What if we accepted each other's religion?

[tonyamendola]

We all have some personal experiences and that is really something for ourselves as others cannot see it. I had a brilliant experience too. The thing is the Baha'i Faith is here also to help us to unlearn. So you will find Baha'is who are from this world repeating a lot of the world's mistakes. It will take centuries to get out of this mode of exclusiveness and it is a sickness of the soul. If you read the Baha'i Teachings Baha'u'llah came to create a 'new race of men' incomparable in character and a new world civilisation. These are a work in progress. So of course you will not yet see anything anywhere near the 'finished product' except perhaps in Abdul-Baha. He was not like you say and He is the One we are told to exemplify our behaviour on.

What is of concern to me personally is not whether people become Baha'i or not but that we have a defective, corrupt world that needs replacing with something better and good people everywhere need to come together to do something rather than just talk. Nobody seems to have a workable plan at rebuilding the world other than the Baha'is and I want a better world than this. I can't accept the wars and hatreds and prejudices. If there were any other workable plan of uniting humanity I would be first to embrace it but there isn't. Basically people just want a good time and a good life but there's so many suffering and being ignored. I want a just world where everyone has a chance of a good education, access to medicines and work and clean water and free from oppression. So I'm building that world brick by brick and there's just no other choice as all else is just about profit.
Good people need to unite and build a better world and this time have women build it because men have ruined it over conquest after conquest in an inhumane race for power and wealth. And the Baha'is are doing this so I joined them.

That`s wonderful and I am grateful you have found and follow your purpose here.
Gods direct message to me was to see only innocence in all regardless of appearances or happenings and so that is what I do in my life, thus only pointing to the Truth in all others that come to me encouraging them to identify with what is True Within..... Love.

You see I am eternally grateful that I grew up in poverty raiding the dump for clothes, eating stolen raw meat, holes in shoes, drunk parents beating each other half to death, looking after myself from around 5 onwards, learning to heal cuts and breaks myself, having to learn to overcome the fear of being beaten by boys twice my age at 7, learning how to avoid the abusive babysitter, my friends who showed me how to steal and offered me the chance to choose against that, the poor schooling that ensured i chose an unconventional life and didnt follow the "norm", the government who got me to buy a house that then halved in value while the payments doubled, the agency that tells me i must go to a sales training session and speak or i will not be supported when i cannot speak because my vocal chords are broken, to the terrorist that allowed me to see past his story to see his innocence, the man who ran me out of London with a gun thus altering my path for my highest good, the man who stole my house and left me bankrupt leaving me with my sick pregnant wife, so that i could see past my own dependancy on money, the people that caused my wife`s illness so that i saw my own needyness rather than real Love, my broken liver that allows me to see past death.
Every "bad" thing this world has brought to me has been a gift..... and thus was never bad.
Thus while I am all for the utopia you dream about, my life has shown me that its only by seeing past the bad to the "forever good" within all, that we will find our freedom via the direct experience .... and that is often only when we are pushed to our limits and have to change our minds by a world that is not fair or kind or just.

But that`s my life experience and it showed me that everyone can connect to the inner truth today through the means that they love .. in your case Bahai and working towards the world you have pictured, to another "The Goddess", in mine forgiveness, love and in the end seeing myself in another`s eyes, to a Gay Atheist who already walks as close to heaven as is possible, Shakespeare and the appalling abuse he suffered as a child that completely opened his heart to Love.

I do see the sense in the Bahai teachings and it would certainly make it far easier to see the "Truth" in all if the world was fairer, but there is nothing to stop up seeing that now and thus awakening Now.... if we choose........ Then we wont have to fix up the world

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

As a Baha'i I find accepting others religions to be not only workable but creates unity and friendship and peace between us. We accept the Prophet, Messenger or Messiah and His Holy Book and all humanity as a family and it works.

We accept everything except the man made dogmas and interpretations - only the religion in its purest form. Those who want peace will find in this message a great hope for humanity.

This is a call to peace and love and unity!

So @loverofhumanity - have you thought about taking your own advice and accepted others' religions?

Not just the parts that you already agree with, and not just the parts that you think came from God, but the whole religion as it's actally believed and practiced by its followers?

 

[loverofhumanity]

So @loverofhumanity - have you thought about taking your own advice and accepted others' religions?

Not just the parts that you already agree with, and not just the parts that you think came from God, but the whole religion as it's actally believed and practiced by its followers?

I accept what is true in all religions.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I accept what is true in all religions.

I think I was clear enough in my last post that you know you're being evasive. Try again.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I think I was clear enough in my last post that you know you're being evasive. Try again.

The Baha'i Faith accepts Buddha, Krishna, Muhammad, Zoroaster, Moses, Christ the Bab and Baha'u'llah as well as Abraham and the Holy Books.

We don't consider the manmade dogmas as being authentic but manmade and not from God or the Prophet so we don't accept as authentic things like hadiths or the sacraments.

As to the interpretation also we only accept authoritative interpretations of the Holy Books not the interpretations of Mullas or priests.

In short, everything is accepted that comes from God and the rest are not considered as part of the original teachings of the Manifestation but created by clergy, Mullas or priests.

The Baha'i Faith filters out what is true and only accepts that. This is on the authority of Baha'u'llah Himself Whom we believe to be the Promised One of all these Faiths.

We accept more than all religions. We accept the Promised One the followers of each religion have so far rejected so it is them who have failed to accept their own religion not us.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

We don't consider the manmade dogmas as being authentic but manmade and not from God or the Prophet so we don't accept as authentic things like hadiths or the sacraments.

And I'm asking you what if you did accept these things.

I get that you think they're false, just as other people think that aspects of the Baha'i faith are false.

 

[loverofhumanity]

And I'm asking you what if you did accept these things.

I get that you think they're false, just as other people think that aspects of the Baha'i faith are false.

We accept the people as equals. That's the important thing. We don't consider anyone, an aetheist or a person who doesn't accept us as heathen or an infidel but as an equal fellow human being.

We respect freedom of belief and worship. So for instance I love Buddha and His Teachings and go to Buddhist monasteries and love to meet the monks and learn from them. I don't offer food or bow to a monk or statue but I revere the Buddha in my heart as much as a Buddhist monk.

Same with Hindus. I love their temples. I feel the love of Krishna and revere Him equal to Baha'u'llah.

The only real difference is in the outward form but we agree with the inward reality of all religions which is truth.

Just because we don't do exactly the same outwardly doesn't mean inwardly we don't accept their religion fully which we do.

We call truth by different names but it's still truth. I love Muhammad and the Quran and mosques are beautiful places to pray as are all the temples and pagodas. The differences are only outward. We are all really one human race and one family.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

I think I was clear enough in my last post that you know you're being evasive. Try again.

If you ask a question a hundred different ways they will always evade answering and will repeat their beliefs without responding to the criticism. Usually, they will write a few paragraphs to make it seem legitimate but when you read their response it's the same thing that they had been repeating again and again and again ...

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

We accept the people as equals. That's the important thing. We don't consider anyone, an aetheist or a person who doesn't accept us as heathen or an infidel but as an equal fellow human being.

Except for when your leader refers to those that deny him using very nasty and strong words:

http://www.bahaibahai.com/eng/index.php/articles?id=86

We respect freedom of belief and worship.

Except for when your leader would compare them with cows and laugh so much when they were called cows to the extent that he would become tired:

"After delivering the message of God and explaining the divine teachings, the Master spoke humorously about the philosophers.
They say that had there been a spiritual world they would have sensed it. But, as a matter of fact, inability to sense a thing is not a proof of the nonexistence of that thing. If inability to sense constitutes proof of perfection, the cow must be the greatest philosopher, for she does not realize anything beyond the animal world.
This amusing statement that the cow is the greatest of all philosophers caused everyone to laugh. After the meeting, some men and women invited Him to go for a ride in their automobile. While driving, a herd of cows passed in front of the automobile and, becoming frightened, began to run about every which way. The ladies in the car cried out, `Oh Master, see the crowd of philosophers. How frightened they are running away from us.' `Abdu'l-Bahá laughed so heartily that He tired Himself." (Mahmud's diary, p. 193)​

Just because we don't do exactly the same outwardly doesn't mean inwardly we don't accept their religion fully which we do.

No you don't. According to Islamic law and the Quran Baha'ism is pure heresy. Please accept that fully...

 

[loverofhumanity]

Except for when your leader refers to those that deny him using very nasty and strong words:

http://www.bahaibahai.com/eng/index.php/articles?id=86




Except for when your leader would compare them with cows and laugh so much when they were called cows to the extent that he would become tired:

"After delivering the message of God and explaining the divine teachings, the Master spoke humorously about the philosophers.
They say that had there been a spiritual world they would have sensed it. But, as a matter of fact, inability to sense a thing is not a proof of the nonexistence of that thing. If inability to sense constitutes proof of perfection, the cow must be the greatest philosopher, for she does not realize anything beyond the animal world.
This amusing statement that the cow is the greatest of all philosophers caused everyone to laugh. After the meeting, some men and women invited Him to go for a ride in their automobile. While driving, a herd of cows passed in front of the automobile and, becoming frightened, began to run about every which way. The ladies in the car cried out, `Oh Master, see the crowd of philosophers. How frightened they are running away from us.' `Abdu'l-Bahá laughed so heartily that He tired Himself." (Mahmud's diary, p. 193)​

No you don't. According to Islamic law and the Quran Baha'ism is pure heresy. Please accept that fully...

We fully accept Muhammad as a Prophet of God and the Holy Quran as the Word of God. Yet they persecute us.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Except for when your leader refers to those that deny him using very nasty and strong words:

http://www.bahaibahai.com/eng/index.php/articles?id=86




Except for when your leader would compare them with cows and laugh so much when they were called cows to the extent that he would become tired:

"After delivering the message of God and explaining the divine teachings, the Master spoke humorously about the philosophers.
They say that had there been a spiritual world they would have sensed it. But, as a matter of fact, inability to sense a thing is not a proof of the nonexistence of that thing. If inability to sense constitutes proof of perfection, the cow must be the greatest philosopher, for she does not realize anything beyond the animal world.
This amusing statement that the cow is the greatest of all philosophers caused everyone to laugh. After the meeting, some men and women invited Him to go for a ride in their automobile. While driving, a herd of cows passed in front of the automobile and, becoming frightened, began to run about every which way. The ladies in the car cried out, `Oh Master, see the crowd of philosophers. How frightened they are running away from us.' `Abdu'l-Bahá laughed so heartily that He tired Himself." (Mahmud's diary, p. 193)​

No you don't. According to Islamic law and the Quran Baha'ism is pure heresy. Please accept that fully...

Who says Baha'is are heretics?

Indonesia, the largest Muslim country in the world doesn't agree with you.

https://themuslimtimes.info/2014/08/08/welcoming-bahai-new-official-religion-in-indonesia/

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

We fully accept Muhammad as a Prophet of God and the Holy Quran as the Word of God. Yet they persecute us.

No you don't. Your beliefs fundamentally contradict Islam.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

Who says Baha'is are heretics?

Indonesia, the largest Muslim country in the world doesn't agree with you.

https://themuslimtimes.info/2014/08/08/welcoming-bahai-new-official-religion-in-indonesia/

Just because they accept Baha'ism as religion it doesn't mean Baha'ism isn't heresy. Indonesia also allows Hinduism, Buddhism and Confucianism to be practiced even though according to Islam those beliefs are heresy as well.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

We accept the people as equals. That's the important thing. We don't consider anyone, an aetheist or a person who doesn't accept us as heathen or an infidel but as an equal fellow human being.

We respect freedom of belief and worship. So for instance I love Buddha and His Teachings and go to Buddhist monasteries and love to meet the monks and learn from them. I don't offer food or bow to a monk or statue but I revere the Buddha in my heart as much as a Buddhist monk.

Same with Hindus. I love their temples. I feel the love of Krishna and revere Him equal to Baha'u'llah.

The only real difference is in the outward form but we agree with the inward reality of all religions which is truth.

Just because we don't do exactly the same outwardly doesn't mean inwardly we don't accept their religion fully which we do.

We call truth by different names but it's still truth. I love Muhammad and the Quran and mosques are beautiful places to pray as are all the temples and pagodas. The differences are only outward. We are all really one human race and one family.

IOW, you're unwilling to do what you're asking others to do: to set aside what you're convinced is true and false to accept something different.

 

[loverofhumanity]

No you don't. Your beliefs fundamentally contradict Islam.

They don't contradict the Quran. Shiah and Sunni contradict each other. The thing is which version are you using as a benchmark to make such claims. What to you is true Islam? We accept Muhammad and the Quran. There is nothing else.

 

[loverofhumanity]

IOW, you're unwilling to do what you're asking others to do: to set aside what you're convinced is true and false to accept something different.

As I said we accept their Founders and their Holy Scriptures. That is what they accept. We do not accept their understanding or interpretation but we still accept their religion.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Just because they accept Baha'ism as religion it doesn't mean Baha'ism isn't heresy. Indonesia also allows Hinduism, Buddhism and Confucianism to be practiced even though according to Islam those beliefs are heresy as well.

Then the same goes for those who claim we are heretics. Just because they say that doesn't mean we are. You've just killed your own argument.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

As I said we accept their Founders and their Holy Scriptures. That is what they accept. We do not accept their understanding or interpretation but we still accept their religion.

You accept the parts you agree with. You don't accept the parts you disagree with.

... yet you want them to accept the parts of the Baha'i faith that they currently disagree with.

It seems to me like you aren't approaching this in good faith. You aren't willing to do what you ask of others.

Edit: it would be more honest if you just came out and said that you're proselytizing for the Baha'i faith instead of trying to maintain this charade.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You accept the parts you agree with. You don't accept the parts you disagree with.

... yet you want them to accept the parts of the Baha'i faith that they currently disagree with.

It seems to me like you aren't approaching this in good faith. You aren't willing to do what you ask of others.

Which parts are you talking about? We accept and revere the Founders of these Faiths and their Holy Books. Christ and the New Testament, Moses and the Torah, Muhammad and the Quran and the same with Buddha, Krishna and Zoroaster.

What more specifically are you asking us to accept? Hadiths? Sacraments that were never part of the original Revelation? Please be specific so I can try and answer. Each religion has a Founder and a Holy Book and that's what the followers turn to which is what we turn to also.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You accept the parts you agree with. You don't accept the parts you disagree with.

... yet you want them to accept the parts of the Baha'i faith that they currently disagree with.

It seems to me like you aren't approaching this in good faith. You aren't willing to do what you ask of others.

Edit: it would be more honest if you just came out and said that you're proselytizing for the Baha'i faith instead of trying to maintain this charade.

No matter what I say your sole aim seems to be to oppose. What's the point of having a discussion if all you want to do is oppose and condemn everything I try and explain sincerely. I'm being honest but you call me dishonest.

We're about building a world where everybody treats each other with fairness. Where religions see each other as equals and where all people are one, universal brotherhood. In an age of religious strife we need these things and if people can see the truth in each other's religions we can have peace. There is no superior race, religion or nation.

There's nothing wrong with teaching world unity to people especially when we don't have it and need it.