with the new religion to justify why there is no need for a new religion.
It is too soon to tell what effect the Baha'i Faith will have on peace and unity.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
“And yet they bear witness to this well-known tradition: “Verily Our Word is abstruse, bewilderingly abstruse.” In another instance, it is said: “Our Cause is sorely trying, highly perplexing; none can bear it except a favorite of heaven, or an inspired Prophet, or he whose faith God hath tested.””
The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 82
"Meditate profoundly, that the secret of things unseen may be revealed unto you, that you may inhale the sweetness of a spiritual and imperishable fragrance, and that you may acknowledge the truth that from time immemorial even unto eternity the Almighty hath tried, and will continue to try, His servants, so that light may be distinguished from darkness, truth from falsehood, right from wrong, guidance from error, happiness from misery, and roses from thorns. Even as He hath revealed: “Do men think when they say ‘We believe’ they shall be let alone and not be put to proof?”
The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 8-9
The words of Ahlulbayt (a) are not easy to accept at first go. It takes humility and then their wonders appear. But the wonders appear because of the mental clarity they give and how clear it has been. What makes it hard and difficult, you have to keep in mind what Surah Hajj says regarding what Satan casts as a trial for hard hearts.
The words of Ahlulbait (a) will help defeat the dark magic, but the dark magic causes arrogance towards their words, and people don't know how to approach their words and Quran together except for a believer who reflects humbly over it, gives them a proper chance.
There is also the fact the community is supposed to learn together and teach others.
4ـ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى وَغَيْرُهُ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أَحْمَدَ عَنْ بَعْضِ أَصْحَابِنَا قَالَ كَتَبْتُ إِلَى أَبِي الْحَسَنِ صَاحِبِ الْعَسْكَرِ (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) جُعِلْتُ فِدَاكَ مَا مَعْنَى قَوْلِ الصَّادِقِ (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) حَدِيثُنَا لا يَحْتَمِلُهُ مَلَكٌ مُقَرَّبٌ وَلا نَبِيٌّ مُرْسَلٌ وَلا مُؤْمِنٌ امْتَحَنَ الله قَلْبَهُ لِلايمَانِ فَجَاءَ الْجَوَابُ إِنَّمَا مَعْنَى قَوْلِ الصَّادِقِ (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) أَيْ لا يَحْتَمِلُهُ مَلَكٌ وَلا نَبِيٌّ وَلا مُؤْمِنٌ إِنَّ الْمَلَكَ لا يَحْتَمِلُهُ حَتَّى يُخْرِجَهُ إِلَى مَلَكٍ غَيْرِهِ وَالنَّبِيُّ لا يَحْتَمِلُهُ حَتَّى يُخْرِجَهُ إِلَى نَبِيٍّ غَيْرِهِ وَالْمُؤْمِنُ لا يَحْتَمِلُهُ حَتَّى يُخْرِجَهُ إِلَى مُؤْمِنٍ غَيْرِهِ فَهَذَا مَعْنَى قَوْلِ جَدِّي (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام )
4. Muhammad ibn Yahya and others have narrated from Muhammad ibn Ahmad from one of our people the following. “I wrote to Imam al-Hassan al_’Askari (a.s.) saying, May Allah take my soul in service for your cause, what is the meaning of the following Hadith of Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq (a.s.)? “Our Hadith (statements) are difficult and they become difficult. No one is capable to bear them not even an angel or a prophet who is also a messenger or a believer whose heart Allah has tested for faith.?” The answer came as herein below. “The meaning of the words the truthful one ‘that angels, prophets and believers are not capable to accept them’ is that of the truthful one is that the angel does bear it until he deliver it to other angels. The prophet does noor bear it until he delivers it to another prophet and the believer does not bear it until he delivers to another believer. This is the meaning of the words of my grandfather.”
Al-Kāfi - Volume 1, The Hadith (statements) of Ahl al-Bayt (members of the family of Prophet Muhammad) is Difficult and becomes Difficult, Hadith #4
thaqalayn.net
5ـ أَحْمَدُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْحُسَيْنِ عَنْ مَنْصُورِ بْنِ الْعَبَّاسِ عَنْ صَفْوَانَ بْنِ يَحْيَى عَنْ عَبْدِ الله بْنِ مُسْكَانَ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَبْدِ الْخَالِقِ وَأَبِي بَصِيرٍ قَالَ قَالَ أَبُو عَبْدِ الله (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) يَا أَبَا مُحَمَّدٍ إِنَّ عِنْدَنَا وَالله سِرّاً مِنْ سِرِّ الله وَعِلْماً مِنْ عِلْمِ الله وَالله مَا يَحْتَمِلُهُ مَلَكٌ مُقَرَّبٌ وَلا نَبِيٌّ مُرْسَلٌ وَلا مُؤْمِنٌ امْتَحَنَ الله قَلْبَهُ لِلايمَانِ وَالله مَا كَلَّفَ الله ذَلِكَ أَحَداً غَيْرَنَا وَلا اسْتَعْبَدَ بِذَلِكَ أَحَداً غَيْرَنَا وَإِنَّ عِنْدَنَا سِرّاً مِنْ سِرِّ الله وَعِلْماً مِنْ عِلْمِ الله أَمَرَنَا الله بِتَبْلِيغِهِ فَبَلَّغْنَا عَنِ الله عَزَّ وَجَلَّ مَا أَمَرَنَا بِتَبْلِيغِهِ فَلَمْ نَجِدْ لَهُ مَوْضِعاً وَلا أَهْلاً وَلا حَمَّالَةً يَحْتَمِلُونَهُ حَتَّى خَلَقَ الله لِذَلِكَ أَقْوَاماً خُلِقُوا مِنْ طِينَةٍ خُلِقَ مِنْهَا مُحَمَّدٌ وَآلُهُ وَذُرِّيَّتُهُ (عَلَيْهم السَّلام) وَمِنْ نُورٍ خَلَقَ الله مِنْهُ مُحَمَّداً وَذُرِّيَّتَهُ وَصَنَعَهُمْ بِفَضْلِ رَحْمَتِهِ الَّتِي صَنَعَ مِنْهَا مُحَمَّداً وَذُرِّيَّتَهُ فَبَلَّغْنَا عَنِ الله مَا أَمَرَنَا بِتَبْلِيغِهِ فَقَبِلُوهُ وَاحْتَمَلُوا ذَلِكَ فَبَلَغَهُمْ ذَلِكَ عَنَّا فَقَبِلُوهُ وَاحْتَمَلُوهُ وَبَلَغَهُمْ ذِكْرُنَا فَمَالَتْ قُلُوبُهُمْ إِلَى مَعْرِفَتِنَا وَحَدِيثِنَا فَلَوْ لا أَنَّهُمْ خُلِقُوا مِنْ هَذَا لَمَا كَانُوا كَذَلِكَ لا وَالله مَا احْتَمَلُوهُ ثُمَّ قَالَ إِنَّ الله خَلَقَ أَقْوَاماً لِجَهَنَّمَ وَالنَّارِ فَأَمَرَنَا أَنْ نُبَلِّغَهُمْ كَمَا بَلَّغْنَاهُمْ وَاشْمَأَزُّوا مِنْ ذَلِكَ وَنَفَرَتْ قُلُوبُهُمْ وَرَدُّوهُ عَلَيْنَا وَلَمْ يَحْتَمِلُوهُ وَكَذَّبُوا بِهِ وَقَالُوا سَاحِرٌ كَذَّابٌ فَطَبَعَ الله عَلَى قُلُوبِهِمْ وَأَنْسَاهُمْ ذَلِكَ ثُمَّ أَطْلَقَ الله لِسَانَهُمْ بِبَعْضِ الْحَقِّ فَهُمْ يَنْطِقُونَ بِهِ وَقُلُوبُهُمْ مُنْكِرَةٌ لِيَكُونَ ذَلِكَ دَفْعاً عَنْ أَوْلِيَائِهِ وَأَهْلِ طَاعَتِهِ وَلَوْ لا ذَلِكَ مَا عُبِدَ الله فِي أَرْضِهِ فَأَمَرَنَا بِالْكَفِّ عَنْهُمْ وَالسَّتْرِ وَالْكِتْمَانِ فَاكْتُمُوا عَمَّنْ أَمَرَ الله بِالْكَفِّ عَنْهُ وَاسْتُرُوا عَمَّنْ أَمَرَ الله بِالسَّتْرِ وَالْكِتْمَانِ عَنْهُ قَالَ ثُمَّ رَفَعَ يَدَهُ وَبَكَى وَقَالَ اللهمَّ إِنَّ هَؤُلاءِ لَشِرْذِمَةٌ قَلِيلُونَ فَاجْعَلْ مَحْيَانَا مَحْيَاهُمْ وَمَمَاتَنَا مَمَاتَهُمْ وَلا تُسَلِّطْ عَلَيْهِمْ عَدُوّاً لَكَ فَتُفْجِعَنَا بِهِمْ فَإِنَّكَ إِنْ أَفْجَعْتَنَا بِهِمْ لَمْ تُعْبَدْ أَبَداً فِي أَرْضِكَ وَصَلَّى الله عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ وَآلِهِ وَسَلَّمَ تَسْلِيماً.
5. Ahmad ibn Muhammad has narrated from Muhammad ibn al-Husayn from Mansur ibn al-‘Abbass from Safwan ibn Yahya from ‘Abdallah ibn Muskan from Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Khaliq and abu Basir who has said the following. “Abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) said, ‘O abu Muhammad, with us there is a secret of the secrets of Allah and a knowledge of the knowledge of Allah. No angel, near to Allah or a prophet who is a messenger also and no believer whose heart Allah has tested for faith is capable to bear. By Allah, Allah has not required anyone to bear it except us nor has He required anyone to worship him in that way except us. With us there is a secret of the secrets of Allah and a knowledge of the knowledge of Allah. Allah has commanded us to preach it We then preached what Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most gracious, had commanded us to preaCh However, we did not find a proper place for it or a people or bearers who accept it until Allah created certain tribes. These people were created from the clay out of which Muhammad and his descendants were created and from a light from which Allah had created Muhammad and his descendants. He made them with the excess of the making of His blessings out of which He had made Muhammad and his descendants. We then preached what Allah had commanded us to preach then these people accepted and acknowledged that. [It reached them from us and they accepted and acknowledged it]. Our mention reached them and their hearts inclined towards us, recognizing us and our hadith. Had they not been created from this they would not have been as suCh No, by Allah, they would not have acknowledged.” Then the Imam (a.s.) said, “Allah created certain tribes for Hell and fire. He then commanded us to preach to them as we had preached to them but to the later ones it seemed repugnant and their hearts felt hatred and they rejected it from us, did not acknowledge it and considered it as lies and they said, “They are magicians and liars.” Allah then placed a seal on their hearts and made them to forget. Allah then opened their tongue with some of the truth. Thus, they speak of it but their hearts are in denial. He uses it in defense of His friends and those who obey Him. Had it not been there no one would have worshipped Allah on earth. He commanded us to withheld it from them, hide and conceal. You must also hide it from those that Allah has commanded to withheld from and hide from those that Allah has commanded to hide and withheld from.” The narrator has said that the Imam (a.s.) then raised his hands and wept and said, “O Lord, this is a very small group. Make our lives as their lives and our death like their death. Do not make dominant over them any of Your enemies that would cause us suffer pains for their suffering. If You would allow it to cause pains to us because of their sufferings no one would worship You on earth. May Allah send blessing up on Muhammad and his Ahl al-Bayt and may (Your) peace and more peace be with them.”
Al-Kāfi - Volume 1, The Hadith (statements) of Ahl al-Bayt (members of the family of Prophet Muhammad) is Difficult and becomes Difficult, Hadith #5
thaqalayn.net
1ـ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْحُسَيْنِ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ سِنَانٍ عَنْ عَمَّارِ بْنِ مَرْوَانَ عَنْ جَابِرٍ قَالَ قَالَ أَبُو جَعْفَرٍ (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) قَالَ رَسُولُ الله (صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِه) إِنَّ حَدِيثَ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ صَعْبٌ مُسْتَصْعَبٌ لا يُؤْمِنُ بِهِ إِلا مَلَكٌ مُقَرَّبٌ أَوْ نَبِيٌّ مُرْسَلٌ أَوْ عَبْدٌ امْتَحَنَ الله قَلْبَهُ لِلايمَانِ فَمَا وَرَدَ عَلَيْكُمْ مِنْ حَدِيثِ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ (صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِه) فَلانَتْ لَهُ قُلُوبُكُمْ وَعَرَفْتُمُوهُ فَاقْبَلُوهُ وَمَا اشْمَأَزَّتْ مِنْهُ قُلُوبُكُمْ وَأَنْكَرْتُمُوهُ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى الله وَإِلَى الرَّسُولِ وَإِلَى الْعَالِمِ مِنْ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ وَإِنَّمَا الْهَالِكُ أَنْ يُحَدِّثَ أَحَدُكُمْ بِشَيْءٍ مِنْهُ لا يَحْتَمِلُهُ فَيَقُولَ وَالله مَا كَانَ هَذَا وَالله مَا كَانَ هَذَا وَالانْكَارُ هُوَ الْكُفْرُ.
1. d ibn Sinan from ‘Ammar ibn Marwan from Jabir who has said the following. “Abu Ja‘far (a.s.) has said that the Messenger of Allah has said, ‘The Hadith (statements) of Ahl al-Bayt (members of the family of Prophet Muhammad) is difficult and it becomes difficult. No one believes in it except the angels that are close to Allah or the Prophets who are Messengers also, a servant of Allah whose He has tested for faith. Whatever would come to you of the Hadith (statements) of Ahl al-Bayt of Muhammad (members of the family of Prophet Muhammad), if your heart would feel relief and you recognized them accept them. Whatever that would cause antipathy in your hearts and you could not recognize leave them to Allah, to the Messenger of Allah and the scholar from Ahl al-Bayt of Muhammad. The ones to perish are those who do not accept Hadith of Ahl al-Bayt (members of the family of Prophet Muhammad).Whenever one is narrated to them they say, “By Allah, this was not and that was not.” Denial is disbelief.”
Al-Kāfi - Volume 1, The Hadith (statements) of Ahl al-Bayt (members of the family of Prophet Muhammad) is Difficult and becomes Difficult, Hadith #1
The words of Ahlulbait (a) will help defeat the dark magic, but the dark magic causes arrogance towards their words, and people don't know how to approach their words and Quran together except for a believer who reflects humbly over it, gives them a proper chance.
There is also the fact the community is supposed to learn together and teach others.
4ـ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى وَغَيْرُهُ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أَحْمَدَ عَنْ بَعْضِ أَصْحَابِنَا قَالَ كَتَبْتُ إِلَى أَبِي الْحَسَنِ صَاحِبِ الْعَسْكَرِ (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) جُعِلْتُ فِدَاكَ مَا مَعْنَى قَوْلِ الصَّادِقِ (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) حَدِيثُنَا لا يَحْتَمِلُهُ مَلَكٌ مُقَرَّبٌ وَلا نَبِيٌّ مُرْسَلٌ وَلا مُؤْمِنٌ امْتَحَنَ الله قَلْبَهُ لِلايمَانِ فَجَاءَ الْجَوَابُ إِنَّمَا مَعْنَى قَوْلِ الصَّادِقِ (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) أَيْ لا يَحْتَمِلُهُ مَلَكٌ وَلا نَبِيٌّ وَلا مُؤْمِنٌ إِنَّ الْمَلَكَ لا يَحْتَمِلُهُ حَتَّى يُخْرِجَهُ إِلَى مَلَكٍ غَيْرِهِ وَالنَّبِيُّ لا يَحْتَمِلُهُ حَتَّى يُخْرِجَهُ إِلَى نَبِيٍّ غَيْرِهِ وَالْمُؤْمِنُ لا يَحْتَمِلُهُ حَتَّى يُخْرِجَهُ إِلَى مُؤْمِنٍ غَيْرِهِ فَهَذَا مَعْنَى قَوْلِ جَدِّي (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام )
4. Muhammad ibn Yahya and others have narrated from Muhammad ibn Ahmad from one of our people the following. “I wrote to Imam al-Hassan al_’Askari (a.s.) saying, May Allah take my soul in service for your cause, what is the meaning of the following Hadith of Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq (a.s.)? “Our Hadith (statements) are difficult and they become difficult. No one is capable to bear them not even an angel or a prophet who is also a messenger or a believer whose heart Allah has tested for faith.?” The answer came as herein below. “The meaning of the words the truthful one ‘that angels, prophets and believers are not capable to accept them’ is that of the truthful one is that the angel does bear it until he deliver it to other angels. The prophet does noor bear it until he delivers it to another prophet and the believer does not bear it until he delivers to another believer. This is the meaning of the words of my grandfather.”
Al-Kāfi - Volume 1, The Hadith (statements) of Ahl al-Bayt (members of the family of Prophet Muhammad) is Difficult and becomes Difficult, Hadith #4
Hadith #4 - The Hadith (statements) of Ahl al-Bayt (members of the family of Prophet Muhammad) is Difficult and becomes Difficult | Thaqalayn
The Hadith (statements) of Ahl al-Bayt (members of the family of Prophet Muhammad) is Difficult and becomes Difficult
5ـ أَحْمَدُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْحُسَيْنِ عَنْ مَنْصُورِ بْنِ الْعَبَّاسِ عَنْ صَفْوَانَ بْنِ يَحْيَى عَنْ عَبْدِ الله بْنِ مُسْكَانَ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَبْدِ الْخَالِقِ وَأَبِي بَصِيرٍ قَالَ قَالَ أَبُو عَبْدِ الله (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) يَا أَبَا مُحَمَّدٍ إِنَّ عِنْدَنَا وَالله سِرّاً مِنْ سِرِّ الله وَعِلْماً مِنْ عِلْمِ الله وَالله مَا يَحْتَمِلُهُ مَلَكٌ مُقَرَّبٌ وَلا نَبِيٌّ مُرْسَلٌ وَلا مُؤْمِنٌ امْتَحَنَ الله قَلْبَهُ لِلايمَانِ وَالله مَا كَلَّفَ الله ذَلِكَ أَحَداً غَيْرَنَا وَلا اسْتَعْبَدَ بِذَلِكَ أَحَداً غَيْرَنَا وَإِنَّ عِنْدَنَا سِرّاً مِنْ سِرِّ الله وَعِلْماً مِنْ عِلْمِ الله أَمَرَنَا الله بِتَبْلِيغِهِ فَبَلَّغْنَا عَنِ الله عَزَّ وَجَلَّ مَا أَمَرَنَا بِتَبْلِيغِهِ فَلَمْ نَجِدْ لَهُ مَوْضِعاً وَلا أَهْلاً وَلا حَمَّالَةً يَحْتَمِلُونَهُ حَتَّى خَلَقَ الله لِذَلِكَ أَقْوَاماً خُلِقُوا مِنْ طِينَةٍ خُلِقَ مِنْهَا مُحَمَّدٌ وَآلُهُ وَذُرِّيَّتُهُ (عَلَيْهم السَّلام) وَمِنْ نُورٍ خَلَقَ الله مِنْهُ مُحَمَّداً وَذُرِّيَّتَهُ وَصَنَعَهُمْ بِفَضْلِ رَحْمَتِهِ الَّتِي صَنَعَ مِنْهَا مُحَمَّداً وَذُرِّيَّتَهُ فَبَلَّغْنَا عَنِ الله مَا أَمَرَنَا بِتَبْلِيغِهِ فَقَبِلُوهُ وَاحْتَمَلُوا ذَلِكَ فَبَلَغَهُمْ ذَلِكَ عَنَّا فَقَبِلُوهُ وَاحْتَمَلُوهُ وَبَلَغَهُمْ ذِكْرُنَا فَمَالَتْ قُلُوبُهُمْ إِلَى مَعْرِفَتِنَا وَحَدِيثِنَا فَلَوْ لا أَنَّهُمْ خُلِقُوا مِنْ هَذَا لَمَا كَانُوا كَذَلِكَ لا وَالله مَا احْتَمَلُوهُ ثُمَّ قَالَ إِنَّ الله خَلَقَ أَقْوَاماً لِجَهَنَّمَ وَالنَّارِ فَأَمَرَنَا أَنْ نُبَلِّغَهُمْ كَمَا بَلَّغْنَاهُمْ وَاشْمَأَزُّوا مِنْ ذَلِكَ وَنَفَرَتْ قُلُوبُهُمْ وَرَدُّوهُ عَلَيْنَا وَلَمْ يَحْتَمِلُوهُ وَكَذَّبُوا بِهِ وَقَالُوا سَاحِرٌ كَذَّابٌ فَطَبَعَ الله عَلَى قُلُوبِهِمْ وَأَنْسَاهُمْ ذَلِكَ ثُمَّ أَطْلَقَ الله لِسَانَهُمْ بِبَعْضِ الْحَقِّ فَهُمْ يَنْطِقُونَ بِهِ وَقُلُوبُهُمْ مُنْكِرَةٌ لِيَكُونَ ذَلِكَ دَفْعاً عَنْ أَوْلِيَائِهِ وَأَهْلِ طَاعَتِهِ وَلَوْ لا ذَلِكَ مَا عُبِدَ الله فِي أَرْضِهِ فَأَمَرَنَا بِالْكَفِّ عَنْهُمْ وَالسَّتْرِ وَالْكِتْمَانِ فَاكْتُمُوا عَمَّنْ أَمَرَ الله بِالْكَفِّ عَنْهُ وَاسْتُرُوا عَمَّنْ أَمَرَ الله بِالسَّتْرِ وَالْكِتْمَانِ عَنْهُ قَالَ ثُمَّ رَفَعَ يَدَهُ وَبَكَى وَقَالَ اللهمَّ إِنَّ هَؤُلاءِ لَشِرْذِمَةٌ قَلِيلُونَ فَاجْعَلْ مَحْيَانَا مَحْيَاهُمْ وَمَمَاتَنَا مَمَاتَهُمْ وَلا تُسَلِّطْ عَلَيْهِمْ عَدُوّاً لَكَ فَتُفْجِعَنَا بِهِمْ فَإِنَّكَ إِنْ أَفْجَعْتَنَا بِهِمْ لَمْ تُعْبَدْ أَبَداً فِي أَرْضِكَ وَصَلَّى الله عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ وَآلِهِ وَسَلَّمَ تَسْلِيماً.
5. Ahmad ibn Muhammad has narrated from Muhammad ibn al-Husayn from Mansur ibn al-‘Abbass from Safwan ibn Yahya from ‘Abdallah ibn Muskan from Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Khaliq and abu Basir who has said the following. “Abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) said, ‘O abu Muhammad, with us there is a secret of the secrets of Allah and a knowledge of the knowledge of Allah. No angel, near to Allah or a prophet who is a messenger also and no believer whose heart Allah has tested for faith is capable to bear. By Allah, Allah has not required anyone to bear it except us nor has He required anyone to worship him in that way except us. With us there is a secret of the secrets of Allah and a knowledge of the knowledge of Allah. Allah has commanded us to preach it We then preached what Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most gracious, had commanded us to preaCh However, we did not find a proper place for it or a people or bearers who accept it until Allah created certain tribes. These people were created from the clay out of which Muhammad and his descendants were created and from a light from which Allah had created Muhammad and his descendants. He made them with the excess of the making of His blessings out of which He had made Muhammad and his descendants. We then preached what Allah had commanded us to preach then these people accepted and acknowledged that. [It reached them from us and they accepted and acknowledged it]. Our mention reached them and their hearts inclined towards us, recognizing us and our hadith. Had they not been created from this they would not have been as suCh No, by Allah, they would not have acknowledged.” Then the Imam (a.s.) said, “Allah created certain tribes for Hell and fire. He then commanded us to preach to them as we had preached to them but to the later ones it seemed repugnant and their hearts felt hatred and they rejected it from us, did not acknowledge it and considered it as lies and they said, “They are magicians and liars.” Allah then placed a seal on their hearts and made them to forget. Allah then opened their tongue with some of the truth. Thus, they speak of it but their hearts are in denial. He uses it in defense of His friends and those who obey Him. Had it not been there no one would have worshipped Allah on earth. He commanded us to withheld it from them, hide and conceal. You must also hide it from those that Allah has commanded to withheld from and hide from those that Allah has commanded to hide and withheld from.” The narrator has said that the Imam (a.s.) then raised his hands and wept and said, “O Lord, this is a very small group. Make our lives as their lives and our death like their death. Do not make dominant over them any of Your enemies that would cause us suffer pains for their suffering. If You would allow it to cause pains to us because of their sufferings no one would worship You on earth. May Allah send blessing up on Muhammad and his Ahl al-Bayt and may (Your) peace and more peace be with them.”
Al-Kāfi - Volume 1, The Hadith (statements) of Ahl al-Bayt (members of the family of Prophet Muhammad) is Difficult and becomes Difficult, Hadith #5
Hadith #5 - The Hadith (statements) of Ahl al-Bayt (members of the family of Prophet Muhammad) is Difficult and becomes Difficult | Thaqalayn
The Hadith (statements) of Ahl al-Bayt (members of the family of Prophet Muhammad) is Difficult and becomes Difficult
1ـ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْحُسَيْنِ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ سِنَانٍ عَنْ عَمَّارِ بْنِ مَرْوَانَ عَنْ جَابِرٍ قَالَ قَالَ أَبُو جَعْفَرٍ (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) قَالَ رَسُولُ الله (صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِه) إِنَّ حَدِيثَ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ صَعْبٌ مُسْتَصْعَبٌ لا يُؤْمِنُ بِهِ إِلا مَلَكٌ مُقَرَّبٌ أَوْ نَبِيٌّ مُرْسَلٌ أَوْ عَبْدٌ امْتَحَنَ الله قَلْبَهُ لِلايمَانِ فَمَا وَرَدَ عَلَيْكُمْ مِنْ حَدِيثِ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ (صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِه) فَلانَتْ لَهُ قُلُوبُكُمْ وَعَرَفْتُمُوهُ فَاقْبَلُوهُ وَمَا اشْمَأَزَّتْ مِنْهُ قُلُوبُكُمْ وَأَنْكَرْتُمُوهُ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى الله وَإِلَى الرَّسُولِ وَإِلَى الْعَالِمِ مِنْ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ وَإِنَّمَا الْهَالِكُ أَنْ يُحَدِّثَ أَحَدُكُمْ بِشَيْءٍ مِنْهُ لا يَحْتَمِلُهُ فَيَقُولَ وَالله مَا كَانَ هَذَا وَالله مَا كَانَ هَذَا وَالانْكَارُ هُوَ الْكُفْرُ.
1. d ibn Sinan from ‘Ammar ibn Marwan from Jabir who has said the following. “Abu Ja‘far (a.s.) has said that the Messenger of Allah has said, ‘The Hadith (statements) of Ahl al-Bayt (members of the family of Prophet Muhammad) is difficult and it becomes difficult. No one believes in it except the angels that are close to Allah or the Prophets who are Messengers also, a servant of Allah whose He has tested for faith. Whatever would come to you of the Hadith (statements) of Ahl al-Bayt of Muhammad (members of the family of Prophet Muhammad), if your heart would feel relief and you recognized them accept them. Whatever that would cause antipathy in your hearts and you could not recognize leave them to Allah, to the Messenger of Allah and the scholar from Ahl al-Bayt of Muhammad. The ones to perish are those who do not accept Hadith of Ahl al-Bayt (members of the family of Prophet Muhammad).Whenever one is narrated to them they say, “By Allah, this was not and that was not.” Denial is disbelief.”
Al-Kāfi - Volume 1, The Hadith (statements) of Ahl al-Bayt (members of the family of Prophet Muhammad) is Difficult and becomes Difficult, Hadith #1
Hadith #1 - The Hadith (statements) of Ahl al-Bayt (members of the family of Prophet Muhammad) is Difficult and becomes Difficult | Thaqalayn
The Hadith (statements) of Ahl al-Bayt (members of the family of Prophet Muhammad) is Difficult and becomes Difficult
3ـ عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ الْبَرْقِيِّ عَنِ ابْنِ سِنَانٍ أَوْ غَيْرِهِ رَفَعَهُ إِلَى أَبِي عَبْدِ الله (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) قَالَ إِنَّ حَدِيثَنَا صَعْبٌ مُسْتَصْعَبٌ لا يَحْتَمِلُهُ إِلا صُدُورٌ مُنِيرَةٌ أَوْ قُلُوبٌ سَلِيمَةٌ أَوْ أَخْلاقٌ حَسَنَةٌ إِنَّ الله أَخَذَ مِنْ شِيعَتِنَا الْمِيثَاقَ كَمَا أَخَذَ عَلَى بَنِي آدَمَ أَ لَسْتُ بِرَبِّكُمْ فَمَنْ وَفَى لَنَا وَفَى الله لَهُ بِالْجَنَّةِ وَمَنْ أَبْغَضَنَا وَلَمْ يُؤَدِّ إِلَيْنَا حَقَّنَا فَفِي النَّارِ خَالِداً مُخَلَّداً.
3. Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from his father from al-Barqi from ibn Sinan or others in a marfu‘ manner from abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) who has said the following. “Our Hadith (statements) are difficult and they become difficult. Only well lighted chests, the well protected of virtuous moral abilities are capable to accept them.” Allah has taken a pledge from our Shi‘a (followers) just as He has taken such pledge from the children of Adam (Am I not Your Lord?” Whoever would remain loyal to us Allah will grant then paradise. Whoever would dislike us and would not deliver our rights to us they will live in fire forever.”
Al-Kāfi - Volume 1, The Hadith (statements) of Ahl al-Bayt (members of the family of Prophet Muhammad) is Difficult and becomes Difficult, Hadith #3
Hadith #3 - The Hadith (statements) of Ahl al-Bayt (members of the family of Prophet Muhammad) is Difficult and becomes Difficult | Thaqalayn
The Hadith (statements) of Ahl al-Bayt (members of the family of Prophet Muhammad) is Difficult and becomes Difficult
The difficulty is explained in Surah Hajj:
And (as for) those who strive to oppose Our communications, they shall be the inmates of the flaming fire. 51And We did not send before you any apostle or prophet, but when he desired, the Shaitan made a suggestion respecting his desire; but Allah annuls that which the Shaitan casts, then does Allah establish His communications, and Allah is Knowing, Wise, 52So that He may make what the Shaitan casts a trial for those in whose hearts is disease and those whose hearts are hard; and most surely the unjust are in a great opposition, 53And that those who have been given the knowledge may know that it is the truth from your Lord, so they may believe in it and their hearts may be lowly before it; and most surely Allah is the Guide of those who believe into a right path. 54And those who disbelieve shall not cease to be in doubt concerning it until the hour overtakes them suddenly, or there comes on them the chastisement of a destructive day.
Colt
Well-Known Member
It complicated, the human person of Jesus of Nazareth died on the cross. He was a Son of God in the flesh, a miraculous individua. I believe that his body was dematerialized by his unseen celestial associates. The spiritual, celestial being was still alive, he waited 3 days and began returning in a different form.
So the human was killed but not the Son of God.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
"He it is Who has sent down the Book upon thee; therein are signs determined; they are the Mother of the Book, and others symbolic. As for those whose hearts are given to swerving, they follow that of it which is symbolic, seeking temptation and seeking its interpretation. And none know its interpretation save God and those firmly rooted in knowledge. They say, “We believe in it; all is from our Lord.” And none remember, save those who possess intellect" 3:7
"And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allah. They follow not except assumption, and they are not but falsifying" 6:116
He is is who revealed the book to you from it are firm/clear signs, they are the mother of the book, and the other is ambiguities, as for those who hearts have perversity, they follow the ambiguity from it, seeking it's trial and seeking it's interpretation and no one knows its interpretation save God and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge, saying we believe in it, all is from our Lord and none remember save those who possess understanding. 3:7
Imam Ali Hadi (a) said regarding "they follow the best of it", it refers to the clear/firm signs.
As I said many times, ambiguities from it is from Satan as it's a clear book full of insights.
وَمَا عَلَّمْنَاهُ الشِّعْرَ وَمَا يَنْبَغِي لَهُ ۚ إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا ذِكْرٌ وَقُرْآنٌ مُبِينٌ | We did not teach him poetry, nor does it behoove him. This is just a reminder and a manifest/clear Quran/Recitation, | Yaseen : 69
وَإِذَا لَمْ تَأْتِهِمْ بِآيَةٍ قَالُوا لَوْلَا اجْتَبَيْتَهَا ۚ قُلْ إِنَّمَا أَتَّبِعُ مَا يُوحَىٰ إِلَيَّ مِنْ رَبِّي ۚ هَٰذَا بَصَائِرُ مِنْ رَبِّكُمْ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةٌ لِقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ | When you do not bring them a sign, they say, ‘Why do you not improvise one?’ Say, ‘I only follow what is revealed to me from my Lord; these are insights from your Lord, and a guidance and mercy for a people who have faith.’ | Al-A'raaf : 203
وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِنْ قَبْلِكَ مِنْ رَسُولٍ وَلَا نَبِيٍّ إِلَّا إِذَا تَمَنَّىٰ أَلْقَى الشَّيْطَانُ فِي أُمْنِيَّتِهِ فَيَنْسَخُ اللَّهُ مَا يُلْقِي الشَّيْطَانُ ثُمَّ يُحْكِمُ اللَّهُ آيَاتِهِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ | We did not send any apostle or prophet before you but that when he wished Satan cast [something] in regards to his wish Thereat Allah nullifies whatever Satan has cast then Allah makes clear/firm His signs, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise. | Al-Hajj : 52
فَبِمَا نَقْضِهِمْ مِيثَاقَهُمْ لَعَنَّاهُمْ وَجَعَلْنَا قُلُوبَهُمْ قَاسِيَةً ۖ يُحَرِّفُونَ الْكَلِمَ عَنْ مَوَاضِعِهِ ۙ وَنَسُوا حَظًّا مِمَّا ذُكِّرُوا بِهِ ۚ وَلَا تَزَالُ تَطَّلِعُ عَلَىٰ خَائِنَةٍ مِنْهُمْ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا مِنْهُمْ ۖ فَاعْفُ عَنْهُمْ وَاصْفَحْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُحْسِنِينَ | Then, because of their breaking their covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard: they pervert words from their proper place and have forgotten a part of what they were reminded. You will not cease to learn of some of their treachery, excepting a few of them. Yet excuse them and forbear. Indeed Allah loves the virtuous | Al-Maaida : 13
وَحَسِبُوا أَلَّا تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ فَعَمُوا وَصَمُّوا ثُمَّ تَابَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِمْ ثُمَّ عَمُوا وَصَمُّوا كَثِيرٌ مِنْهُمْ ۚ وَاللَّهُ بَصِيرٌ بِمَا يَعْمَلُونَ | They supposed there would be no trial so they became blind and deaf. Thereafter Allah turned mercifully to many of them yet [again] many of them became blind and deaf, and Allah watches what they do. | Al-Maaida : 71
فَإِذَا قَرَأْتَ الْقُرْآنَ فَاسْتَعِذْ بِاللَّهِ مِنَ الشَّيْطَانِ الرَّجِيمِ So when you recite the Quran, seek refuge in God from the outcast Satan. | An-Nahl : 98
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. . Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of the dawn, 1From the evil of what He has created, 2And from the evil of the utterly dark night when it comes, 3And from the evil of those who blow on knots, 4And from the evil of the envious when he envies 5
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. . Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of men, 1The King of men, 2The god of men, 3From the evil of the whisperings of the slinking (Shaitan), 4Who whispers into the hearts of men, 5From among the jinn and the men. 6
Imam Ali Hadi (a) said regarding "they follow the best of it", it refers to the clear/firm signs.
As I said many times, ambiguities from it is from Satan as it's a clear book full of insights.
وَمَا عَلَّمْنَاهُ الشِّعْرَ وَمَا يَنْبَغِي لَهُ ۚ إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا ذِكْرٌ وَقُرْآنٌ مُبِينٌ | We did not teach him poetry, nor does it behoove him. This is just a reminder and a manifest/clear Quran/Recitation, | Yaseen : 69
وَإِذَا لَمْ تَأْتِهِمْ بِآيَةٍ قَالُوا لَوْلَا اجْتَبَيْتَهَا ۚ قُلْ إِنَّمَا أَتَّبِعُ مَا يُوحَىٰ إِلَيَّ مِنْ رَبِّي ۚ هَٰذَا بَصَائِرُ مِنْ رَبِّكُمْ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةٌ لِقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ | When you do not bring them a sign, they say, ‘Why do you not improvise one?’ Say, ‘I only follow what is revealed to me from my Lord; these are insights from your Lord, and a guidance and mercy for a people who have faith.’ | Al-A'raaf : 203
وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِنْ قَبْلِكَ مِنْ رَسُولٍ وَلَا نَبِيٍّ إِلَّا إِذَا تَمَنَّىٰ أَلْقَى الشَّيْطَانُ فِي أُمْنِيَّتِهِ فَيَنْسَخُ اللَّهُ مَا يُلْقِي الشَّيْطَانُ ثُمَّ يُحْكِمُ اللَّهُ آيَاتِهِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ | We did not send any apostle or prophet before you but that when he wished Satan cast [something] in regards to his wish Thereat Allah nullifies whatever Satan has cast then Allah makes clear/firm His signs, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise. | Al-Hajj : 52
فَبِمَا نَقْضِهِمْ مِيثَاقَهُمْ لَعَنَّاهُمْ وَجَعَلْنَا قُلُوبَهُمْ قَاسِيَةً ۖ يُحَرِّفُونَ الْكَلِمَ عَنْ مَوَاضِعِهِ ۙ وَنَسُوا حَظًّا مِمَّا ذُكِّرُوا بِهِ ۚ وَلَا تَزَالُ تَطَّلِعُ عَلَىٰ خَائِنَةٍ مِنْهُمْ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا مِنْهُمْ ۖ فَاعْفُ عَنْهُمْ وَاصْفَحْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُحْسِنِينَ | Then, because of their breaking their covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard: they pervert words from their proper place and have forgotten a part of what they were reminded. You will not cease to learn of some of their treachery, excepting a few of them. Yet excuse them and forbear. Indeed Allah loves the virtuous | Al-Maaida : 13
وَحَسِبُوا أَلَّا تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ فَعَمُوا وَصَمُّوا ثُمَّ تَابَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِمْ ثُمَّ عَمُوا وَصَمُّوا كَثِيرٌ مِنْهُمْ ۚ وَاللَّهُ بَصِيرٌ بِمَا يَعْمَلُونَ | They supposed there would be no trial so they became blind and deaf. Thereafter Allah turned mercifully to many of them yet [again] many of them became blind and deaf, and Allah watches what they do. | Al-Maaida : 71
فَإِذَا قَرَأْتَ الْقُرْآنَ فَاسْتَعِذْ بِاللَّهِ مِنَ الشَّيْطَانِ الرَّجِيمِ So when you recite the Quran, seek refuge in God from the outcast Satan. | An-Nahl : 98
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. . Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of the dawn, 1From the evil of what He has created, 2And from the evil of the utterly dark night when it comes, 3And from the evil of those who blow on knots, 4And from the evil of the envious when he envies 5
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. . Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of men, 1The King of men, 2The god of men, 3From the evil of the whisperings of the slinking (Shaitan), 4Who whispers into the hearts of men, 5From among the jinn and the men. 6
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The Baha'i Faith began with the Declaration of the Bab, May 23, 1844, when the Bab announced that he was a messenger of God and foretold the coming of another messenger of God in the near future.
In 1863, Baha'u'llah declared to his fellow Bābīs that he was the messenger of God foretold by the Bāb. An overwhelming majority of Bābīs acknowledged his claim and thenceforth became known as Bahāʾīs.
The world might not want unity but that is what Baha'u'llah taught is necessary for humanity to survive and thrive.
“My object is none other than the betterment of the world and the tranquillity of its peoples. The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded.”
I do not necessarily believe in the Adam an God according to the Bible. Since I am a Baha'i I believe what the Baha'i Writings say about Adam and Baha'u'llah. There are some similarities but also differences.
I agree that sin means to miss the mark. When we break God's laws we miss the mark. Baha'u'llah wrote His own Book of Laws which Baha'is believe are the new Laws for this age although they only binding on Baha'is.
It does not matter to me if the Baha'i beliefs line up with the Bible since I do not consider the Bible inerrant. There are many errors and contradictions in the Bible. I consider the Writings of Baha'u'llah inerrant so that is what I go by. As such I believe what is in the Bible if it aligns with Baha'i beliefs but otherwise I call it into question.
Where did you ever get such an idea? We were created to know and worship God, not to enjoy ourselves.
Jesus told us to deny self and Baha'u'llah said something similar.
Matthew 16:24-26 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
“Say: Deliver your souls, O people, from the bondage of self, and purify them from all attachment to anything besides Me. Remembrance of Me cleanseth all things from defilement, could ye but perceive it.”
I do not believe Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden represents real history so I do not believe that there was a tree with fruit which when eaten separated us from God. I believe the story was an allegory
God's purpose for us was not to enjoy ourselves in worldly things. It was to know God, love others and love and God.
I don't know why you are calling it guru jargon. What do you think the Bible sounds like to someone who never read it before? It is the most confusing and contradictory book of all time. The meanings of verses are not even agreed upon by Christians.
He meant our life in this material world, specifically the things we find pleasurable that lead to sin and separate us from God.
John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
I believe that Eden is allegorical representing paradise but it was not a real place that existed.
I don't know what you mean by everything else.
I did not say I believe that spirit beings were created. I believe that humans become spirit beings and some of them are angels.
“And now, concerning His words: “And He shall send His angels….” By “angels” is meant those who, reinforced by the power of the spirit, have consumed, with the fire of the love of God, all human traits and limitations, and have clothed themselves with the attributes of the most exalted Beings and of the Cherubim.”
Because God sent Adam from the spiritual world of freedom to the earth, which is world of bondage.
Sorry, I am not familiar with the details in the Bible, but I do not believe there was ever a woman called Eve, as that is part of the allegorical story.
Where does the Bible actually say that only a very few go to heaven to judge with Christ? Nowhere.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
He is saying that no person has ever gone to heaven and returned. The only person present on earth who was once in heaven is Christ Himself.
I believe that all the prophets were once in heaven, not only Jesus.
The Prophets, unlike us, are pre-existent. The soul of Christ existed in the spiritual world before His birth in this world. We cannot imagine what that world is like, so words are inadequate to picture His state of being. (Shoghi Effendi: High Endeavors, Page: 71)
That verse does not mean that no one has gone to heaven after they died. Where do you think Christians who were promised eternal life go?
No, I do not believe in the bodily resurrection of Jesus and I also don't believe there was ever any fruit in a garden.
You believe that Jesus plans to resurrect dead bodies from their graves? Then what do you believe will happen?
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CG Didymus
Veteran Member
But that was the whole point... It proves how great the Christian God is. .Jesus was supposedly stone, cold dead and came back to life. If it ain't true. If it didn't really happen, then Christianity is the biggest con job ever pulled on the people of the world.
Like the OP says, what if Christian beliefs aren't true? But where do we start? In Genesis? Right away, it sure sounds like made-up mythical BS.
Start with the Gospels? A star that guides the Magi to a virgin born baby? And that baby grows up to walk on water? And he brings two people back to life, and while he's being crucified, people come out of their graves in Jerusalem? And then, of course, he himself comes back to life then ascends into the clouds to the right hand of God?
I tried to believe it. Only because I was told it was all true. And it felt good to believe. But I just couldn't keep myself from thinking... This stuff can't all be true.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I don't know that it is a con job.
Christians want to believe it so they believe it. They are getting something from believing it so I cannot feel sorry for them...