What if we accepted each others Religion?

[IndigoChild5559]

Firstly I am only referring to the major religions.

Next I’m speaking of accepting the Founder and the spiritual teachings such as virtues and prayer etc not the laws. The administration of each faith would remain.

So Christians would accept Buddha and Muhammad, Buddhists would accept Christ and Baha’is etc

And instead of segregating ourselves in our own churches, pagodas, temples and synagogues, we would visit each others places of worship to meditate and pray together. We Baha’is already do this and read from all the sacred scriptures of each religion in all our services.

In this way we can celebrate our diversity. I think in many places this is happening and also interfaith breaking down barriers. I myself I accept all the major religions and their Founders and Holy Books and find this enriches me greatly. So I read something Christ or Buddha said and it’s a great experience. Christ says to love and Buddha says to fight hate with love and that the greatest of all conquerors is he who conquers his own self. So much wisdom from all these faiths. Why should we deprive ourselves.? If you have any favourite verses please feel most welcome to share them.

While it might be a lovely thought, you simply can't get around the contradictory truth claims. A Jew who believes God has no body and no form and is not a man is simply never going to agree with a Christian who says that Jesus is God. They simply cannot both be right.

 

[Trailblazer]

I wonder... will Baha'is be the first to dump their man-made beliefs and dogmas for the sake of love and unity between the other religions?

Our beliefs and dogmas are not man-made.

 

[CG Didymus]

Ah, then Humanism is what you should be advocating for.

Yes, take the good of each and get rid of the rest of it. How much is actually left from any of them?

 

[LuisDantas]

Atheists don't seem to be very tolerant of Christianity or the Baha'i Faith.

More like the other way around. There is only so much concession to be made.

 

[CG Didymus]

To deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants

Yeah, that should work. Maybe with a big flood. Oh yeah, God did that already. Then where did the new batch of "miscreants" come from?

We need tolerance not acceptance.

And even with that, some religious movements can't be tolerated. And even with those that are tolerated, some of their behaviors, like proselytizing, are sometimes, in some places, not tolerated. Can Baha'is do that? Not push their agenda on the people in the other religions. I don't think so, because part of what they are told to do is go out and "teach" the Faith and make converts.

As regards your study of the Hindu religion: The origins of this and many other religions that abound in India are not quite known to us, and even the Orientalists and the students of religion are not in complete accord about the results of their investigations in that field. The Bahá'í writings also do not refer specifically to any of these forms of religion current in India. So, the Guardian feels it impossible to give you any definite and detailed information on that subject. He would urge you, however, to carry on your studies in that field, although its immensity is wellnigh bewildering, with the view of bringing the Message to the Hindus. The task of converting this section of the Indian population is a most vital obligation, although the Guardian is fully aware of the many difficulties that it presents. Nevertheless the friends should do their best to make as many converts among the Hindus as they possibly can. (From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi - 17 April 1936)​

 

[ppp]

Yes, take the good of each and get rid of the rest of it. How much is actually left from any of them?

A scant trace, at most.

 

[ppp]

We need tolerance not acceptance.
Tolerance is important in fostering peaceful coexistence and respecting the beliefs and practices of others. It allows individuals to live harmoniously, even if they do not fully agree with or accept each other's religions.
I cannot be expected to accept into my circle a Religions teachings that are likely to stunt my spiritual growth, I can however tolerate those other Religions and leave them be.

Tolerance is a peace treaty between peoples to live by rules to allow assorted groups to cohabitate. Those who are not signatories to the treaty of tolerance are not afforded it benefits. The non-signatories are only afforded the foundational respect of the moral baseline metrics of equity, reciprocity, and limited empathy. They themselves refuse cooperation.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Do you mean it is excluded by being less common?

It's excluded by the OP's referencing only the major religions.

 

[Vinayaka]

I believe LH truly wants for all of us to love, respect and get along with each other and accept the things in each religion that are common in all of them. Which he says is the virtues. Okay, so we don't focus on our different man-made and dogmatic beliefs, but all start loving and being kind to each other. Great... then what?

Unfortunately, we all know all religions that seek new converts first shower them with love and acceptance. Are Baha'is one of those types of religions? I think so. Because the real barrier between being able to love one another and accept one another is that we must accept God's messengers... all of them. And who is the latest and newest messenger that we must all accept? Hmmm? Could it be Baha'u'llah?

And once again here is a quote from Abdul Baha' on Buddhism with the added bonus of his thoughts on Confucianism....

Buddha also established a new religion, and Confucius renewed morals and ancient virtues, but their institutions have been entirely destroyed. The beliefs and rites of the Buddhists and Confucianists have not continued in accordance with their fundamental teachings. The founder of Buddhism was a wonderful soul. He established the Oneness of God, but later the original principles of His doctrines gradually disappeared, and ignorant customs and ceremonials arose and increased until they finally ended in the worship of statues and images" So it is with religions; through the passing of time they change from their original foundation, the truth of the Religion of God entirely departs, and the spirit of it does not stay; heresies appear, and it becomes a body without a soul. That is why it is renewed. The meaning is that the Buddhists and Confucianists now worship images and statues. They are entirely heedless of the Oneness of God and believe in imaginary gods like the ancient Greeks. But in the beginning it was not so; there were different principles and other ordinances. ('Abdu'l-Bahá, "Some Answered Questions", (Wilmette: Bahá'í Publishing Trust, 1984), pp. 165-166​

​

It's hard to take a Baha'is seriously, when they talk of accepting the other religions, when one of their leaders says things like that. I wonder... will Baha'is be the first to dump their man-made beliefs and dogmas for the sake of love and unity between the other religions?

Yeah, that's pretty insulting to be sure. But I'm pondering the need to stand up to it, although that's why I got into this foray in the first place. Surely any reader, non-Buddhist, or interested person, would see the folly in this on their own. Perhaps it would benefit a seeker though, to have these things more public, like you just put it, as these types of quotes aren't the ones Baha'is ever highlight in interacting with non-Bahai's.

I also find it interesting that non-Baha'i faiths are considered man-made, but the Baha'i faith is decreed by God. I remember once claiming that Baha'ullah was a self declared prophet, to be countered with the 'appointed by God' argument.

 

[F1fan]

Yeah, that's pretty insulting to be sure. But I'm pondering the need to stand up to it, although that's why I got into this foray in the first place. Surely any reader, non-Buddhist, or interested person, would see the folly in this on their own. Perhaps it would benefit a seeker though, to have these things more public, like you just put it, as these types of quotes aren't the ones Baha'is ever highlight in interacting with non-Bahai's.

I also find it interesting that non-Baha'i faiths are considered man-made, but the Baha'i faith is decreed by God. I remember once claiming that Baha'ullah was a self declared prophet, to be countered with e the 'appointed by God' argument.

It's also a bit arrogant of Baha'i to assert that God never interacts with anyone other than selected messengers, even though all Abrahamic religions claim God can, and does, interact directly with humans. How do the major religions compromise on that with some fringe religion? It's a major difference about how they describe God. It would be on Baha'i to adjust, not the major religions who have already ajusted elements of their beliefs over the centuries. Heck, even the Baha'i hierarchy won't eliminate their anti-gay bias, which is a serious marketing error. They take themselves way too seriously.

 

[Vinayaka]

They take themselves way too seriously.

And that is perhaps the crux of the matter. My son was describing one of his friends to me a few years back. "With _____insert name____ , it's always about ___ insert name ____. There was a lot of pragmatic wisdom in that simplicity, for human interaction. In any discussion with a Baha'i, it's usually about 90% what they think, and rarely about what you think. Even casual friendly chit chat like weather is dismissed.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Size has nothing to do with whether a religion is major or not.

Weird. What do you think is the determination?

The Baha'i Faith is now recognized as a major religion.

By who?

You will never see Voodoo on CBS morning news.

Is "being mentioned on the CBS Morning News" the measure of a major religion?


I can't see your video (not available in Canada), but you realize that you could have just googled "CBS Morning News voodoo" and checked this claim before you made it, don't you?

 

[sayak83]

True but if Buddha teaches to defeat hate with love and Christ teaches to love one another Who am I going to disagree with? Go through all the scriptures and you will find similar like in the Quran it says to return good for evil. Zoroaster says ‘good thoughts, good words, good deeds’. Baha’u’llah says we are all ‘the fruits of one tree and the leaves of one branch’. With regard to the spiritual virtues all the religions complement one other. Which of these truths am I supposed to deny? Only those who haven’t studied these religions in depth see the differences but those who have see the same thread throughout all of them.

Nobody really requires consensus among religions to just agree to be kind to each other, let go of hatred etc. The UN charter of human rights is enough for that.

I noticed that you watered down your call to "accept" religions to just generic virtues that everyone already agreed upon as soon as I put forward to question of common worship to include Christians and Muslims and Bahai taking part in worship of Siva and Kali idols.

 

[crossfire]

It's excluded by the OP's referencing only the major religions.

Minor religions don't have the metaphorical Tolkien's Rings of power.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

It's also a bit arrogant of Baha'i to assert that God never interacts with anyone other than selected messengers, even though all Abrahamic religions claim God can, and does, interact directly with humans. How do the major religions compromise on that with some fringe religion? It's a major difference about how they describe God. It would be on Baha'i to adjust, not the major religions who have already ajusted elements of their beliefs over the centuries. Heck, even the Baha'i hierarchy won't eliminate their anti-gay bias, which is a serious marketing error. They take themselves way too seriously.

I think what you described is an issue within Christianity too. A common belief in Christianity is that Jesus is the only way to God and to receiving salvation and forgiveness from God for allegedly sinning against him. However, the irony is that the majority of Christians disagree on whether or not salvation in Jesus is conditional or unconditional, such as whether it is given freely by God, requires baptism or speaking in tongues, or is earned through good deeds.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Atheists certainly to not tolerate the beliefs of Christians very well and many atheists are intolerant of Baha'i beliefs.

You must have a private definition of tolerate, one that includes approving of or supporting such beliefs. If so, you ask for more than what the faithful give atheists or gays or women wanting abortions. Tolerance is merely the opposite or absence of oppression. Here's what the religious are entitled to in my opinion and no more: they can believe what they like, read whatever holy book they like, gather in their private spaces like homes and places of worship, adorn their bodies, businesses and car bumpers with whatever icons or decorations they like, enjoy their rituals, and the like - all of the things that don't involve others uninterested in their religion.

Have you seen the Christian scriptures describing unbelievers? Altogether, they depict unbelievers as corrupt, vile, wicked, abominable, godless vessels of darkness in the service of evil, not one of which does any good, to be shunned, fit to be burned alive forever as enemies of a good god, and the moral equivalent of murderers and whoremongers. Don't believe me? Here's where:

[1] "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.' They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good" - Psalm 14:1

[2] "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." - Revelation 21:8

[3]"Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?"- 2 Corinthians 6:14

[4] Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ." - 1 John 2:22

[5] "Whoever is not with me is against me" - Luke 11:23

That's what intolerance looks like. And no, we humanists don't talk that way about any of the believers. Imagine reading this from an atheist: "The fool believes in gods. These fools are corrupt, their deeds are vile. Not one does good." Or how about, "But the fearful, and black people, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, all liars, shall deserve the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone."

None of these people are the friends of atheists, and the most that they should expect from atheists is being disregarded and left alone, and that only applies to the ones not trying to impose themselves in the lives of unbelievers, who should be declaimed emphatically and pushed back at as much as possible and using no euphemisms.

I like you. I find you to be basically a kind and well-meaning person. I am happy to be friendly to you, and I would help you any way I could. I respect you, but not your beliefs or your religion. I merely tolerate them (except the homophobia), which many humanists find intolerable. And I suspect that that is OK with you, and that you feel the same about me and my beliefs - happy to be friendly to me and to feel no need to fight me about my beliefs, but also, that you reject it all for yourself and find little value there. That's tolerance.

And look at how many of the theists posting in these threads have a palpable dislike for atheists. "What are you doing on our forum?" "Why do you argue about what you say you don't believe in?" "You're just trying to make yourselves gods and escape accountability for living licentious, hedonistic lives." They come by it honestly. It's in their book as I just demonstrated. But nobody should expect the secular community to approve of or respect any of that. Au contraire. They should expect such people to take antitheistic action until the organized, politicized religions are pushed out of government and back into the lives of volunteers only. They should not expect to be considered good neighbors, and if living in a country like the States with church-state separation, they should not be considered patriots.

As for making nice with these religions, it's ludicrous that any believer would expect to be treated more respectfully than they or their religions treat others. Here are a couple of comments I like:

"Information and time are on the side of nonbelievers. Every single day that the idea of a god persists, more will disbelieve in His existence. There is simply nothing we can do about it but accept the inevitable and hope they do not treat Christians the way Christians have treated them." - Youth pastor (name withheld)

"Many religions now come before us with ingratiating smirks and outspread hands, like an unctuous merchant in a bazaar. They offer consolation and solidarity and uplift, competing as they do in a marketplace. But we have a right to remember how barbarically they behaved when they were strong and were making an offer that people could not refuse.” - Hitchens

Our beliefs and dogmas are not man-made.

There is no evidence that one word ever uttered or written wasn't 100% anthropogenic.

Would this be an example of what you mean by atheists being intolerant of Christianity and Baha'ism? It would be for many. It's reason to call comments like mine attacking religion and its gods.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yeah, that's pretty insulting to be sure. But I'm pondering the need to stand up to it, although that's why I got into this foray in the first place. Surely any reader, non-Buddhist, or interested person, would see the folly in this on their own. Perhaps it would benefit a seeker though, to have these things more public, like you just put it, as these types of quotes aren't the ones Baha'is ever highlight in interacting with non-Bahai's.

I also find it interesting that non-Baha'i faiths are considered man-made, but the Baha'i faith is decreed by God. I remember once claiming that Baha'ullah was a self declared prophet, to be countered with the 'appointed by God' argument.

will Baha'is be the first to dump their man-made beliefs and dogmas for the sake of love and unity between the other religions?

Yes, all the other religions have man-made beliefs and dogmas that got added in to the "pure" teachings of the people who Baha'is believe to be "manifestations" of God. But Abdul Baha, Shoghi Effendi, and the members of the Baha'i Universal House of Justice are not "manifestations", so they are just regular humans. That makes the things they say, in a way, just their opinion. Baha'is, I think, are still supposed to treat their opinions and interpretation as if they are the infallible truth.

But then how do we know the "pure" and "true" teachings of any of these "manifestations"? LH says he loves the teachings of Buddha and the teachings of Krishna. But who wrote the Gita and all the other Hindu Scriptures? Who wrote the Buddhist Scriptures? Then we might as well add the Bible and the NT. They all have some "truths" to live by in them. And LH can easily find some. But what kind of beliefs and practices do those truths lead us to?

For me, that's an important part of the religions. Believe this and do that and you will be saved, or enlightened, or will free yourself from the cycle of dying and being reborn. For Baha'is, the person will be closer to their God in the next world, the spiritual world. It's these goals that is the reason for people to do good, to be loving and to obey the various rules or to perform some certain practices in order to attain that goal.

LH is acting as if believers in all the other religions can leave off those goals and beliefs and still just be loving and kind and accepting of all people in all religions. Except... again, are Baha'is intending to do that?

LH is also acting as if he can go into any religion's meeting place and participate in what they do there. Maybe some. Like does he do confession and the Holy Communion at a Catholic service? Would he participate in the Sun Dance ceremony of the North American Native People? But I understand what he's trying to say... It's time to put aside our religious differences and see the beauty and the good in all of them. But is that what the Baha'i Faith really believes and teaches?

No, it's dump the man-made stuff and the dogmas. Which eventually will get down to include most of the beliefs and practices of the religion. And after we've all gotten rid of our "wrong" beliefs and practices, what is left? Only the guiding light of the teachings of Baha'u'llah. Leading us to the golden age of peace, love and unity. Because they haven't dumped their beliefs, because, unlike the beliefs of the other religions, their beliefs are true.

Anyway, keep believing and practicing your spiritual beliefs. Oh, which reminds me, a very similar thing that some people believe is that we are all on different spiritual paths. And we are all following our own chosen path. That is so close to what LH is saying. But with those people they really believe that these paths are okay the way they are and are right for the people in those paths. I got it from New Age kind of people. But it sounds like something that maybe came from Hindu and Buddhist beliefs. Take care.

 

[CG Didymus]

It would be on Baha'i to adjust, not the major religions who have already ajusted elements of their beliefs over the centuries.

In their mind... All new religions, with their new messenger, all started small. But they grew and took over, because the previous religions of the previous messengers, got corrupted and were no longer teaching or practicing the truth. They have to go. They must be replaced with the new and true teachings from God that have been brought by the new messenger. They believe the Baha'i Faith is destined to be the religion of the whole world. We will all come to see the light and realize, that the teachings of Baha'u'llah are the only hope for the world. It is the only way to eliminate all wars and for us all to live in peace. None of the other religions can do this.

Trouble is... we all see areas of concern. We see things that aren't quite right. And it makes us question whether or not this new religion is true or not. And by the answers, attitudes and actions of some of the Baha'is, it doesn't help dispel our doubts. A couple of the Baha'is, to me, really seem like nice people, but I still don't believe them.

Oh, and I forgot, Baha'is have "feasts" every 19 days. That is the length of a Baha'i month. These are for Baha'is only. So, we can't go and participate with them. When I was around Baha'is, it was "firesides", informal chats about the basics about the Baha'i Faith and larger teaching events that were aimed at presenting the teachings of the Baha'i Faith to a non-Baha'is audience. It would be like a Baha'i going to a Billy Graham proselytizing event.

What LH is talking about is going to actual religious services of the other religions.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Size has nothing to do with whether a religion is major or not.
The Baha'i Faith is now recognized as a major religion. You will never see Voodoo on CBS morning news.

I have never seen Baha'i mentioned as a major world religion, but I gave it the benefit of the doubt, and googled to see what would come up. The position of Bahai seems to depend upon how large the group of "major world religions" is. If you are only picking a half dozen, it is not listed. If you increase the size of the group, then people begin to list it.

What are the top 5 major world religions?
Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism are always included in the list, being known as the "Big Five". Some scholars also include other religions, such as Manichaeism, Sikhism, the Baháʼí Faith, or Zoroastrianism, in the category.

World religions - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What are the 12 major religions of the world?
Major religions of the world - Religion - Issues Online
The world's faithful account for 83% of the global population; the great majority of these fall under twelve classical religions–Baha'i, Buddhism, Christianity, Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Shinto, Sikhism, Taoism, and Zoroastrianism.

Major religions of the world - Religion - Issues Online

The world’s faithful account for 83% of the global population; the great majority of these fall under twelve classical religions–Baha’i, Buddhism, Christianity, Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Shinto, Sikhism, Taoism, and Zoroastrianism. These twelve religions are the most...

www.issuesonline.co.uk

What are the 6 main religions in the world?
In order of size, the six major world religions are Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and Judaism.

World Religions: Definition & Timeline | StudySmarter

World Religions: ✓ Timeline ✓ Facts ✓ Symbols ✓ Characteristics ✓ Purpose ✓ Origins ✓ StudySmarter Original

www.studysmarter.co.uk

 

[Vinayaka]

Weird. What do you think is the determination?


By who?


Is "being mentioned on the CBS Morning News" the measure of a major religion?


I can't see your video (not available in Canada), but you realize that you could have just googled "CBS Morning News voodoo" and checked this claim before you made it, don't you?

When it comes to getting press, very often the group has to inform the press about it, and there can be pressure to do a story. This always reminds me of a personal incident that illustrates the point. Once upon a time I saw an article in the local paper of the town where I taught of how for the first time, a class from that town was representing their school and by extension the town, at the provincial music festival in choral speech. It struck me how they had gotten it wrong because I'd been to provincials 4 or 5 times before that in the same category. The difference? One teacher or principal called the local newspaper, and the other didn't.

The Baha'i, desperate for attention of any kind, would be sure to inform all press of any happenings. They got press here for some bicentennial celebration recently. But lots of groups do lots of things and the press knows nothing. Here, ISKCON gets press coverage of their rath yatra festival every year, whereas the temple I go to, and another one, never get coverage for any festival, despite them being much larger in numbers, affecting more people. Same reason ... one group calls the press and the others don't.