What if we accepted each others Religion?

[TransmutingSoul]

Did you know that the Bab and the Iranians/Persians also use a third calendar? Those years are 1222 SH (Solar Hijri) on the Iranian/Persian calendar

No I did not, thank you for that. Opens another can of worms in regards to prophecy!

We have the Badi Calander and we are in the year 180. The Baha'i new year, 181, starts on March 20th this year at the end of the fast which started on March the 1st for 19 days. It is a Solar based Calander.

We have 19 day months and 19 months a year with 3-4 intercallary days, all days and months names after attributes.

It is quite complicated and here is a link of you are interested.

Baháʼí calendar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Regards Tony

 

[Link]

That's not what the word sophistry normally means. Sophistry is fallacious and often deliberately deceptive (specious) argumentation. Somebody who knows that a given argument is fallacious is deceptively sophistic. Somebody who believes and repeats it without any intention to deceive is still making a sophistic (fallacious) argument but is not being deceptive. The arguments in defense of OT messianic prophecy foretelling Jesus are sophistry. Creationist arguments against evolution are sophistry. You can judge for yourself which of the people making these arguments is trying to deceive you and which have been deceived themselves.

You're describing ambiguity in your first sentence. And your second sentence is neither ambiguous nor sophistic. Its meaning is quite clear and not deceptive. Furthermore, it's not an argument and therefore cannot be said to contain a logical fallacy. I'd call it poetry or metaphor.

Okay, I should say it would make God speak deceptively in a way to try to purposely misguide mankind. I thought that was sophistry, if language is seen to imply something but it means something else.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Okay, I should say it would make God speak deceptively in a way to try to purposely misguide mankind. I thought that was sophistry, if language is seen to imply something but it means something else.

Yes, I agree with you on this one.
Because God creates both paths: a guiding path, and a misguiding path.
Some of the verses are meant to misguide. That is the view.

"God is not reluctant to present a proverb about a mosquito or something bigger. Believers know that it is truth from their Lord, but the unbelievers say, "What does God mean by this?" It is a proverb that misguides many and guides many. It misguides only the defiantly disobedient."
2:26

If Qaim comes, and says, the interpretation of this verses was so and so. Those who disobey, deserve to be misguided.

Quran is not written in a way to tell you, when it wants to misguide! Kindly note that!

 

[Link]

Yes, I agree with you on this one.
Because God creates both paths: a guiding path, and a misguiding path.
Some of the verses are meant to misguide. That is the view.

"God is not reluctant to present a proverb about a mosquito or something bigger. Believers know that it is truth from their Lord, but the unbelievers say, "What does God mean by this?" It is a proverb that misguides many and guides many. It misguides only the defiantly disobedient."
2:26

If Qaim comes, and says, the interpretation of this verses was so and so. Those who disobey, deserve to be misguided.

Quran is not written in a way to tell you, when it wants to misguide! Kindly note that!

The amthal that God put are clear to me, but I do notice most don't see it. For example, the repeated warnings of destruction of cities is supposed to awaken people to the final Messenger, the Mahdi (a), but people don't see it. There are even verses connecting it to the future such as "an example (mathalan) for the last people".

The stars reality in the spiritual realm and the family visited, most people don't see it though it's repeated. Those meant to be taken as missiles against Satanic magic and his forces, people don't see this big theme.

The examples of past succession and chosen families, people see it as irrelevant and subject of the past.

To me, it's not that God is unclear. It's that hearts are hard.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The amthal that God put are clear to me, but I do notice most don't see it. For example, the repeated warnings of destruction of cities is supposed to awaken people to the final Messenger, the Mahdi (a), but people don't see it. There are even verses connecting it to the future such as "an example (mathalan) for the last people".

The stars reality in the spiritual realm and the family visited, most people don't see it though it's repeated. Those meant to be taken as missiles against Satanic magic and his forces, people don't see this big theme.

The examples of past succession and chosen families, people see it as irrelevant and subject of the past.

To me, it's not that God is unclear. It's that hearts are hard.

See how you change the subject of what you were discussing. Jumping from one thing to something else.
You were saying, you cannot believe God could deceive. For example, you are saying, you cannot believe that God says, 50,000 years, but He meant it to pass in a moment.
I just showed you, how according to the Quran, God could do that, and why He has done that.
Destruction of cities is another subject dude. I had already showed you according to Hadithes the Land of Shaam (الشام) will be destroyed after rise of the Qaim. Which now you see how it is being fulfilled. Shaam is Syria and Palestine.
The problem is, you think, the destruction would happen when the Qaim is among people. And I had showed you how this understanding is false based on the Quran. God does not destruct the Lands, while a Messenger is still among mankind. Do you remember this verse of Quran?
Remember, when Jesus came, God ruined the Jewish Cities, quite some years after Jesus had left?
My beliefs are compatible with no contradictions. Your ideas are not compatible with Quran, Bible or Hadith in alot of cases.

 

[Link]

See how you change the subject of what you were discussing. Jumping from one thing to something else.
You were saying, you cannot believe God could deceive. For example, you are saying, you cannot believe that God says, 50,000 years, but He meant it to pass in a moment.
I just showed you, how according to the Quran, God could do that, and why He has done that.

I disagree which is why I was saying it's rather for clear things like warnings about destruction. Your interpretation from the verse is that God intends to misguide, but when Quran talks about God misguiding, it's not about him intentionally misguiding.

The Quran expresses itself as a clear book. And warns not to follow ambiguities from it as that would not be from the original book. But you go on to do that.

Your whole epistemology is a web of ambiguities.

 

[Link]

The problem is, you think, the destruction would happen when the Qaim is among people.

We went through this before. But there are verses that show Mecca could've been destroyed during Mohammad (s) life time were it not for certain things occurring.

And Lut (a) and other Messengers (a) - their people were destroyed in their lifetime. Suppose you are right about Isa (a) and punishment after, the type of warnings I'm talking about is not that type. It's the type where destructing occurs during the life of the Messenger and where he appoints a time for it in his life from God.

Let us see Surah Isra:

وَإِذَا أَرَدْنَا أَنْ نُهْلِكَ قَرْيَةً أَمَرْنَا مُتْرَفِيهَا فَفَسَقُوا فِيهَا فَحَقَّ عَلَيْهَا الْقَوْلُ فَدَمَّرْنَاهَا تَدْمِيرًا | And when We desire to destroy a town We command its affluent ones [to obey Allah]. But they commit transgression in it, and so the word becomes due against it, and We destroy it utterly. | Al-Israa : 16

وَكَمْ أَهْلَكْنَا مِنَ الْقُرُونِ مِنْ بَعْدِ نُوحٍ ۗ وَكَفَىٰ بِرَبِّكَ بِذُنُوبِ عِبَادِهِ خَبِيرًا بَصِيرًا | And how many cities We have destroyed since Noah! Your Lord is sufficient as [a witness who is] well aware and percipient of His servants’ sins. | Al-Israa : 17

وَإِنْ مِنْ قَرْيَةٍ إِلَّا نَحْنُ مُهْلِكُوهَا قَبْلَ يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ أَوْ مُعَذِّبُوهَا عَذَابًا شَدِيدًا ۚ كَانَ ذَٰلِكَ فِي الْكِتَابِ مَسْطُورًا | And there is not a town but We will destroy it before the Day of Resurrection, or punish it with a severe punishment. That has been written in the Book. | Al-Israa : 58

وَإِنْ كَادُوا لَيَسْتَفِزُّونَكَ مِنَ الْأَرْضِ لِيُخْرِجُوكَ مِنْهَا ۖ وَإِذًا لَا يَلْبَثُونَ خِلَافَكَ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا | They were about to hound you out of the land, to expel you from it, but then they would not have stayed after you but a little. | Al-Israa : 76

سُنَّةَ مَنْ قَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا قَبْلَكَ مِنْ رُسُلِنَا ۖ وَلَا تَجِدُ لِسُنَّتِنَا تَحْوِيلًا | A precedent concerning those We have sent before you from among Our apostles, and you will not find any change in Our precedent. | Al-Israa : 77

Verse 17:58 you make it about some sort of spiritual punishment but that is to take the verse out of it's place. The place with the all the verses through Quran emphasizing on physical destruction of cities, is that is what is meant as a warning.

The problem with you is that it doesn't matter how Quran is clear regarding anything. You change words and don't care.

 

[salatalert]

From an Islamic perspective, while we respect each other’s religions and coexist peacefully, Islam maintains that there is one truth, as conveyed through the Qur'an and the final messenger, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). The Qur'an states, “There is no compulsion in religion” (Qur'an 2:256), which allows for the freedom to choose one's faith, but it also emphasizes that Islam is the final and complete message sent by Allah (Qur'an 33:40).
Islam encourages kindness, fairness, and dialogue with people of different faiths (Qur'an 60:8). However, this acceptance of differences does not mean that all religions are viewed as equally valid paths to salvation. Muslims believe in maintaining their faith while respecting others, as Allah is the ultimate judge.
Regarding prayer timings, Islam commands the performance of five daily prayers at specific times, which are divinely prescribed to help maintain a spiritual connection throughout the day. Muslims are required to pray at Fajr, Dhuhr, Asr, Maghrib, and Isha, with each time aligned with the position of the sun. These timings foster discipline and remind Muslims of their faith amidst daily activities, reinforcing that Islam is a comprehensive way of life. Accepting different beliefs does not change the obligation to adhere to these pillars of Islam.
In summary, Islam promotes peaceful coexistence and respect for others, but it also upholds the belief that the Islamic path is the truth while committing to the daily prayers as a foundational practice of the faith.

4o

 

[Audie]

From an Islamic perspective, while we respect each other’s religions and coexist peacefully, Islam maintains that there is one truth, as conveyed through the Qur'an and the final messenger, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). The Qur'an states, “There is no compulsion in religion” (Qur'an 2:256), which allows for the freedom to choose one's faith, but it also emphasizes that Islam is the final and complete message sent by Allah (Qur'an 33:40).
Islam encourages kindness, fairness, and dialogue with people of different faiths (Qur'an 60:8). However, this acceptance of differences does not mean that all religions are viewed as equally valid paths to salvation. Muslims believe in maintaining their faith while respecting others, as Allah is the ultimate judge.
Regarding prayer timings, Islam commands the performance of five daily prayers at specific times, which are divinely prescribed to help maintain a spiritual connection throughout the day. Muslims are required to pray at Fajr, Dhuhr, Asr, Maghrib, and Isha, with each time aligned with the position of the sun. These timings foster discipline and remind Muslims of their faith amidst daily activities, reinforcing that Islam is a comprehensive way of life. Accepting different beliefs does not change the obligation to adhere to these pillars of Islam.
In summary, Islam promotes peaceful coexistence and respect for others, but it also upholds the belief that the Islamic path is the truth while committing to the daily prayers as a foundational practice of the faith.

4o

The last religion I’d believe can accept others is Islam,

Actions talk. Pretty words are nothing.

 

[Trailblazer]

Islam maintains that there is one truth, as conveyed through the Qur'an and the final messenger, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

Does that mean that you do not believe that any of the previous messengers, such as Jesus and Moses, taught the truth?
Does that mean that you do not believe that the Bible is the truth?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

The Qur'an states, “There is no compulsion in religion” (Qur'an 2:256), which allows for the freedom to choose one's faith, but it also emphasizes that Islam is the final and complete message sent by Allah (Qur'an 33:40).

Outsiders don't care what a religion's scriptures say. They care about what kind of people the religion generates and what affect that has on society and themselves. As @Audie noted, action speaks, not words contradicted by actions.

From an Islamic perspective, while we respect each other’s religions and coexist peacefully

That's not what the world has seen. Muslims were responsible for multiple airplane hijackings, embassy attacks, wars (Six Day War, Yom Kippur War), and currently, attacks on Israel coming from Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah in Lebanon, and Houthi in Yemen. AOnce again as Audie noted, your words mean nothing when the news contradicts them.

You might be a very good, kind, peaceful person, but you're promoting a religion best known for its atrocities, which are not limited to war and terrorism. Islam is also known for honor killings of women, pushing people off of towers, cutting off hands, stonings, burning people alive in cages, and female genital mutilation. The Taliban oppresses girls and women in Afghanistan, and Iran oppresses women for things like singing in public.

All of that contradicts your claim above.

 

[Audie]

Outsiders don't care what a religion's scriptures say. They care about what kind of people the religion generates and what affect that has on society and themselves. As @Audie noted, action speaks, not words contradicted by actions.

That's not what the world has seen. Muslims were responsible for multiple airplane hijackings, embassy attacks, wars (Six Day War, Yom Kippur War), and currently, attacks on Israel coming from Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah in Lebanon, and Houthi in Yemen. AOnce again as Audie noted, your words mean nothing when the news contradicts them.

You might be a very good, kind, peaceful person, but you're promoting a religion best known for its atrocities, which are not limited to war and terrorism. Islam is also known for honor killings of women, pushing people off of towers, cutting off hands, stonings, burning people alive in cages, and female genital mutilation. The Taliban oppresses girls and women in Afghanistan, and Iran oppresses women for things like singing in public.

All of that contradicts your claim above.

Kind wonderful people, friendly as can be.

 

[Link]

Outsiders don't care what a religion's scriptures say. They care about what kind of people the religion generates and what affect that has on society and themselves. As @Audie noted, action speaks, not words contradicted by actions.

That's not what the world has seen. Muslims were responsible for multiple airplane hijackings, embassy attacks, wars (Six Day War, Yom Kippur War), and currently, attacks on Israel coming from Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah in Lebanon, and Houthi in Yemen. AOnce again as Audie noted, your words mean nothing when the news contradicts them.

You might be a very good, kind, peaceful person, but you're promoting a religion best known for its atrocities, which are not limited to war and terrorism. Islam is also known for honor killings of women, pushing people off of towers, cutting off hands, stonings, burning people alive in cages, and female genital mutilation. The Taliban oppresses girls and women in Afghanistan, and Iran oppresses women for things like singing in public.

All of that contradicts your ' claim above.

I will keep short and clean: those who believe in propaganda of the devil that they see best humans as the worse and vice versa, and trust words of deceivers over God and the truthful guides sent by God and their supporters, deserve hell forever, and they are the source of all suffering in both worlds.

 

[firedragon]

So Christians would accept Buddha and Muhammad, Buddhists would accept Christ and Baha’is etc

It's impossible. In Islam God is one. Singular. In Christianity it's a Trinity. A Godhead. In the Bahai faith all Christ and Muhammed both are manifestations of God which is blasphemy according to Islam.

This could never be done.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I will keep short and clean: those who believe in propaganda of the devil that they see best humans as the worse and vice versa, and trust words of deceivers over God and the truthful guides sent by God and their supporters, deserve hell forever, and they are the source of all suffering in both worlds.

My words above regarding the public face of Islam were based not in other people's opinions, but on the things I see in the news:

Hundreds watch as Isis burns caged sex slaves to death
Honor killing - Wikipedia
ISIS Hurls Gay Men Off Buildings, Stones Them: Analysts
Stoning and Hand Cutting—Understanding the Hudud and the Shariah in Islam | Yaqeen Institute for Islamic Research

You didn't try to explain why I shouldn't judge Islam in part by those acts. Instead, you called my claims propaganda, called the people who do the things I named "best humans," implied that I was evil and deserving eternal damnation, and said that people like me are the source of all suffering. Do you not know that that also affects my opinion of your religion and what it teaches you, and that it's not due to the devil or propaganda, but rather, your words?

I understand that you are in an undesirable position. You have accepted what you've been taught about your religion being one of peace, love, and justice despite just saying that I deserve eternal damnation for pointing out where it is none of those things (I don't see peace, love, or justice there). You don't like reading unflattering accounts of Islam, but the fact is that the world is filled with religious atrocities, and yours is responsible for many of them. It put those thoughts you just expressed into your head and made you think that it was appropriate to express them in a public forum. You probably feel good about your words and can't see why anybody would object to them or think less of you or the institution that taught you that.

You won't see anything like that coming from this atheistic humanist despite your opinions being just as unacceptable to me as mine are to you, because I don't have a religion to teach me to think like that. Instead, I go by my untutored conscience and what it tells me is the proper way to treat people, which doesn't include demonizing them or wishing eternal suffering on them.

Incidentally, maybe people say short and clean somewhere, but I've never heard it except perhaps in reference to fingernails. Short and sweet is what I believe that you were looking for: Definition of SHORT AND SWEET

 

[Audie]

I disagree which is why I was saying it's rather for clear things like warnings about destruction. Your interpretation from the verse is that God intends to misguide, but when Quran talks about God misguiding, it's not about him intentionally misguiding.

The Quran expresses itself as a clear book. And warns not to follow ambiguities from it as that would not be from the original book. But you go on to do that.

Your whole epistemology is a web of ambiguities.

It was quite clear to the boys of 911

 

[loverofhumanity]

It's impossible. In Islam God is one. Singular. In Christianity it's a Trinity. A Godhead. In the Bahai faith all Christ and Muhammed both are manifestations of God which is blasphemy according to Islam.

This could never be done.

The spiritual teachings the virtues are taught by all religions and they can be accepted by anyone. The laws and social teachings differ according to the age and the people they were given to. So it’s easy to accept the Quran and Muhammad just not the interpretations and man made doctrines.

 

[firedragon]

The spiritual teachings the virtues are taught by all religions and they can be accepted by anyone. The laws and social teachings differ according to the age and the people they were given to. So it’s easy to accept the Quran and Muhammad just not the interpretations and man made doctrines.

Yeah. That's irrelevant to what I said. But thanks.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's impossible. In Islam God is one. Singular. In Christianity it's a Trinity. A Godhead. In the Bahai faith all Christ and Muhammed both are manifestations of God which is blasphemy according to Islam.

This could never be done.

Yet many Muslims have already done this, ever since the late 1800's, thus your observations are already proven incorrect.

Also many people of all Faiths have also done this, so it is not only possible, it is inevitable.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It was quite clear to the boys of 911

Misguided criminals come from all facets of life, from those that claim a faith they do not practice, from Atheists that have no Faith.

God's fundamental law is thou shall not Kill is bound to all Faiths. This principle is killing outside the Law.

The world is full of this, America has also acted outside international law in its military pursuits. All Nations have done this in one way or another. Some make laws to justify unjust murder based on predudices, yet break international laws in the process.

No one alive today, can cast the first stone.

Regards Tony