Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
Sounds a lot like how I operate. I can't remember which were laid reversed. It wasn't the hanged man. I think it was the knight of cups that was reversed. The magician and/or hermit would have been laid down normal.
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What if we accepted each others Religion?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
Sounds a lot like how I operate. I can't remember which were laid reversed. It wasn't the hanged man. I think it was the knight of cups that was reversed. The magician and/or hermit would have been laid down normal.
ppp
Well-Known Member
In other words,
What tangible institutional action of practical value have the Baha'i ever performed any group other than the Baha'i?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Yes, I don't think they want to get labelled as radicals or protesters. One Baha'i was talking as if the people of the world should all get up and stop Russia from invading Ukraine. So, I asked why doesn't he and other Baha'is lead the way. They could stand in the roads blocking the tanks. I don't think he responded to that post.
Now protesting a war is one thing, but what are they going to do about abortion and Gay Rights? To be true to their religion, I would think they would have to be against abortion... and join the "pro-life" protesters. And in a march for Gay marriage, Baha'is would have to be against that and say that they believe that God says that marriage is between one man and one woman.
But doing stuff like that, really getting out there and showing the world what they really believe, would get them a lot of negative press. Zero press and keeping a low profile is much better for them.
ppp
Well-Known Member
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Right. I think of that as Venn Diagram tolerance.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Even with this OP... I could say, "Yeah, all religions are true. They all lead us to God and to heaven!" But where are the Baha'is?
They say, "Well, we believe in their original teachings. But they screwed them up so bad nothing is left of those original, pure teachings."
So, I ask, "Wait a minute... Are you saying that they no longer have the truth? Then... What is it that you want me to accept about them?"
Here's a couple of quotes from Abdul Baha' and Shoghi Effendi, the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith...
The founder of Buddhism was a wonderful soul. He established the Oneness of God, but later the original principles of His doctrines gradually disappeared, and ignorant customs and ceremonials arose and increased until they finally ended in the worship of statues and images . . . So it is with religions; through the passing of time they change from their original foundation, the truth of the Religion of God entirely departs, and the spirit of it does not stay; heresies appear, and it becomes a body without a soul.
The Buddha was a Manifestation of God, like Christ, but His followers do not possess His authentic writings.
Shoghi Effendi, The Compilation of Compilations vol. I, p. 21
So ahh... What am I supposed to be accepting? They don't have authentic writings? And the original principles have disappeared?
And, for Baha'is, Christianity is probably worse. Once they made Jesus God, forget about it. Baha'is tell me that ain't true, so I'm not accepting anything Christians tell me.
All I know is that I can trust the Baha'is... Oops, they're the ones telling me I should accept all those other religions?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Now this clears it up. That's going a long way back in this thread. But that's the answer.
No, don't believe just anything those other religions tell me. But I should listen first to the Baha'is... They will tell me what is true and what is false in all those other religions. Then, accept those things.
And once I do that, it will become obvious that all religions are one and have all come from the one true God. Geez, it's like a lightbulb just turned on in my brain.
Duh, whatever the Baha'is say is true. They are the ones that have the current and true information from an unknowable and invisible God that they say spoke to their prophet.
Whew, glad that's cleared up. Now how do I know this God is real? Oh yeah, the Baha'i prophet said so. And how do I know he is telling me the truth? Because he was sent by God. And how do I know God sent him? Because the Baha'i prophet said so.
Okie dokie... I guess?
The quandary is all yours to sort out CG.
The key is in these statements.
"The founder of Buddhism was a wonderful soul. He established the Oneness of God"
"The Buddha was a Manifestation of God, like Christ"
With that knowledge both Christians and Muslims can embrace Buddha. Same as Krishna and Zoroaster.
Now all one has to do is look for the good on those that practice these Faiths.
1 Thessalonians 5:21 but test everything that is said. Hold on to what is good.
Regards Tony
1 Thessalonians 5:21 but test everything; hold fast what is good. 21 but test everything that is said. Hold on to what is good.
Regards Tony
God came in many Names and Attributes to many different people. (Example)
Applications in Philosophy and Psychology:
Philosophers and psychologists have long drawn upon the elephant metaphor to explore the nature of truth, perception, and knowledge. In epistemology, the metaphor illustrates the concept of perspectivism, which acknowledges that truth may be subjective and dependent on one's viewpoint. In psychology, it underscores the importance of empathy and understanding diverse perspectives to foster communication and mutual understanding.
Regards Tony
The best peace movement, that can be promoted, is living a life as Baha'u'llah instructed us to do.
That does not stop people supporting worthy causes not associated with party politics.
Regards Tony
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Anyone who has lived in a Muslim country knows that you can save yourself the trouble of sending out about 1.5 billion invitations.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
With the elephant metaphor the blind men couldn't see the whole elephant, but they did physically feel the elephant.
With the invisible and unknowable God of the Baha'is, people are dependent on what the Baha'i Faith tells them about God.
Then the Baha'i Faith tells people what was really meant by the things said in the other religions.
Before the Baha'i Faith, there wasn't enough of that. Sure, Muhammad said that Jesus was not God. But did he clarify anything about Satan and hell?
The closest I can come to agreeing with Baha'is is to say that religions and religious thinking have evolved. But that's still a lot different than what Baha'is believe that it was a progression from one religion to the next.
For one religion to believe in karma and reincarnation is not them touching a part of the elephant. It's a different belief. It's how those people explain things.
Contrast that with Born Again Christians that believe we are all hopelessly lost sinners that can't do anything to save ourselves... But are dependent on Jesus. And only was qualified to pay the sin debt owed to God. They come up with how sin entered the world. And how the Law of Moses exposed the impossibility of anybody ever being able to be good enough to perfectly obey God's laws. All have fallen short. Then those that don't accept the free gift of salvation are condemned to hell. Those that accept it, even though they aren't perfect, they get to go to heaven because of Jesus' sacrifice.
Both religions have everything figured out, but neither one agrees with what Baha'is belief. That is not a progression.
According to the Baha'is, both of those religions are wrong. In the elephant metaphor, the blind men didn't know what the complete elephant looked like. But the part of the elephant they were touching was at least real and part of the whole animal.
And again, I'm not any sort of religious scholar and I can see holes in the beliefs and claims of the Baha'i Faith. Just white washing over them with a Baha'i interpretation doesn't make them go away.
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Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
What Christian beliefs about Jesus are not true?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Baha'is tweak a little bit of everything. Any verse that has something miraculous in it, most Baha'is take as being symbolic. Like with healing a blind person or bringing Lazarus from the dead... Baha'is have told that the person was "spiritually" blind and was made to see with "spiritual" eyes. And that Lazarus was "spiritually" dead, but Jesus made him "spiritually" alive.
But with Jesus specifically, they don't believe he is part of a Trinitarian God. So, for Baha'is, any Christian sect that believes that is wrong. The other main one is the belief that Jesus didn't physically rise from the dead. That too, was a "spiritual" resurrection.
Here's how Abdul Baha' put it...
Question: What is the meaning of Christ’s resurrection after three days?
Answer: The resurrection of the Manifestations of God is not of the body.
His resurrection from the bosom of the earth is a mystical matter and expresses a spiritual rather than a material condition. And His ascension to heaven, likewise, is spiritual and not material in nature.
Aside from this, it has been established by science that the material heaven is a limitless space, void and empty, wherein countless stars and planets move.
We explain, therefore, the meaning of Christ’s resurrection in the following way: After the martyrdom of Christ, the Apostles were perplexed and dismayed. The reality of Christ, which consists in His teachings, His bounties, His perfections, and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and had no outward appearance or manifestation—indeed, it was as though it were entirely lost. For those who truly believed were few in number, and even those few were perplexed and dismayed. The Cause of Christ was thus as a lifeless body. After three days the Apostles became firm and steadfast, arose to aid the Cause of Christ, resolved to promote the divine teachings and practise their Lord’s admonitions, and endeavoured to serve Him. Then did the reality of Christ become resplendent, His grace shine forth, His religion find new life, and His teachings and admonitions become manifest and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ, which was like unto a lifeless body, was quickened to life and surrounded by the grace of the Holy Spirit.
Such is the meaning of the resurrection of Christ, and this was a true resurrection.
‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Some Answered Questions, The Resurrection of Christ
‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Some Answered Questions, The Resurrection of Christ
Translated. Original Persian
So, for Baha'is, it's taking the stories in the Bible and NT too literally that's the problem.
The problem I have with them is then why not just say that those stories aren't true? But they don't want to go that far. To say that the stories are "symbolically" true just not "literally" true gives them a way to say that they believe in the Bible and the NT.
But what they are really saying and teaching is that their prophet is the return of Christ. And all Christians should turn to him and believe in him and follow him. But they don't stop there. They believe he is the promised one of every religion. So, all people should listen to him and believe in him.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Thanks, I guess.Baha'is tweak a little bit of everything. Any verse that has something miraculous in it, most Baha'is take as being symbolic. Like with healing a blind person or bringing Lazarus from the dead... Baha'is have told that the person was "spiritually" blind and was made to see with "spiritual" eyes. And that Lazarus was "spiritually" dead, but Jesus made him "spiritually" alive.
But with Jesus specifically, they don't believe he is part of a Trinitarian God. So, for Baha'is, any Christian sect that believes that is wrong. The other main one is the belief that Jesus didn't physically rise from the dead. That too, was a "spiritual" resurrection.
Here's how Abdul Baha' put it...
Question: What is the meaning of Christ’s resurrection after three days?Answer: The resurrection of the Manifestations of God is not of the body.His resurrection from the bosom of the earth is a mystical matter and expresses a spiritual rather than a material condition. And His ascension to heaven, likewise, is spiritual and not material in nature.Aside from this, it has been established by science that the material heaven is a limitless space, void and empty, wherein countless stars and planets move.We explain, therefore, the meaning of Christ’s resurrection in the following way: After the martyrdom of Christ, the Apostles were perplexed and dismayed. The reality of Christ, which consists in His teachings, His bounties, His perfections, and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and had no outward appearance or manifestation—indeed, it was as though it were entirely lost. For those who truly believed were few in number, and even those few were perplexed and dismayed. The Cause of Christ was thus as a lifeless body. After three days the Apostles became firm and steadfast, arose to aid the Cause of Christ, resolved to promote the divine teachings and practise their Lord’s admonitions, and endeavoured to serve Him. Then did the reality of Christ become resplendent, His grace shine forth, His religion find new life, and His teachings and admonitions become manifest and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ, which was like unto a lifeless body, was quickened to life and surrounded by the grace of the Holy Spirit.Such is the meaning of the resurrection of Christ, and this was a true resurrection.‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Some Answered Questions, The Resurrection of Christ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Some Answered Questions, The Resurrection of Christ
Translated. Original Persianoceanoflights.org
So, for Baha'is, it's taking the stories in the Bible and NT too literally that's the problem.
The problem I have with them is then why not just say that those stories aren't true? But they don't want to go that far. To say that the stories are "symbolically" true just not "literally" true gives them a way to say that they believe in the Bible and the NT.
But what they are really saying and teaching is that their prophet is the return of Christ. And all Christians should turn to him and believe in him and follow him. But they don't stop there. They believe he is the promised one of every religion. So, all people should listen to him and believe in him.
CG, your problem is with God and his Messages. That the scriptures contain more than one understanding is as old as scriptures themselvss, Baha'u'llah supports this, as did Judaism and Islam.
One such example
Seventy Faces of the Torah
That the Baha'i explore this, only shows they are sincere in finding the meaning of all the faces/meanings of God's Word, with absolutely no deception or ill intention on their part.
Sure you want to keep going with this path, based on your own doubts?
Regards Tony
I offer my reply to CG. That the meaning of Bible verses are not limited to what we may see the verses are saying.
God's Word has unlimited spiritual meanings that also can reflect different understandings to us as individuals. It is up to is to find those meanings.
Regards Tony
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Another such example:
“Know assuredly that just as thou firmly believest that the Word of God, exalted be His glory, endureth for ever, thou must, likewise, believe with undoubting faith that its meaning can never be exhausted. They who are its appointed interpreters, they whose hearts are the repositories of its secrets, are, however, the only ones who can comprehend its manifold wisdom. Whoso, while reading the Sacred Scriptures, is tempted to choose therefrom whatever may suit him with which to challenge the authority of the Representative of God among men, is, indeed, as one dead, though to outward seeming he may walk and converse with his neighbors, and share with them their food and their drink.”
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Which verses, in which Buddhist Scriptures does Buddha "establish" the Oneness of God?
But then there's this...
The Buddha was a Manifestation of God, like Christ, but His followers do not possess His authentic writings.
Shoghi Effendi, The Compilation of Compilations vol. I, p. 21
If they don't have the authentic writings of the Buddha, how do Baha'is know that he taught and established the oneness of God?