What if we accepted each others Religion?

[CG Didymus]

I see this is a new way of looking at the age old concepts CG. If we look at past religions, Muhammad gave a list of past Messengers, Buddhism has a line of Buddha's, some Hindu practices have a line of Avatars, we have the biblical line of prophets and Baha'u'llah has given a line of Messengers.

Okay, Muhammad's list... What did he call them? Prophets? Manifestations of God?

Who are in this line of Buddhas? Are they called Manifestations of God or Enlightened Ones?

And who is on this Hindu list of Avatars? And are they Manifestations of God or Incarnations of Vishnu or one of the other Gods?

Yes, there's lots of prophets in the Bible. Was Adam or Noah, or Abraham considered to be one of the prophets? And were any of the prophets considered by Jews to be Manifestations of God? And do Jews even consider Moses a Manifestation of God?

The beliefs of the different religions don't have to fit into the beliefs of the Baha'i Faith. And I think the only reason Baha'is try to make them fit is to support their doctrine of progressive revelation.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Essential steps for true acceptance are (IMO):
1) believe all major religions are a valid way to "God"
2) do not believe your Religion/Savior is superior than of the other

In below youtube they claim the Pope has said:
"All Religions are a way to reach God"

Below articles had some positive views on this:
1)
Did Pope Francis say that all religions are equal? Here’s what the Catholic Church teaches. Francis created a stir,languages that express the divine.”

2)

Pope Francis: Don’t be afraid that God has allowed different religions in the world

"What God wants is fraternity among us."

www.americamagazine.org

Hi stvdv.

That’s spiritual maturity, to see all people as part of one human family and it is God’s greatest wish according to Baha’u’llah.

He Who is your Lord, the All-Merciful, cherisheth in His heart the desire of beholding the entire human race as one soul and one body (Baha’u’llah)

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Does it have a means to sort by chronological order Tony?

I touched on your link and the stories appeared in random order making it difficult to find stories on or about Saturday, October 12, 1912 in San Francisco, Chicago.

You definitely want it all laid out in a red carpet.

I work full time, I am building extensions, I have a garden to tend to in 40 deg heat, so I will look at some time, but I am lunch at the moment.

Regards Tony

 

[stvdv]

Hi stvdv.

That’s spiritual maturity, to see all people as part of one human family and it is God’s greatest wish according to Baha’u’llah.

He Who is your Lord, the All-Merciful, cherisheth in His heart the desire of beholding the entire human race as one soul and one body (Baha’u’llah)

Even the Bible makes this clear:
Love God
Love Thy neighbor
Love Thyself
+
All are God's Children

Hurt anyone = Hurt the Divine

Lack of empathy is the cause being unable to experience this

How to increase your empathy:
1) Don't kill other humans
2) Don't kill (eat) animals
3) Don't harm humans
4) Don't harm animals

Gradually empathy grows
First step towards World Peace

 

[danieldemol]

You definitely want it all laid out in a red carpet.

Considering the difficulty of sorting papers in randomised order and that it was your claim it seems fair to me to request you to do your own homework Tony.

I work full time, I am building extensions, I have a garden to tend to in 40 deg heat, so I will look at some time, but I am lunch at the moment.

Regards Tony

Ok, take your time. And enjoy lunch.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Does it have a means to sort by chronological order Tony?

I touched on your link and the stories appeared in random order making it difficult to find stories on or about Saturday, October 12, 1912 in San Francisco, Chicago.

It appears when you find and Ocrober 12 article and click on it, it takes you to the San Francisco part of the Journey. Maybe the links below are the related articles.

San Francisco

In the early morning hours of Thursday, October 3rd, 1912 ‘Abdu’l-Bahá and His entourage arrived at the spacious house that had been rented for Him at 1815 California Street, in San Francisco. This house became the base of operations for ‘Abdu’l-Bahá’s many visitors, His speaking engagements...

centenary.bahai.us

The links in the article only.

I found if you open a clippings page and search October, relevant articles around that time come up. The talk being October the 12th. Thus that date and a few weeks on.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

It appears when you find and Ocrober 12 article and click on it, it takes you to the San Francisco part of the Journey. Maybe the links below are the related articles.

San Francisco

In the early morning hours of Thursday, October 3rd, 1912 ‘Abdu’l-Bahá and His entourage arrived at the spacious house that had been rented for Him at 1815 California Street, in San Francisco. This house became the base of operations for ‘Abdu’l-Bahá’s many visitors, His speaking engagements...

centenary.bahai.us

The links in the article only.

I found if you open a clippings page and search October, relevant articles around that time come up. The talk being October the 12th. Thus that date and a few weeks on.

Regards Tony

I think I got to the bottom of the matter thanks Tony.

It seems from the news paper that Rabbi Martin A Meyer gave Abdul'baha a warm welcome to Temple Emmanu-el, so I wondered why a Jewish leader would give Abdul-Baha a warm welcome to speak to his Jewish congregation.

It lead me to do a bit of googling on the Rabbi and I found this;

Rabbi Martin Meyer Hosts ‘Abdu’l-Bahá at Temple Emanu-El

‘Abdu’l-Bahá delivers a challenging speech to the Reform Jewish congregation at San Francisco’s largest synagogue.

239days.com

Turns out his congregation was reform Jewish and rather culturally syncretic, "They knew little about Jewish rites and artifacts, and too many of them celebrated Christmas and Easter, but not Hanukkah or The Passover..."

I think that goes a long way to explaining why Abdul-Baha received such a warm welcome to a Jewish Temple - the Reform Jews seem to be a more liberal bunch than the Orthodox Jews, and that particular congregation was already partly culturally Christianised in my view.

 

[oldbadger]

What if we accepted each others Religion?​

Firstly I am only referring to the major religions.

Oh dear.........debating suicide at first sentence.

Baha'i does not and did not accept Shia Islam, did it?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I think I got to the bottom of the matter thanks Tony.

It seems from the news paper that Rabbi Martin A Meyer gave Abdul'baha a warm welcome to Temple Emmanu-el, so I wondered why a Jewish leader would give Abdul-Baha a warm welcome to speak to his Jewish congregation.

It lead me to do a bit of googling on the Rabbi and I found this;

Rabbi Martin Meyer Hosts ‘Abdu’l-Bahá at Temple Emanu-El

‘Abdu’l-Bahá delivers a challenging speech to the Reform Jewish congregation at San Francisco’s largest synagogue.

239days.com

Turns out his congregation was reform Jewish and rather culturally syncretic, "They knew little about Jewish rites and artifacts, and too many of them celebrated Christmas and Easter, but not Hanukkah or The Passover..."

I think that goes a long way to explaining why Abdul-Baha received such a warm welcome to a Jewish Temple - the Reform Jews seem to be a more liberal bunch than the Orthodox Jews, and that particular congregation was already partly culturally Christianised in my view.

Please consider that is not the only Jewish establishment Abdul'baha talked at.

A good point to consider is that the person most open to the Oneness of God and Humanity, will also be more open to the advice Abdul'baha offered in all His talks across America and Europe.

Orthodoxy has always been the downfall of religions, it is the Orthodox that have persecuted the Messengers.

I see that the Baha'i Faith will suffer the same fate in a distant future, first there will be a lesser peace and then the Most Great Peace.

The conflicts the world now faces, appears to be the foretold events that will produce great change, that will coincide with an event that changes the world overnight. When? 1 month, 1 year, 10 years? 100 years?

It could be our interpretation of what Baha'u'llah said will happen, is not a correct interpretation, but bother Abdul'baha and Shoghi Effendi have interpreted that the change will be rapid, at a time when humanity is attacking each other like bloodthirsty beasts. Shoghi Effendi said it would be during a 3rd world conflict.

Whatever happens, stay well and safe danieldemol, as many challenges will unfold.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

Please consider that is not the only Jewish establishment Abdul'baha talked at.

Well if he spoke at Orthodox establishments it would be interesting to know what their reactions were and why if possible, but it seems like a lot of hard work. Perhaps a discussion for another day.

A good point to consider is that the person most open to the Oneness of God and Humanity, will also be more open to the advice Abdul'baha offered in all His talks across America and Europe.

This comes to a point @CG Didymus
seems to make about liberal peoples of each faith being more attracted to the Baha'i principles than their Orthodox counterparts - until they discover the Baha'i faith is just another Orthodoxy in my view.

Orthodoxy has always been the downfall of religions, it is the Orthodox that have persecuted the Messengers.

Ironic considering Shoghi Effendi turned the Baha'i faith into an Orthodoxy in my view.

Whatever happens, stay well and safe danieldemol, as many challenges will unfold.

Regards Tony

I'll do my best Tony, and likewise.

 

[YoursTrue]

What if we accepted each others Religion?​

Oh dear.........debating suicide at first sentence.

Baha'i does not and did not accept Shia Islam, did it?

Did it?

 

[CG Didymus]

What if we accepted each others Religion?​

Oh dear.........debating suicide at first sentence.

Baha'i does not and did not accept Shia Islam, did it?

Does the Baha'i Faith accept the conservative, fundamentalist side of any major religion? And what does it mean to "accept" them? Agree that their beliefs and doctrines are true? Baha'is don't do that.

 

[CG Didymus]

This comes to a point @CG Didymus
seems to make about liberal peoples of each faith being more attracted to the Baha'i principles than their Orthodox counterparts - until they discover the Baha'i faith is just another Orthodoxy in my view.

My Baha'i friends were very liberal Baha'is. And it caused problems with those Baha'is in leadership positions. One of them had set everything up to have a Reggae Band play at the San Diego Baha'i Center. I don't remember who gave him the impression that it was going to be okayed by the LSA... but it wasn't.

 

[danieldemol]

My Baha'i friends were very liberal Baha'is. And it caused problems with those Baha'is in leadership positions. One of them had set everything up to have a Reggae Band play at the San Diego Baha'i Center. I don't remember who gave him the impression that it was going to be okayed by the LSA... but it wasn't.

I'm not sure but I think they generally take a more liberal approach to what plays at a Baha'i centre here in Australia, although if you want to play your band at a Baha'i temple as opposed to a Baha'i centre that's another story.

But then if I recall they let Indians play the Sitar at the Lotus temple in Delhi, so there may be different rules enforced at different locations.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What if we accepted each others Religion?​

Oh dear.........debating suicide at first sentence.

Baha'i does not and did not accept Shia Islam, did it?

The Two forerunners, The Bab the 18 letters of the living and Baha'u'llah all came from the Shia line. Baha'u'llah maintained going to the Mosque all through His exiles.

Why would we reject Shia Islam. We embrace the Quran and the Bible.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

The Two forerunners, The Bab the 18 letters of the living and Baha'u'llah all came from the Shia line. Baha'u'llah maintained going to the Mosque all through His exiles.

Why would we reject Shia Islam. We embrace the Quran and the Bible.

Regards Tony

Perhaps @oldbadger Meant Sunni Islam is rejected?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Perhaps @oldbadger Meant Sunni Islam is rejected?

Most Likely. Muhammad and the Qur'an are embraced, just a Jesus and the Bible are.

All branches of Islam and all branches of Christianity use the Book we embrace.

Some doctrines need to be rejected, just as Muhammad told Christianity to cease with the Trinity, Baha'u'llah's message makes us aware of other false doctrines, thus not the whole faith is rejected.

Regards Tony

 

[ChatwithGod]

What a beautiful vision of unity and respect! Embracing teachings from various faiths can indeed enrich one's spiritual journey. A favorite verse that resonates with this idea is from 1 Corinthians 13:13, "And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love." Imagine how love could transform our world if we truly lived by this principle across all faiths.

 

[CG Didymus]

I'm not sure but I think they generally take a more liberal approach to what plays at a Baha'i centre here in Australia, although if you want to play your band at a Baha'i temple as opposed to a Baha'i centre that's another story.

But then if I recall they let Indians play the Sitar at the Lotus temple in Delhi, so there may be different rules enforced at different locations.

I think the problem was that the LSA didn't want people to think that the Baha'i Faith "accepts" people that have dark skin, dreadlocks, play electric guitars and drums and smoke pot.

I can see that. They want to project a certain image. Now a dark skinned man in a nice suit and short hair that's a doctor giving a talk on the oneness of humanity... that would be okay.

 

[CG Didymus]

Muhammad and the Qur'an are embraced, just a Jesus and the Bible are.

All branches of Islam and all branches of Christianity use the Book we embrace.

What is meant by "embrace"? I know you use the quote about the Bible being a "sure" guide. But the Baha'is don't use it as a "sure" guide.

What a beautiful vision of unity and respect! Embracing teachings from various faiths can indeed enrich one's spiritual journey.

Please read the fine print.

Some doctrines need to be rejected, just as Muhammad told Christianity to cease with the Trinity, Baha'u'llah's message makes us aware of other false doctrines, thus not the whole faith is rejected.

Some doctrines need to be rejected? You mean those based on verses directly out of the New Testament?

Satan, hell, the resurrection, the Creation story and Flood and so many more things are told as if they are true, historical events. What would you expect people to do, but believe them?

Not until the Baha'i Faith comes along as tells people that those things were actual historical events. And things like Satan, hell, and the resurrection were symbolic.

But Baha'i beliefs will cause unity between people of all races and religions... once they reject believing their old religion as being literally true. And instead start believing what the Baha'i Faith teaches. Which... I don't really see the Baha'i Faith as "accepting" or "embracing" the old religions. But rather... saying they do and then rejecting the things that they don't believe are true about them.

And that's alright with me. I reject some of the beliefs of all the religions. There's some things that are true and some things that don't sound true. But that includes the Baha'i Faith. Whereas Baha'is act as if their stuff is the absolute truth. And you don't believe any other religions, but yours, has the absolute truth. For Baha'is, they all have some things that need to be rejected. And it is misleading to keep pretending that Baha'is "accept" all other religions.