psychoslice
Veteran Member
Yes hopefully that will happen one day, but it will take a long time before we all mature spiritually, organized relgion will need to fall away to allow the spirit that has been imprisioned to grow and mature.
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What if we accepted each other's religion?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
Tumah
Veteran Member
Another way of saying this OP is:
As a Baha'i, I find that everyone else should become Baha'i too and accept Baha'i beliefs about other religions, because Baha'i's stance regarding other religions is true.
My response obviously as a Jew, is that Baha'i is wrong and Prophets, Messengers and Messiahs that were not sent by G-d, which includes all the non-Jewish prophets, are false. For Jews, this goes so far as to have the potential to cause them to go to Hell. This includes your Baha'i belief regarding other religions.
There is a difference between accepting a person as a person, and accepting his religion. You also seem to conflate the two here.
To me it makes no difference if people become Baha'is or not. What is the problem is humanity can't work together as a family because of prejudices racial, religious and national. It doesn't matter who is wrong and right as much as we come together and work for a better world. We can't build a better world divided. We've tried and it doesn't work, only unity will work. Why are we afraid to unite?
Marsh
Active Member
You will never be accepted by Islam. Mohammad called for a modicum of tolerance only for the people of the Book, ie. Christians (perhaps Jews, but that hardly seems likely given the state of affairs today). All others are to be converted or killed. That is the hard-line position of the Koran.
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Tumah
Veteran Member
This is not what you said. What you said was:
As a Baha'i I find accepting others religions to be not only workable but creates unity and friendship and peace between us. We accept the Prophet, Messenger or Messiah and His Holy Book and all humanity as a family and it works.
We accept everything except the man made dogmas and interpretations - only the religion in its purest form. Those who want peace will find in this message a great hope for humanity.
We accept everything except the man made dogmas and interpretations - only the religion in its purest form. Those who want peace will find in this message a great hope for humanity.
It kinds of looks like you are saying all religions should accept the validity of other religions and their Prophets, Messengers, etc.
This is problematic from my standpoint.
In some cases, it does matter who is wrong or who is right. I wouldn't want to raise my kids believing that it doesn't matter whether they remain Jewish or become Baha'i because in my perspective, that would garner them a ticket to Hell. So although I can be personable towards you, there needs to remain some distance and some demarcation between us.
Recently Indonesia, the largest Muslim country in the world, recognised the Baha'i Faith as an equal world Faith. You can read about it in these links or google it also.
https://themuslimtimes.info/2014/08/08/welcoming-bahai-new-official-religion-in-indonesia/
http://jakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/...nity-grateful-long-awaited-state-recognition/
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
One down...
Next!!!
How about this? http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36320816
If too many more people in Iran stand up for the Baha'is like this, there will be more of Iran in jail than on the streets!! Muslims are loving the Baha's even Rafsanjani's daughter!!!!
If too many more people in Iran stand up for the Baha'is like this, there will be more of Iran in jail than on the streets!! Muslims are loving the Baha's even Rafsanjani's daughter!!!!
The Baha'i faith is just one more division. You're an example of what you condemn.
Who's condemning? We're talking about universal brotherhood and the unity of mankind. That we become like one human family and work together in unity for the betterment of the world. I don't see anything wrong with universal human rights, universal education and for people to stop war and prejudices. Maybe you don't like these things. Each to his own.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I have a question for you. From a societal view, what would be the foundation that still promotes diversity? It cannot come from god because not everyone knows him, likewise buddha and prophets of Bahai faith and so forth.
If we looked beyond our personal morals to build a peaceful humanity, whers would you start in regards to religion?
Tumah
Veteran Member
I don't understand your first question.
I don't see why religion needs to be a part of it. A peaceful humanity means we can say good day as we go about our business. We don't need to be unified in order to be peaceful.
What we need urgently in order to have a peaceful humanity is to accept the oneness of all humanity. That we are all equal human beings. No racial barriers, no national barriers, no religious prejudices.
What that means is when Syrians are being slaughtered like cattle we don't stand by for years allowing the massacres to continue on grounds it's 'not our country or nationality or race or religion that's being massacred". We need to face reality that humans are massacring humans and as humans we need to stop it.
We need to face reality that our fellow humans suffer poverty or disease or war and see them as our family.
So the combined wealth and forces of the world couldn't stop the Syrian war? China, Russia, USA could not stop the innocent massacre of people? You know why? Because they are not Americans or Chinese or Russians they are Syrians so they don't matter.
We teach everywhere in every forum that we humans are one human race and that is the reality and all these terrible wars and atrocities are allowed to continue only because we divide ourselves instead of accepting we are one human race and should never let another human be slaughtered or suffer poverty or disease while we live in comfort and luxury. This is the world of materialism And these wars are its fruits. There is a better way.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Religion (living and practicing according to ones morals) is not a "option". If that be the case, how would our religions/lifestyles even consider world peace if it separates itself from that goal. Assuming people want world peace however defined.
Then, not every lifestyle people take up or live has a goal of peace whether diverse or not.
My question is, since we are a diverse nation what "foundation" (not unifying) can we all agree or have that would suppport our interaction with other people "and" keeping our beliefs and morals regardless if one believes in god and another doesnt?
Im asking about a foundation among diversity not unifying diversity to a one party system.
Tumah
Veteran Member
The most obvious seems to be that we are all people.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
You'd have to expand. Yes, we are all people; however, there is a lot of diversity that if "people/humanity" is a foundation what are the characteristics of this foundation to which would build world peace among diversity?
Think of a puzzle. I am saying, there are diverse pieces that make up a whole picture. I am not saying make all pieces one color then there'd be no picture. If there were one color, there would still be pieces that hooked to each other (people/humanity) but that doesn't describe or define what the picture actually is if there is an actual picture to begin with.
Some people say there isn't. A lot of religions say there is. There are many that decide that to have world peace, all pieces must be shaped the same. While other people say, to build world piece, there should be a diversity of shapes.
I find more productivity and goal in the latter. However, what is the "picture" for humanity/people? What picture are we putting together with our diverse pieces?
The answer, as you say, "we are all people", only says "all of us are puzzle pieces." It does not focus on the picture is (meaning, world piece), and it doesn't define how we shape it (my original question), say start with the edges and work from there.
In my view world peace is through the spirits and ancestors. Without them, where would we be. That is my picture.
Your picture is god or the creator with whatever beliefs, morals, and practices you follow.
I am asking about our foundation. What makes us a puzzle? What creates a picture of we only say "because we are a puzzle" instead of addressing the actual putting it together?
That, and to a lot of us, we are not looking for world peace. So, in analogy, the're morals do not include needing to put a puzzle together among diverse pieces. However, because there is no foundation (that anyone knows or wants to answer here), we would be like we are now. So, is that world peace to the person who doesn't want to have it?
Cliff notes, though I prefer you read my post.My theme: If we were to have world peace, we need a foundation or structure. We cannot have disorder and consider it peace. That's a contradiction in terms.
So I ask...
My question: Can we find a foundation among diversity to build world peace?
Your answer" That's obvious, we are all people
My comment: That doesn't make sense. Why?
Analogy: World peace/goal is the puzzle. The diversity of people are the different shapes of the puzzle. If disordered there is no world peace. However, to put the puzzle peaces together, it would be nice to have a picture. The picture is the foundation. If no picture, why put the pieces together? Unless it doesn't matter if there is a picture but then if there isn't any, building world peace would be harder to get because we have no goal/foundation/picture to guide us.
My end point: I am not saying taking away diversity to make humanity a one party system (making all the pieces the same). We can't put the picture together then even if we had a picture.
Repeated question: Instead, I am asking, is their picture/foundation to which we can build world peace while maintaining diversity? (No religion, moral, or government system overriding other people)
It can't be "because we are all people." Of course are all people (puzzle pieces) and of course we go together (are one puzzle), that's not what I'm addressing.
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Tumah
Veteran Member
I don't understand why the fact that we are all human is not enough to engender camaraderie and by extension peace between people.You'd have to expand. Yes, we are all people; however, there is a lot of diversity that if "people/humanity" is a foundation what are the characteristics of this foundation to which would build world peace among diversity?
Think of a puzzle. I am saying, there are diverse pieces that make up a whole picture. I am not saying make all pieces one color then there'd be no picture. If there were one color, there would still be pieces that hooked to each other (people/humanity) but that doesn't describe or define what the picture actually is if there is an actual picture to begin with.
Some people say there isn't. A lot of religions say there is. There are many that decide that to have world peace, all pieces must be shaped the same. While other people say, to build world piece, there should be a diversity of shapes.
I find more productivity and goal in the latter. However, what is the "picture" for humanity/people? What picture are we putting together with our diverse pieces?
The answer, as you say, "we are all people", only says "all of us are puzzle pieces." It does not focus on the picture is (meaning, world piece), and it doesn't define how we shape it (my original question), say start with the edges and work from there.
In my view world peace is through the spirits and ancestors. Without them, where would we be. That is my picture.
Your picture is god or the creator with whatever beliefs, morals, and practices you follow.
I am asking about our foundation. What makes us a puzzle? What creates a picture of we only say "because we are a puzzle" instead of addressing the actual putting it together?
That, and to a lot of us, we are not looking for world peace. So, in analogy, the're morals do not include needing to put a puzzle together among diverse pieces. However, because there is no foundation (that anyone knows or wants to answer here), we would be like we are now. So, is that world peace to the person who doesn't want to have it?
My theme: If we were to have world peace, we need a foundation or structure. We cannot have disorder and consider it peace. That's a contradiction in terms.
So I ask...
My question: Can we find a foundation among diversity to build world peace?
Your answer" That's obvious, we are all people
My comment: That doesn't make sense. Why?
Analogy: World peace/goal is the puzzle. The diversity of people are the different shapes of the puzzle. If disordered there is no world peace. However, to put the puzzle peaces together, it would be nice to have a picture. The picture is the foundation. If no picture, why put the pieces together? Unless it doesn't matter if there is a picture but then if there isn't any, building world peace would be harder to get because we have no goal/foundation/picture to guide us.
My end point: I am not saying taking away diversity to make humanity a one party system (making all the pieces the same). We can't put the picture together then even if we had a picture.
Repeated question: Instead, I am asking, is their picture/foundation to which we can build world peace while maintaining diversity? (No religion, moral, or government system overriding other people)
It can't be "because we are all people." Of course are all people (puzzle pieces) and of course we go together (are one humanity), that's not what I'm addressing.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
We are already all human. Is there world peace now?